It defeats the object if owners do not transfer the ownership @ the NDTR-The Data base retains the breeder's details so if the new owner cannot be contacted the breeder can.

All ears are shaved before tattooing & the tattoo is placed as low down as possible. If the fur is very low in the ear, simply keeping a couple of numbers visible by trimming the coat(on the inside of the ear of course)means the dog can be traced.

I would have the belt & braces approach ie chip & tattoo-chipping isn't my first choice, but it required fr DNA tests, Pet Passport etc

If the fur is very low in the ear, simply keeping a couple of numbers visible by trimming the coat(on the inside of the ear of course)means the dog can be traced.

I'd challenge anyone to read my cavalier's tattoo (or indeed any of my dogs' tattoos, but his in particular) -the fur goes down so far in the ear you cannot even see there is anything there unless you had a number 40 blade and was able to shave the ear flap totally bald. I don't have one and with my clippers (Finest blade I've got is a 15) cannot get enough fur off to enable anyone to even see the tattoo exists.

Are your dogs tattoos done in black ink using the small callipers, as certainly the old callipers, especially if done as pups with green ink are a job to see sometimes.

I can see all of my dogs tattoos (and that is saying something with 20% sight, the oldest of which is currently 10 1/2.

> I'd challenge anyone to read my cavalier's tattoo (or indeed any of my dogs' tattoos, but his in particular) -the fur goes down so far in the ear you cannot even see there is anything there unless you had a number 40 blade and was able to shave the ear flap totally bald. I don't have one and with my clippers (Finest blade I've got is a 15) cannot get enough fur off to enable anyone to even see the tattoo exists.

I've been waiting for you to write this, I know all your tattoos either faded &/or cannot be read, which I cannot confirm or prove not to be the case, however the tattoos I do do not fade & even in my Cavalier's ears can be read if I trim the inside of the ear with my cheapo Tesco Personal clippers, haven't a clue as to the blade number, but when I groom my dogs I shave the ears on the inside over the tattoo area & lo & behold there they are. I cannot under stand why you need to shave the whole ear of your Cavalier because if he was done as an adult the tattoo would not fill the ear & even if he was done as a puppy the calipers I've been using for over 13 years do not product a tattoo that would fill a puppy Cavalier's ear

Now as a tattooist of nearly 18 years of experience I was being asked frequently by my breeders if I could chip as well as the chips they had done by other people(including non veterinary personel)had moved or couldn't be read on a lot of their puppies. So I spent 9 monthd researching microchip brands & their history of movement. When I found a chip that had a good record I then sort out a firm in the UK that supplied these chips(there is only one)I contacted the firm & discussed at some length chips moving etc & would you believe it they actually admitted that lots of chips moved(all the other companies stated that they did not !) !! Their training & code of practice instructs microchippers to scan the whole animal as chips have been found all other the place-I wasn't expecting such honesty(repeated on the course BTW)& so did a training course for this company. I chips are the smallest on the market & are groved so that they adhere better. To date non of the chips I have implanter have moved & are all readable, until the other dogs at my training club whose chips have migrated all over the place or simply cannot be read for some reason-the worse are the very brand that is the best seller !!

I also personally know of a case of a successful doberman show bitch whose chip broke, and caused a huge allergic reaction causing abscessing and severe scar tissue formation.  Put an end to her show career.  Miner are chipped due to the demands of the Pet Passport scheme, but I am a little nervous about it and thankful that they have thick coats to provide padding when they barge each other in play (which we suspect is how the dobes chip shattered).

I also know personally of a Buhund who when going to have his Pet passport started was scanned for the chip he already had and it could not be found.  His owner really did not want a  second one unless she knew what had happened to the first so he was x-rayed, and it was in place, but not functioning, so the company offered to pay ti have it removed, but she opted for a second chip to be implanted.

Third case is very costly, as the dog was imported, and no trace of his chip could be found (owners were not prepared to have him x-rayed, and he was sent back to Norway where he had to be chipped again and the Pet Passport restarted, which meant the dog took well over a year to come to UK after purchase, but which time he was almost 7.

At training class we had a smooth coated Fox terrier cross whose chip could be felt down his shoulder blade, and was visible to the naked eye under the skin, he was chipped by the dogs home.

A friends bitch has had her chip travel down to her chest area.

With my own dogs the chips do seem to read somewhere along the neck and shoulder areas, so am hoping they are still where they were implanted.

The vets I work for have found that chips are more likely to migrate if they're put into very young animals - they prefer to chip at about a month after the first vaccination.

All but the last two of mine were done as adults, and the last two were done at 13 weeks.

Mine are chipped, tatooed and DNA profiled.  Fagans chip is currently in his ankle and Alfies is halfway down his shoulder (they were both done at 8 weeks so I can understand your vets reasoning) Their tatoo's are still visable but would be more visable if I shaved the inside of their ears.

My Rjj's was done at 15 weeks & is now in his chest at the front after first travelling to the end of his ribcage(Bayer chip)

I did Wukee @ 6 weeks & his is exactly where I put it !(different make of chip-Trovan)

Why do vets not suggest tattooing then instead/aswell as chipping?
I know training would need to be undertaken but maybe it could be a service the nurses offer?

Probably because they don't know about it, and the chipping companies want to market their product and the Vets already knows how to do injections, whereas they would have to train to tattoo..

The NDTR was set up for the benefit of the dogs and breeders.  The person tattooing only gets £5 per puppy tattooed, and if it is a small litter this doesn't even cover their petrol sometimes.

Thanks, I think I will get the litter tattooed.  What age do they recommend you get them done? 
My three are all chipped and one of my girls has a very small lump near the top, back of her front leg, I am almost certain it is her chip, I am going to get the vet to check it next time I am down that way.

Depends on the breed.  With mine I don't have them done before 7 weeks as the ears are too small.

Brainless asked:Are your dogs tattoos done in black ink using the small callipers, as certainly the old callipers, especially if done as pups with green ink are a job to see sometimes.

I have some with green ink and small calipers, some with black ink and large, some with black ink and small. The Cavalier is green and small.

Can you show a dog with a tattoo? like a dog with ears that stand up, if it has a tattoo you could see i dont think it would be very attractive

My dogs tattos are easily seen, even in photos, but I have yet to find a judge notice them, and three of them became champions (two my own), including the one in the Avatar.

Moonmaiden said:I've been waiting for you to write this, I know all your tattoos either faded &/or cannot be read, which I cannot confirm or prove not to be the case, however the tattoos I do do not fade & even in my Cavalier's ears can be read if I trim the inside of the ear with my cheapo Tesco Personal clippers, haven't a clue as to the blade number, but when I groom my dogs I shave the ears on the inside over the tattoo area & lo & behold there they are.

What's bothering me the most is that it isn't just ONE person who has produced failed tattooes in my dogs -that I could have understood. (And my first tattooed dog back in Sweden, his one was perfectly legible all his life. But he was the only one.) But we are talking about several different people here. Those dogs I have at the moment have been done by 3 different people, and my ex husband has a dog that used to be mine (he got to keep her when we divorced) and she was done by a fourth and hers I've never been able to read ever. In fact most of the tattoos have stayed the same, they have just never been readable to start with. The difference being the Malinois, hers used to be easy to read when she was perhaps up to 2 years of age.

Just a question, did you wash the excess ink away, or have a dog that would have licked the ears?  I have always been told not to clean the ink away and to allow it to disperse naturally, and avoid getting the ears wet.

I don't have one answer for that Barbara. The two dogs I still have that were done HERE (the Cavalier and a Golden -I had several more done at the time but those are the two still alive), the answer is no, the ink stayed until the excess dried up and fell off. The others (two Goldens and one Malinois) had been tattooed as pups when I bought them so I don't know.

Puppies can be tattooed from 6 weeks old as long as the ears are big enough  I've just done a litter of Border Terriers @ 6 weeks & I reduced the length of the tattoo number to ensure that the tattoo was at the base of the ear

Mine always have only 3 numbers and the letters as the Elkhound ears are so small until 7 weeks.  Funny how different breeds ears grow at different rates, and not comparable to the size they are when adult.

>Just a question, did you wash the excess ink away, or have a dog that would have licked the ears?  I have always been told not to clean the ink away and to allow it to disperse naturally, and avoid getting the ears wet.

TBH it is probably the way the tattooist applied the ink, it has to be rubbed until it is tacky & almost dry, a good while ago there were some tattooists who were not doing this & these were removed from being tattooists unless they under went more training Dogs cleaning each others ears(as with puppies)makes little difference as I could always tell if some one had had their puppies tattooed whilst the green ink was being used as the poo'd green for a few days afterwards.

I take a lot of time ensuring the ink is dry before I am satisfied that the tattooing is complete

Mine always have only 3 numbers and the letters as the Elkhound ears are so small until 7 weeks.  Funny how different breeds ears grow at different rates, and not comparable to the size they are when adult.

I haven't done many terriers(this breeder had used a tattooist who was removed from the system & shall I say hers tattoos left a lot to be desired)more Working breeds & Pastoral breeds so my terrier numbers are only in double figures