I would NEVER allow a 5 year old to walk to school on their own, would you? They have to be able to UNDERSTAND how to cross a road etc, and animals cannot regardless of age.


Marinanne have you got the threads muddled up?  NOBODY here has said anything about letting a 5 year old walk to school.  My cat was very good on the road. Stop as soon as he heard a car.  So HE WAS very road sensible. Well put it this way he wandered everyday for 12 years so was doing something right.

It is only a tiny tiny % that every get knocked down.

it has 600 members and 99 % of the members would never dream of letting their cats outside. I am on a Canadian one as well, much smaller but same there

Do you know the population of these two countries   I can assure you the cats are mostly let out.  You will probably find on these type of groups it is a very high % pedigree cat owners.

Blue you asked if I would not let my children walk to school. I answered I would never let a 5 year old walk to school unaccompanied. Plain and simple. An animal does NOT understand more than a 5 year old child.

I'm giving up on this thread now, sadly accepting that with a few exceptions like JG, the original poster and Christine (sorry if I missed mentining anyone else sensible, I know there were some!), most CDers obviously ONLY care about the welfare of dogs and not other animals. I can only think it all comes down to not wanting to clean litter trays if you keep your cats indoors.... (Miss that rolleyes icon!) Maybe I should go and let my dogs out to roam now -might be cruel to them if I don't.. as they need a LOT more exercise than cats it must surely be MORE cruel to not let dogs run willy nilly. If an enclosed outdoor run attached to the house isn't enough for cats, supervised walks cannot be enough for dogs!

Must be where people live as I never have rabbits jumping out either. I live relatively in the country to.  Late at night you see rabbits but not during the day. Not in my neck of the woods.  

You know I have never even seen a badger in my life

Ooh I have seen several on my city walks.

Sadly saw a dead one on the side of the road by the bridge leading to what used to be the railway, but is now a cycle path and walkway.
It looked as if it had been hit and was trying to get back onto the Cycle track, so ti would seem there must be a set there somewhere.  This is right in the city.

At my Dads which is the edge of farmland I have seen several crossing the road, Dad hit one a glancing blow one time.

On walking the footpath a few fields away I called the dogs to put back on lead before heading into the next field (and checking they could be let off again) when a Badger walked across right from the hedgerow across our path.  I was very glad I had them all back on lead.

See an awful lot run over in the spring along the M5 betweeen Bristol and Gloucester.

Your posts are now becoming a little personal  not only to cat owners but also people who have contributed comments on the thread, a whole bunch of sweeping unfounded generalisations in that post Marianne just because people choose not to keep cats as you do.  It doesn't make it wrong because people don't do as you do.  It is just a differences of opinion.  

You started the thread with sweeping generalisations and were contradicted and rightly correct, no need to end with similar sweeping generalisations.

Blue you asked if I would not let my children walk to school. I answered I would never let a 5 year old walk to school unaccompanied. Plain and simple. An animal does NOT understand more than a 5 year old child.

Sorry what I said was;

Next you will be saying children should not walk to school and we don't love our kids because we do let them .   I was actually making a point about the not loving comment

you implied , well actually you said ;

"No responsible cat owner would let their cats out unless it was into a secure run" That is incorrect

and

If they loved it they would not have risked putting it otuside in an unsafe area to START with.... That is also incorrect

Sorry, still cant be convinced that cats should penned.

How about the feral colonies.....has anyone told them they should not roam.
The way they are guarded here is to be rounded up and neutered, but how do you house train them?

I truly love cats but it applies more than ever to cats, that they own you, and they deign to stay on their terms only.
It does depend on where you live however, whether or not you should keep one.

Karen

Ok, I live close to the main A90 dual carriageway, I travel up & down it several times a day - of all the cats I have seen dead by the side of this road (Around the villages) all have been moggies, sorry, that's what they've been - and some have laid their until they've disintergrated.  If you want proof , I'm happy to photograph them next time.

marianne i'm struggling to keep my cool here.
Becuase i let my cat out where you prefer to keep them penned does not mean i only care about the welfare of dogs and not animals It means i have made a decision based on experience, past animals, levels of confidence and the area i live. I would not slag off your way of keeping pets not get personal. I dont believe its entirely fair to the animal but that said there are worst conditions animals are kept in. As i said before my cat comes in to eat her tea then stays in the kitchen all night so again I can only think it all comes down to not wanting to clean litter trays if you keep your cats indoors.... is completely unfounded and quite frankly rude.
Going to get personal here (as you have done) and say get off your high horse for goodness sake

I can't see where Marianne has been rude at all, if expressing your opinion is constituted as being rude then most of ChampDoggers are d*mn rude then.    I can't believe what a moany old board this is turning into.  Constant moans, no light heartedness anymore, lighten up people - you're long dead.

I have kept my own counsel up to now - it seems that whatever I post on these days is pulled - but I do have to speak out here.

For more years than I care to remember we have lived in the middle of nowhere, so my cats have no traffic to contend with whatsoever.   I used to breed l/hs (persians) and although I was able at that time to give my own cats freedom, I advised anyone who had a kitten from me to treat their kitten as they would a puppy - one would not just open the front door and let the puppy outside, and neither should one allow a kitten that opportunity.   And as for back gardens - would you happily let your puppy roam over everybody else's garden?   I think not.

Of course cats are still allowed outside - and sadly, too many of them are hit by the traffic - traffic which is far faster and which there is more of - cats have not yet evolved enough to be able to cope with the benefits of the 21st century.   There are so many families absolutely devastated when their beloved moggy does not come home.    Locally, the cat rescue organisations will not let a cat go to someone who lives on even a relatively busy road.

Neither Marianne nor Christine have been rude - they have expressed the CURRENT KNOWLEDGEABLE people who breed cats - not who just allow their cat to have a litter.   

Read, learn, and inwardly digest

Margot

Hi Margot,

I think this will be the first time ever in all the years I have been on this board that I have disagreed with you but I have to say that to say the personal comments made by both Christine and Marianne are not rude is incorrect.  Some comments were informative and had the comments only been informative then they would have had some weight but BOTH posters personally questioned the love, loyality and care any person who lets a cat out have for their animals. Margot that is I am afraid rude.  If you have let your cat outside then you are and were one of those people the comment was directed at.

It is a world we all have to live in.   I /my family have had cats all our life both Pedigree and Moggy so I have no bias one way or another AND only joind in when I saw the personal generalisations being made.   We don't need personal criticisms on a discussion form.  

You have to post sound educational posts for people to read, learn and digest.

Sorry Pam, personal comments?  Because I made an observation about the dead bodies of cats lying besides the A90, were these your cats?  No?   So how is that personal?

Hi Christine the use "personal" in my post doesn't have to mean directly to me, it just means comments that I believe would be deemed personal to anyone in the same situation

BUT in fairness I do apologise as your post were not as personal as Marianne's in honesty.  I did think they were a little insensitive though regarding cats lying at the side of the road.  People who have lost their cats certainly care for them and love them equally as you or Marianne does.

  My cat in the last couple of years rarely left the street but went out for a wander and came back. He would cry, cry and cry when I tried to keep him in. When I did try to keep him in when he started to slow down.  

One day he colapsed on my neighbours doorstep (She used to enjoy and encourage his visits)  I sadly had to have him put to sleep just 12 hours later as the vet couldn't do anything really for him and to be honest the fact that he was a cat that went out was also a reason that I made the decision to let him go that day. He would never have been happy living his last few weeks locked in the house after he had 12 years of a happy adventurous life AND I couldn't bare to let him out again incase he did pass away outside and I wasn't there with him or I didn't know what had happened to him.

Had he went missing I would honestly have been very upset at some of the comments on this thread.  My little cat was a huge part of our family I got him when my daughter was a baby.

I think everyone has something to give to threads from their own experience BUT it doesn't make anyone experts.  We only THINK our way is the best way based on our experience.

Lokis mum:we were given a cat from a rescue shelter and we live near a main road. Not motorway or A road but a through road that is fairly busy with traffic and buses.
Cats do go in peoples gardens-thats what they do. Dont think you can compare between a cat and dog really.

I would say some of the comments here have been personal and im offended that someone says for example "the only reason i let my cat out is because i cant be bothered to clean a litter tray" if thats not personal as well as rude and likely to get someones back up then i dont know what is!!!

What I have found really suprising about this discussion is that a poster has asked about how to buy a pedigree cat and yes was given advice on doing so but it has also been suggested to get a moggy instead. This to me seems like promoting irresponsible breeding of moggies after all if they were dogs they would be mongrels and if this had been a poster asking about the latest must have crossbreed they would have been bombarded with health tests, reason for wanting a  cross, not bred by reputable breeders etc. etc. go to a rescue centre, which is fine if you would like to rescue and help but should we be promoting breeding them? Why the difference for a companion animal that will be a valuable member of the family ? Do we only promote ethical breeding of dogs?

I believe there are so many lovely cats wanting homes that its only ethical to promote those aswell from rescue shelters.

The same could be said of dogs as well  do we suggest everyone only get a rescued dog?

I have on occasions. A rescue cat or dog doesnt neccessary need to be a mongrel/mog. And not forgetting specific breed rescue shelters too.

So if a poster came on and asked fro help in buying a pedigree Border Collie from a reputable breeder they would have been directed to rescue for a cross breed?  I really dont think so.

Unfortunately i cant see the original post but the thread went slightly off topic hence why we were talking about moggys.
If a poster came asking for a pedigree collie then no they wouldnt have been advised to a rescue for a cross breed
but may have been advised to go to rescue. Ive seen collies with papers in rescue.

Going really off topic now, but I find this interesting too Gillian. I'd take a guess that as mentioned above there is much less (but not NO) difference between cat types and temperaments, and I'd also hazard a guess that cats are probably less likely to be affected by previous experiences than dogs, unless in the case of extreme cruelty? As I'm not particularly a cat person (tell that to my husband's cat, Smudge!), I stand to be corrected though.

Obviously this forum is fairly pedigree focused, but I find that on virtually ever other forum - dog specific and non-dog specific - there is a lot of pressure put on people to make the 'moral' choice and get a rescue dog. I find this really irritating, I have to say, as I feel it completely disregards so many aspects of dog ownership. There is so much variation in needs and temperament between different dog breeds, and as a dog owner I'm afraid I reserve the right to aim for the look and temperament that I want, with as much certainty as Mother Nature ever allows, so it's pedigree puppies all the way for me.

Also, as we all know, it's only the ethical breeders that will hold off having a litter when the market is saturated, whilst the BYBs and puppy farmers carry on regardless. I have no intention of such rubbish, and if that makes me a dog snob, so be it.

M.

That is exactly my point and what happened in this thread though the poster asked how to find a reputable pedigree cat breeder and they were given a small amount of info on that which thankfully they appear to have gone with  and are researching their new companion. However they were also pointed in the direction of a moggy i.e. a crossbreed.  As I asked do we only promote the reputable breeding of dogs?

The discussion did then go off at a tangent about letting cats out or not

Oh and just to clarify I have owned crossbreeds  & moggies  aswell as obviously pedigree dogs and cats.

Actually when you start getting into the different  breeds of cat there are as many differences between there temperements as there are to dogs I now doubt I would own any other breed of cat than a Ragdoll having owned persians, chinchillas and moggies previously.(indoor cats might I add )

But it's still not AS different surely - yes, with a Burmese you need to be prepared to mentally stimulate them or have your curtains shredded, vs. a Persian who will lie in front of the fire. However, both would fit into the family easier than say the difference between a ... ummm ... Australian Cattle Dog and a Cavalier? In the cat example, your furniture would suffer. In the dog example, I would imagine an ACD treated the same as a Cavalier would be downright dangerous?

M.

I've had 3 persians in my life,ALL from reputable breeders and they all knew they were going to be let outside.Due to their nature they tended to stay close to home and rarely wandered the neighborhood. In my experience if you want an affectionate cat do not get a persian.None of mine were cuddly/affectionate at all
We have a burmese,,, and 2 moggs from feral parents,and the burmese is very affectionate and very dog like,whereas the other 2 only come in for food and have always retained a bit of their feralness,which is why i will never adopt stray kittens ever again!
I let my cats out because i DO love them and want them to be happy,i also have litter tray's inside because they are kept in at night and when we go out.So to say that people who let their cats out don't love them or do so because they don't want to clean litter tray's is I'm sure extremely offensive to most cat owners who let their cats out.Fortunately i do not get offended so comments such as these just make me roll my eyes as do other similar holier than thou sweeping statements...

FTR every cat i and my family have ever owned have been indoor/outdoor cats and we havn't lost one to RTA or aids.

Well from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE having owned 6 moggies & now 3 pedigree's, the temperaments of the pedigrees I have to say far outweigh the moggies, no skitternesh with strangers etc.   Like pedigree dogs, all pedigree cats have their own breed traits.  My 2 British are pretty laid back and now out of the playful stage, whereas Hope (Selkirk Rex) is a little naughty nell but so lovable with it.

And working on & off at a cattery too, I can tell you it's always the moggies that are the fiesty b*ggers when you try to clean their pens out, my walking boots have the scratch marks on them from an inmate last Saturday!   Also it's always the moggies that come in with bucket loads of medication!  And in the past it's been moggies that have never been reclaimed again, owner goes on holiday & never returns to collect their cat.  Not happened with the pedigree's!