hello

does any one know of any breeders of belgian  Laekenois i have found 1 breeder in scotland(GREYSBROOK) and one in lincs (BONVIVANT)
i am trying to find out as much as possible about the breed does anyone know of anymore?
thanks joelol

There are only those two (Nina Neatham and Jan Ralph), then there is Martin Ralph who has just imported a new one and I assume he might have something in the future but don't know -it's been about 4 years since there last was any Laekenois pups born in the UK though so you'll have to be prepared to wait.

What are they???

One of the 4 varieties of Belgian Shepherd Dog.

Or of course you could import, but would have to find someone to have the pup until it was at least 1 months old until it was old enough to pass the Pet Travel scheme requirements.

I thought the one who was BOB at Crufts was lovely and far more BSD in type than some of the Lakenois of the time I was in BSD's, the Zhales and Shepingham's in the 1980's

By the way Marianne, is Hazel Pond still alive?

Thanks for the link Jeangenie. I like those, he looks like one of those beanies, but large.

I thought the one who was BOB at Crufts was lovely and far more BSD in type than some of the Lakenois of the time I was in BSD's, the Zhales and Shepingham's in the 1980's

By the way Marianne, is Hazel Pond still alive?

Yes it's been rare to see any actually looking like a curly Mali, many have been so much heavier. Martin Ralph's new import (was at DD) impressed me, and I hear there are another 3 imports in the pipeline but not sure who are getting them. There were some lovely ones at Crufts in 2007 as well, also from abroad.

As far as I am aware Hazel Pond is still alive.

She must be getting on now.  When I was showing she was still showing the Groen Zhale Philanderer.  she gave my Groen bitch teh pupy bitch class at Bath in 1989.

Must admit that I love this variety of the breed, although I'm taken by the breed full stop.  A lovely Groen. comes to our training club.  He's a little bit shy but soon comes out of his shell.  He did really well at Crufts this year and he's still only young.

Have to admit that BSD's have never floated my boat - not even keen on any breed in the group, but I really liked that Laekenois BOB at Crufts. Shows we can always surprise ourselves!

thanks for the replies.
didnt realise they were quite that rare!
was looking long term in a few years time.

cheers

They're not everyone's cup of tea.  They are a very sensitive, highly strung breed and definately not for the novice!!

As an Ex BSD owner I would second that.  Emotionally a high maintenance breed.  You have to put a lot of work in mentally (socialisation training) to get the best out of them, and want (as they need) a very close intense bond with your dog.

The above is not a criticism of the breeds as if that is the kind of relationship you want with your dog they are ideal. 

thanks again

are these  traits unique to the laekenois or all 4 types?  most i find to read on them say that all 4 are the same dog only with differing coats, while sometimes ive read that the malinois is different to the other 3 (high prey drive etc).
also is there any good websites /books you would recommend on the breed?

thanks joelol

I have the Groenendael and Malinois and yes, the traits are the same!!  They are the most loyal breed I've ever owned, but I've found with both mine, they are highly strung and v. sensitive, but oh, so quick to learn (both good and bad habits!!).  I don't find my Mal. to be high prey drive at all!  Maybe that's just mine!

The high prey drive would be the working strains that are very different to the breed in general.  I believe that they a re not necessarily purebred all the way either, and are bred as Police, Army and Attack dogs, not a pet temperament at all, and not suitable for civvy street.  These are bred well away from their original pastoral roots.  I don't think the title 'Shepherd dog' really fits them.

at the moment i currently own the world most laid back rottweiler so it it  sounds like i would be in for an almighty culture shock!
as i say its probably years down the line i am thinking of.

cheers

http://www.bsdaofgb.co.uk/ The breed club website. Go to "general information and health" and you will find various articles.

Bit late coming to this thread - you may be interested to know that two Laekenois are being imported into the Uk by the Belsharose kennels sometime this year which should boost our current available breeding stock ....it may be a good time to contact Jan Ralph too ...........although I do know she has a waiting list a yard long for the variety - we do need more people interested in this somewhat quirky varuiation of our breed and it would be great to encourage new folk into the showring with their Laekenois - good luck !

Yvonne

Oh it's them is it -that will make the second UK breeders to have all 4 varieties then. Has Jan managed to get anywhere with Brizo then -last time I heard she'd mated her to Cougar in which I assume must have been desperation LOL.

Hi Marianne - I have PM'd you

Yvonne

Hi Joelol

If you're interested in BSD's then try and get hold of 'the Complete Belgian Shepherd Dog ' by Debbie Fleming - it's a comprehensive guide to the breed and a good place ro start.

Yes Belgians can be sensitive and need a lot of socialising when young but this varies greatly from dog to dog and from variety to variety - in my opinion and personal experience the Groenendael is the most laid back of the varieties and the Malinois the most 'hyper'.  I have four Groenendael at the moment ( and two Tervueren) two of my Groens work as Therapy dogs with Autistic youngsters and are totally bombproof - with a low reactive temperament - they don't even bark when someone knocks at the door ! - my other two Groens are lovely with people and laid back in the house but one is sound sensitive and fearful of loud or unexpected noises the other can be dominant with other dogs -- never agressive - but a bit of a bossy so and so  ( she thinks she's the pack leader !).

My Tervs are MUCH more active - I work one in agility - my younger Terv is a 'typical ' BSD in that he is always on the move and highly reactive to new situations and experiences - he has been much harder work than all my Groens put together and I think I'll be sticking to the black ones in future !.

Of course my experiences could well not be true of all Tervs ( and Teri may well tell you differently LOL !!!) - try and visit a breed club show or some local breeder/owners to get a real 'feel' for the breed.

Yvonne

What are the current Lakenois like compared to the other three varieties in temperament.  I remember the shepingham's and the Zhales and they were heavy in type and very stolid in temperament and I wondered what the ones I have seen over recent years that look much more like the other Belgians in build are like in nature.

As Belginas go my preference is still for those shiny blacks, who one child on seeing my bitch said to her Mum 'Look Mummy that lady has a pony'  I hope she meant Elegant thoroughbred not dumpy pony LOL.  Teh Lakenois always appealed if they were more Belgianny thatn the ones aroudn when I showed my Groen girl (1989 - 1991).

Hi Barbara

Laekenois are roughly split into two types  there are the heavier Bouvier type with lots of furnishings but lacking the elegance and distinctive look of a BSD and there are those that resemble wire coated Malinois with a much typier appearance particularly in the head but whose coat is not really correct for a Laekenois. It appears very difficult to achieve the ideal which is a dog that looks like it's breed but with sufficient coat. The Zhale and Shepingham  dogs tended towards the Bouvier type and had placid easy going natures . Many of the current crop of Laekenois on the continent - and our recent imports - have been crossed with Malinois and have lost the laid back nature of the variety.

Jan's bitch is an outstanding example and a good combination of type ,coat and excellent temperament but unfortunately she has proved very difficult to get into whelp .

I'm with you in that I much prefer the Groenendael  ! 

Yvonne

Sounds like things are roughly the same still with the Lakenois then.

Just ran acrossed this board and this discussion.  I'm in the USA the only folks I know of with Laekenois in the UK are the two that you mentioned.  I've had Malinois for 30 yrs (my 1st Malinois was a grandson of a dog from the 2nd litter of Malinois whelped in the UK) and Laekenois for 13 yr.  There are a other breeders in other countries but you need to be careful to make sure that the breeders are checking the dogs hips, elbows and eyes (PRA is a problems since Hassan van Kriekebos was a PRA carried and is behind almost every Laekenois alive in the world today) and that they have passing results.  The Laekenois has a much high failure rate than the other 3 Belgians.  You also need to make sure that what you are getting is actually a Laekenois since sadly there are some breeders registering smooth coated dogs as Laekenois.  If you take your time and do your research it is possible to find a well bred Laekenois than does not look like either a Bouvier or a Malinois but it will take time and effort on your part.

Cindy