Hi, this is my first time on this forum so Hello. Myself and my partner are looking to get 2 beautiful boy rotweiler pups from a reputable breeders. Can anyone point us in the right direction. thanks  .

Please don't buy two puppies at the same time. No reputable breeder will sell you two anyway because they know how much more work it is to get two dogs adequately trained, especially such a large, powerful breed.

You (and the pup) would be far better to buy one pup and get it trained to the level that suits you before getting a second. That way you can give each the individual attention they deserve and there is less risk of serious fighting when they reach adolescence.

Contact the breed clubs for details of reputable breeders.
Breed Clubs and Societies

BRITISH ROTTWEILER ASSOC. Sec. Mrs M Yates. Tel No: 01403 253228
EASTERN COUNTIES ROTTWEILER CLUB. Sec. Mrs A E Fletcher. Tel No: 01773 832522
LONDON & SOUTH EAST ROTTWEILER CLUB. Sec. Mrs K Downsett. Tel No: 01702 556997
MIDLAND ROTTWEILER CLUB. Sec. Mrs J Blunden. Tel No: 01773 590126
NORTHERN IRELAND ROTTWEILER CLUB. Sec. Ms H McClay. Tel No: 07790 040262
NORTH OF ENGLAND ROTTWEILER CLUB. Sec. Mrs J Stevens. Tel No: 01492 641660
ROTTWEILER CLUB. Sec. Miss E Harrop (Acting). Tel No: 01673 843640
ROTTWEILER CLUB OF WALES. Sec. Mr Lewis. Tel No: 01443 674103
SCOTTISH ROTTWEILER CLUB. Sec. Mrs S Brown. Tel No: 0141 641 8690
SOUTH WESTERN ROTTWEILER ASSOC. Sec Miss M Derbyshire. Tel No: 0117 971 6904

so are you saying that i should give 100% attention to the singular pup, implying thats what is needed, rather than having two at the same time and bringing them up together as a unit ?

The trouble is that both pups need 100% attention! Bringing two puppies up 'as a unit' means that they bond with each other (their own species) rather than you, which makes them much more difficult to train. You need to train each puppy as an individual away from his brother, and then train them together as a pair - so that's triple the time needed for training - that includes walks of course. Then when they reach adolescence you get sibling rivalry and possibly very serious hierarchical fights.

Hi Samantha, welcome to the forum.

I agree with JG, don't get two at the same time! You'd be asking for trouble Two babies are lovely but they will very soon grow into big, boisterous boys! Its is extremely hard to train two youngsters at the same time, my boys are only a year apart, I wish I'd waited for an even bigger gap between them! But my boys are a toy breed, yours will be a large powerful working breed that will need to learn good manners as soon as possible.

Just get one, train him, love him and enjoy him maybe in the future think about a second :D

Good luck

Lins xx

Just adding another voice to agree with JG and hebeboots. Unless you have huge amounts of time to devote to each pup separately they would be much more likely to bond to each other than you. It's very, very hard to train two puppies at once. One of them will leave you exhausted. I have two years between my older dog and my puppy and I only felt confident about getting the puppy because the two year old is so steady and well trained.

Any rottie breeder that would sell you two pups, particularly male rotties, at the same time would be one that I would run away from as fast as I could. Get one pup from a reputable breeder and devote your time to bringing him up properly. You'll be much happier in the end.

so basically the only reasons there seem to be thats against my idea of two is that its "hard" and "tiring" ?

i would have thought anyone that took on a pup, or even a child, would be prepared for "hard" work ?

or has someone got a bonified fact that gives good reason not to pursue 2 pups, rotties???

Dedicated time is not a problem, myself and my partner are MASSIVE animal lovers, and between us have had many dogs in our lives since children, so as far as input is concerned towords the new arrival (s) there is no question !

so what im looking for is WHY this is a bad idea, nothing to do with it bein hard work or such like

Dont get me wrong, im not bein stubborn, but im lookin for sound factual advice, not opinions

We will be moving into a new house shortly, and the , hopefully, 2 pups will be our family

thanks

Lee ( sams partner )

No, it's not just an issue of time. Aggression problems can occur when you have multiple dogs that are too close in size, age and sex. That does depend on the dogs involved and their personalities. I know one very good rottie breeder who won't sell a male pup to anyone who already has a male rottie in the home of any age. She would cut her arm off before she sold two male pups together. Find a reputable breeder and discuss it with them.

Two brothers, or other dogs close in age and size can be a real problem when they start sorting out the hierachy between themselves. Like I said my boys (half brothers) are a year apart and the younger one is really going for leadership status.. they can have some very ugly encounters. It is part of the process and they will sort it out, but they are toy breeds that haven't actually damaged each other because they are easy to deal with when they argue. If you get two at the same time, they will be pretty much equal in size, age, and very genetically matched. I certainly wouldn't want to be the one in the way if they had a set to!! I have a client who has recently had to re-home one of her litter brothers as the fights became too horrendous with one brother hospitalising the other too many times
No-one is saying don't get two to be a kill-joy just to fore-warn you of the potentially serious problems you could end up with

I would also add that as they get older you may well have dominance issues developing between them, as they will both hit the "terrible teens" at the same time, with hormones running riot. I would never advise anyone to get 2 pups together, especially 2 males of a breed such as Rotties (I have Dobes) and I have a friend who has problems with 2 cocker spaniel brothers, so not just a problem encountered with the "guarding" breeds.

Sorry I'm another one who would say do not get two together and I would hope that many Rottie breeders would be in agreement!

I would also say not to get two at the same time, although you may have lots of time to spend with the puppies, the puppies will spend a lot of time playing with each other and you become a secondary consideration to them. You will need to spend a lot of time with each puppy individually to ensure that each gets training time and you have no way of knowing what will happen when they become mature and dominance becomes an issue. It has also been pointed out on the forum before that having two dogs of the same age may well mean that you are in the position of losing your both companions around the same time.

It really isn't anything to do with the breed that makes me say this, others will have more experience of Rotties than I do, my friend got two labs, litter brothers, who are at best half trained because the dogs spent more time playing with each other and generally messing about rather than bonding with their owner.

Its your decision in the end but I do think it is sensible advice.

Speaking as a breeder.... I would hope that no responsible breeder would ever sell anyone 2 pups together.. I certainly wouldnt.. although have been asked on a couple of occassions....

Also.. my last 3 litters over 3.5 years... I have kept 2 pups from each litter... these pups are seperated from each other at 8 weeks (as if going to seperate homes)... they are allowed short intervals of interactive play but thats it... they live seperately, sleep in different rooms.. walked, trained, well.. literally do everything seperately... they need to bond with ME, not each other...

Puppies will 'pack up'... they will form a strong bond.. sadly usually a protective bond towards each other.. you will be the outcast... this means, that in a situation where you need to step in, THEY WONT allow it.. you will be the intruder.. and in certain situations this could be a disaster..

Normally I wont allow a pup to go to a new home even as a singleton, where there is another dog under 2.5years old... hormones still havent settled and leadership issues are common...

Many multidog households have around 3 - 5 years between bringing pups in.. and those already in situ... ie:bred there.. are seperated.. each pup being partnered off with an older, settled adult....

I hope this helps you to understand a little more about the Why's.. not just training issues etc...

Yes I would agree I have found the least problems with the longer age gaps.  Most of mine are three years apart, but two are two years and four years.  the two year gap needed a bit of intervention when then youngster was pushing her Mum.

Interestingly enough the best relationships in my home were/are between grandmother and grandaughter pairs, I am guessing with 6 or so years between each otehr they don't have any issues with each other and don't feel they need to make a point.

If you are really set on having two dogs at the same time soon then I would get yourself an adult bitch through rescue now. 

Wait about 6 months for her to settle in and reach the level of trust and training you will need for her to be a good example for a puppy.

You can then search fro a reputable breeder through one of the breed clubs and put your name down for a well bred male pup.

Because of the gap in ages of a few years and the elder being a bitch they are likely to be just the right balance to each other, and adult bitches are very good at teaching male pups their manners.

Just red Brainless post, she's right that this would be the best way to have two dogs quickly - if you're set on that. And adult bitch and a dog puppy should work well, as long as the bitch has time to settle into her new home first and time for you to make sure she doesn't have any undesirable habits to pass on...dogs always copy the bad habits :D

Hi Sam and Lee, I can understand that you want two pups together, that will play together and that you can each have a dog to walk etc but from personal experience I wouldn't recommend it at all. The problem is not that it's hard work, as you say any puppy is hard work. The problem is that having two pups close together in age they tend to bond with each other more than with you. I've owned multiple dogs for 20 years, of a large breed, and have competed successfully in obedience and breed showing so would consider myself a reasonable handler. 7 years ago I got two litter brothers, I couldn't decide between them and didn't think it would be a problem. These two dogs were (and in some ways still are) an absolute nightmare. Usually with a very young pup that's just finished it's jags you an take it straight out and let it off its lead (even before it's had much in the way of training) and it's still insecure enough to follow you everywhere - with two they'll look to each other for security and you'll be left alone in the middle of a field calling vainly and hoping they come back! At puppy classes they'll want to play with each other instead of listening to you. Mine of course both reached their stroppy teenage stage together and fought all the time. When they weren't fighting with each other they turned their attentions on the world at large. One stroppy dog is hard work but you can manage it - when you have two acting together as a pack it's almost impossible. The result is a lot of work required individually. I know you may think this wouldn't be a problem but it really does mean taking the dogs out one at a time and trying to give them as much individual training as possible - which of course means one of them is left home alone half the time.

The ideal way to have two dogs is to get one, wait until it's over it's teenage stage and is fully trained then get another young pup - usually this would mean a 2 or 3 year gap. The previous posters have already said this, and it is true, that no responsible breeder will let you have two pups together anyway. If someone is willing to sell you two pups I would be very worried about their ethics and reasons for doing so. It's not just one persons opinion that this doesn't work well, its a well known fact in dog circles.

Of course there are some people who have made it work, the exception to the rule. And of course there are some breeds that are easier than others - Rotties are not one of these

The right and most sensible direction would be to only get one :D

Welcome to champdogs

I have to agree with everyone's comments here, and I say that as somebody who HAS littermates albeit one of each sex. Never, never, NEVER again!(I only kept two as the bitch was left over and remained unsold.) These dogs are now 5 ½ years old and they are nothing like my other dogs that have been allowed to grow up without their siblings.. They are insecure for a start, and still far more bonded to each other than anyone else. (Had they been of the same sex -either dogs or bitches- I am certain the would by now not get on at all.) Having littermates means SEPARATE walks, SEPARATE training sessions (including going on separate days to training club -they cannot be in the same class), and even then it doesn't necessarily work out -I did all of this.

hi all,

well thanks for all your replies, and you be pleased to know myself ( lee ) and sam have decided to get just the one, and get another once all is well

I personally am mid choice with my breed of dog, the choice bein the rottie or the dobey, are there any specifics that might make my mind up ?

thanks

Lee

Good decision - you won't regret it!

As for the breed - it'd be a good idea if you could visit a few owners and breeders of both and spend some time with the adult dogs, and see which you like best. Their temperaments are quite different, with Dobes (in my experience) being rather more sensitive than Rotts.

And of course neither breed will be docked!

I know a lot of dobes, and know a good rottie breeder whose pups often end up at our training classes and Trey are lovely, but very different breeders.

As the others have said you want to contact some good breeders who will put you in touch with puppy owners who have a similar lifestyle to you who are willing to have you visit.

When you have owned a particular breed for a long time dealing with them becomes second nature and you then avoid the commonest issues without thinking about it, this is where seeing dogs in Novice and ordinary Pet homes whose experience is of a dog or two not many generations and dogs.

For example one of the most common issues with all pups is mouthing, mot common issue with new owners at training classes and on various forums, and as a breeder one I expect to hear about despite having advised.  Yet with pups I have kept myself I have never had mouthing issues, as it never really gets beyond the first attempts.  I had this problem and then some in a 8 1/2 month old returnee, not fun when she was full grown and heavy hanging off my clothes and arms.

I am so pleased you have decided against getting 2!!!

The idea of spending time with both breeeds is a good one. Both visiting breeders in their own homes and also if you go to shows you will get to meet and chat to alot of breeders of both breeds.

Good luck with deciding which breed and your search!!!

just to promote a debate - how come so many breeders keep two puppies from a litter - be it a male and female, two sisters etc?

I see this alot at shows....

Probably because they have the facilities to do so Liisa as many pet homes dont, we have always had a gap between ours but when you come home from work and the dogs need to be walked seperately there are times i wish i only had one dog!

i value your opinions - ok so how did you come to the assumption that the OP doesnt have the facilities to do so?  you are assuming it is a pet home but how do you know this from the initial post?

just wanting to make a valid point that we should not just assume! 

personally I would not have 2 large (ish) breed puppies from the same litter, had 2 dobies six months apart and it was hard..... however I also have 2 cresteds (2 months age diff from same breeder)  both under 12 months - it is much easier than the dobes but also brings its own challenges and also takes double time to seperate etc as not everything can be done together...

>how did you come to the assumption that the OP doesnt have the facilities to do so?

Because there was no mention of staff to help with the running of the household as well as the rearing and training of two large-breed puppies.

Think about it. If two Yorkies get bolshie with one another it's not difficult to keep them contained within a domestic house. If two large 'guarding' breeds fall out in the same situation, you've got a nightmare scenario.

you are assuming it is a pet home but how do you know this from the initial post?

Because it would be rare for a breeder/exhibitor to buy IN two MALE pups at the same time -and also breeders/exhibitors usually already have contacts and know where to look for pups, know what lines they want etc.

I've only done it because one puppy from the litter didn't find another home. I never wanted two pups at once and it's been far worse than I'd been led to believe.

I've only done it with my Pom's twice in the 29 years that we've had them!!  I would never ever do it with my Spanish.

Known two litter brothers of the Spanish go to a home, they worked really hard with the two boys and had many ups and downs and did brilliantly with them but it was a lot of hard work.  Now one is not living with them anymore but with their family members.

We have never ever sold two together.  Someone who had a Spanish of me previously which unfortunately passed away had another off me and wanted two that time and I advised them not to even though they had had one before.  Luckily they took my advice and have a brilliant well rounded boy.

We have facilities to be able to keep them seperated.. we have the older girls who take charge of them individually...they teach them bite inhibition, how to play gently... tell them off when they get too rough etc..   to be honest.. we possibly couldnt do it without our oldies   I really on my Emma for a lot.. and Megan before that... even though Megan never had pups she was a wonderful surrogate and Alpha.. Emma stepped into the role when I lost her...  And.. having the time helps.. with them 24/7

I agree puppy rearing is so much easier when you have several canine adults to help you keep them in line, occupy them when your busy, and they speak dog. 

Also they may be running them on but don't plan to keep them permanently only until they decide which is the better one.

I sometimes wish I could run pups on until I know how they will turn out, but not only do I not have the time and facilities to do so, but after I have kept a pup past 3 months or so I couldn't part with them.

It does mean that my show ring success is going to be very hit and miss, as I can only keep a new pup every few years, and if the current one doesn't make the grade, well better luck next time :D

Just as well that I am patient and in it for the long haul.

hi brainless...

No I mena people who do keep two puppies... not just running them on....

Well if they are puppies whose to tell the breeders intentions later on?

?

Yep know plenty of people who will run them on until 18 months/two years, and their hip and eye tests are done. 

let me clarify as my point is being missed...

I am refering to people who do not run them on, they keep them!

on another note I would class running 'pups' on that are over 18 months to 2 as rehoming them...  running on in my opinion is a temp measure...

just my opinion feel free to disagree which i am sure people will lol

Well running on in our breed is probably upto 8months or less i think they would have a good idea by then even less if it were a smaller breed i would imagine...

Mmm, but then you have to find a home for the one you aren't keeping and that may take some time. 

Oh and somtimes the dogs may seem to belong to the breeder but in fact are already in pet homes but staying in breeders name for showing.

Anything short of lifelong is temporary, and running on to see how a dog turns out can easily take that long in a slow maturing breed.

n answer to your question, I don't know how these people do it unless there are several people in their household very into the dogs and can spend the required time with them.  They may also have kennels and kennel staff.  Of course they may have kept one and had one back or not found the right home for one.

Most dog people I know fall into the family companion and hobby bracket and avoid getting over dogged. 

The dogs live as part of their family and therefore harmony is very important, so doing anything that might cause conflicts is avoided.   It is no pleasure living with dogs that hate each other and constant care has to be taken to ensure doors are closed etc so that never the twain shall meet.

I only keep one sex as I could not live with the stain of ensuring absolute segregation just for the seasons.

Frankly the people with these kind of facilities would already be very experienced dog people and would not need to ask about getting pups, as they would know exactly how to go about it, have ear marked potential broods/studs whose offspring interests them etc.

Anyone of us already in dogs would know how to do this with any new breed we were interested in getting into, and it wouldn't be by buying two male littermates, whether your interests was breeding, showing working or what have you.

Hi Brainless

I agree to some of what you are saying... but dont take offence to what I disagree with - its my opinion thats all..

I would disagree that anything short of lifelong is temporary - an exapmple would be....why are jobs advertised as temporary? why do companies employ temps? why do businesses offer jobs on temporary contracts?  also the dictionary definition is "not lasting or needed for long".

I also dont think you need several people in a household to manage 2 puppies, you are puttint people into 'boxes' and also discriminating (indirectly) against people who live on their own - why cant they have 2 puppies?

Our interpretations or 'ass'umtions are based on what we know or what we are comfortable with.  Most people I know or choose to be very friendly with are very involved with dogs, be it showing or working - so they do have more dogs that what "we think is think is the norm" (norm doesnt exisit it my eyes)... some live alone, some have a husband but not an army of people to help. 

I have 6 dogs - none are kept outside or in kennels, 4 are from the working group and 2 from the toy - all live in harmoney and get on well and sleep on sofas etc.  I dont consider myself a kennel or a breeding establishment - by that i mean I dont over breed or breed to earn a living - my dogs are my hobby and in over 20 years I have bred 4 litters...

I tend also to keep one sex.  I have 5 bitches 1 (soon to be 2) neutered) and my male who has never been at stud is castrated.

Isnt this forum here to "ask questions?"

Maybe they wanted feedback and other peoples unbiased opinions?  Maybe they had received alot of info from breeders or people in general but wanted more?

Also male Rotts can be kept together succesfully, several breeders, show people do it?   Why do you suggest they should not be asking about males?  

I suppose what I am getting at is assumptions have been made and if you read through the replies nobody has asked any questions!!

liisa.....i wouldnt sell 2 pups to anyone (unless it was a home i had known a long time and they were already in the breed and very experienced) and certainly not to someone whos getting my breed for the 1st time. However i do nearly always keep 2 from a litter, usually dog and bitch. This time i have done it knowing that the bitch (only one in litter) is not so special BUT i have kept the best dog as well. Its belts and braces really......this blood line is so valuable to me and un repeatable, that i am keeping  a bitch i wouldnt otherwise have kept (albeit for minor reasons). I believe i have the knowledde the time, dedication, experience and facilities to keep 2 from the litter.

thats my point if people had been in the breed and were experienced... I was surprised that people assumed and didnt ask questions that all I was tryingb to say...  I know people do it but I personally wouldnt have 2 from same litter, I would leave it until one dog was at least 2 before getting another and ive had the breed for over 20 years...  its hard work....

Good luck Lee!

hi again ( its lee)

thanks again for all the input,albeit slighlty off topic from my last question , but all very interesting never the less

once we have moved into our new place we will start searching for various scenarios including the two breeds on question, then make our choice

it will be ONE to start then hopefuly another little cute pup in the future

cant wait

As had been pointed out it is important to get a pup from a reputable breeder.  The statistics here http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/back_yard_breeders.htm tell a story which is probably similar in the UK, that sadly the majority of pups are produced by poor or ignorant breeding.  You want to get one from that small percentage that do it properly.

Good luck with your research, and I look forward to hearing about your new family member next year.