This year at crufts an Eskimo dog was entered as a German Spitz. And ended up winning reserve in the breed class. The Jude did not notice it was a different breed. The KC say the matter was now a subject to a investigation.
But do you think we breed to many look alike breeds? my partner who is not as dog crazy as me came to crufts with me and asked me what was the point of breeding dogs that look a like . A lot of these breeds look the same , he said. . This is not the first time its happened at crufts . With a cross breed being  entered in the open show as a German Spitz in 2006

I believe the rots of the American Eskimo are similar/same.

It is similar to the Keeshond and Wolf Spitz issue.

The Keeshond was developed in UK and America and a standard formulated.  In parallel you had the Germans who claimed the Wolf coloured Spitz as their own and in FCI countries the Keeshond and Wolf Spitz breed are considered the same even though there are differences between our Keeshonds standard (requires spectacles and size differences) and that of the Wolf Spitz.

I suspect the FCI view the American Eskimo as another name for the German Spitz which is why they accepted the dog at their shows under that breed name and it is how the dog qualified for Crufts as a German Spitz.

A similar situation existed with my breed in Norway and Sweden.  In Norway ti was the Norsk Elghund Gra (Grey Elk dog) and in Sweden they bred Grahunds (grey dogs).  It was eventually agreed that they were essentially the same breed, but the leggier type with light cheek markings and white on the legs was separated into the Jamthund or Swedish Elkhound as ti was distinctly different.

Similar things have happened in the evolution of types of dog into breeds.  Like Spaniels and Retrievers, when strains became distinctive, they became breeds.

Also many breeds have developed a different look and have differing standards.  Labradors have a taler height in the USA for example.

The FCI has unified standards for countries that show under their Umbrella, using the country of origin's standard.

This has caused problems for example in Dachshunds in Ireland that have always been bred to the UK standard, and now are judged under the FCI standard which allows for three sizes and not two, and size is based on chest circumference and not weight with a maximum weight for standards.

I am curious which breeds your BF thought looked the same. 

Many people mistake my breed for a sled dog breed but stood together they are vastly different, only similarity is that they both have prick ears, double coat and both carry their tails over the back, but one loosely and only on the move the other habitually in a tight curl.

They are different in size shape colouring, temperament and the use for which they were bred.

To me most cars of the same type (saloon, hatchback, estate) seem the same and only the badge makes them look different, but a car aficionado would know which was which by just seeing part of the car.

>I suspect the FCI view the American Eskimo as another name for the German Spitz which is why they accepted the dog at their shows under that breed name and it is how the dog qualified for Crufts as a German Spitz.

That seems to be exactly what happened, Brainless.

Looks like the Americans ahve muddies the waters then  bya accepoting the German Spitz as a seperate breed when the FCI already considered the American Eskimo as a German Spitz.

> To me most cars of the same type (saloon, hatchback, estate) seem the same and only the badge makes them look different, but a car aficionado would know which was which by just seeing part of the car.

i think thats the case, for example a non doggy person might misidentify certain belgian shepherds as gsd's. if we consider the number of porly bred gsds that don;t really look like gsds, an similar in palces looking breed thats uncommon here could be confused.

my Boy friend dose not have a clue when it comes to dogs but it was
interesting to here his point of view . Theses are some of the breeds he thinks look the same. Though I  can see why he thinks this, I being a doggy person can  see the different's

Polish lowland sheepdog and the old English sheep dog
maremma sheep dog and the mudi
Manchester terrier and German pinscher
hovawart and golden retriever
fox terrier and Irish terrier
Australian terrier and yorkie
French bull dog and Boston terrier

well in pretty much all those cases its easy to see why the different breeds were developed, different countries! and how would you decide which ones to stop breeding?

I dont think we should stop breeding any of them. but I do think we should not breed any new breeds that look the same.

The American Eskimo dog IS NOT a German Spitz, the same as an American Cocker is not a Cocker Spaniel. Similar breed but the GS comes in all colours, the Eskie white or biscuit. The Eskie has derived from the German Spitz, the white keeshond and the Italian Volpino.  Roughly the same background as the Jap Spitz, and yet this is not a German Spitz Mittel.

As prevously mentioned the GS is on the FSS register of the AKC so even the american's don't believe this is the same breed.

Hopefully the KC will sort the mess out, a group of Mittel exhibitors have clubbed together and put their money down. 

Nikki

Polish lowland sheepdog and the old English sheep dog
maremma sheep dog and the mudi
Manchester terrier and German pinscher
hovawart and golden retriever
fox terrier and Irish terrier
Australian terrier and yorkie
French bull dog

Can't believe that someone would think that most of these are the same breed, most of them are different, heights, builds and colours!

Polish lowland sheepdog and the old English sheep dog
maremma sheep dog and the mudi
Manchester terrier and German pinscher
hovawart and golden retriever
fox terrier and Irish terrier
Australian terrier and yorkie
French bull dog

Well..............on sunday at a limit show my friend stood his dog on the mats ready for the judge to asses - the judge said "put her on the table please" so he did thinking maybe he can't bend that far down to go over her (being an old chap) and then as he was going over her he said "oh what a lovely manchester terrier" my friend replied with "she's a german pinscher and not a table dog" the judge didn't answer and just said "up and down please" he won minor pup and pup bitch with her and went res best pup but its quite worrying that the judge didnt even know the difference?!?!

I had a judge a couple of years ago asked me to put my SBT on the table!! 

Sarah.

??????????????

oh well, clearly if i so chose i would make a wonderful dog- i can tell the difference between a stafford and a belgian :D

My friend with a brown and white Spanish was asked to bring her Bolognese out by a top Championship BIS judge!

No, it WAS one of my SBTs I was showing!  But they DO NOT go on the table!!

oh ok! lol sorry, misunderstood! someone on here once said a judge thought their beardie was a an afghan :O

It does make you wonder "who are these people? did they just find some random people off the street to judge?"

I'm only a novice but I know a SBT does NOT go on the table

My friend with a brown and white Spanish was asked to bring her Bolognese out by a top Championship BIS judge!

Like that one hee hee!  A TT puppy that went on to being one of the top winning TT's was mistaken for a Puli (said owner doesn't have a sense of humour at the best of times & no, it wasn't mine!)

Have often been asked if my SWD is a Lagotto or even more insulting a Labradoodle

we also had a breed mix up at crufts when the judge obviously thought she was judging a different breed!!! LOL

Some years ago at a Limited show the judge (after judging several munsterlander puppies in the av gundog puppy class) took one look at an adult munsterlander and said 'oh, is that what they are supposed to look like?' That dog went on to get RBIS!?! I don't think she has judged any of the breed since..... though I could be wrong....

Glad I own a dog that is easily recognised! lol

Lindylou - heard ta exemption show ,(pedigree open class) bring your long coat pointer out please.................(Lg Munster!!!!!!!!!!!!!) owner was WELL impressed

I got BIS at an Exemption show was well pleased until the judge said 'BIS, the Buhund'.  Now you do get non wheaten coloured Bu's but they are not really coloured like an Elkhound at all, never mind the differences in size and type.

To be honest at Exemption, and even at Limit or club match level it can be forgiven, ti is when judges at champ show level get it wrong, not even recognising a breed, that it is worrying.

I like to think that I would at least recognise a given breed, and I have no intentions to ever judge.  Did get roped into doing a companion show about two years ago, and gave in and judged.

Sat before judging going through my KC illustrated breed standards and brushing up on specific points of the breeds I saw arriving.  I ended up giving BIS to a French bulldog.

I really liked the look fitness and movement of a piebald red and white Bullterrier pup, checked the standard, and they didn't end up coming under me as he wasn't quite 6 months.

tatty-ead, I suppose being called a Longhaired Pointer is better than some of the names we've had...! Afghan, Spaniel, Dalmatian cross to name a few.

The munster IS actually a German Longhaired Pointer, so I wouldn't have been too unhappy if I'd been called a pointer. At least it's close!

Barbara, I agree about the exemption (oops - companion ) and limited shows. Judges have to learn somewhere, but if they aren't sure about the breed why not ask? Or just point and say something like 'you first madam, or sir' instead of making a fool of themselves by getting the breed wrong.

> Barbara, I agree about the exemption (oops - companion ) and limited shows. Judges have to learn somewhere, but if they aren't sure about the breed why not ask? Or just point and say something like 'you first madam, or sir' instead of making a fool of themselves by getting the breed wrong.

I agree.  I have had that too at that level and have been pretty sure they didn't know what they were.  I was lucky in that mine were good movers (often won the best movement classes with Kizi and Jozi when still eligible for those shows), so judges liked to put them up, but am sure they really weren't sure what they were.

A doggy aquaintence was judging the utility group at a big open show a couple of years ago , she rang me and enquired as to how she would be able to tell the difference between the Shih-tzu and the Lhasa Apso when they entered the group ring , I jokingly told her that the Shih-tzu would have it's hair tied up !!!!!

Last year at one of the champ shows my brother was handling a Field Spaniel in the breed classes which were being judged by a well known gundog judge who also shows. 

Later on during the day my brother was waiting to go into the handling with his setter and the judge from the field spaniels comes up to him and says "you had a sussex spainel last time I saw you didnt you"

Well needless to say we had a great laugh at this judge when he had moved away.  Not only did he get the two breeds mixed up, he was ment to be judging one of them.