Hi everyone

I just wanted to get some advice regarding taking puppies for walks. My pup is 19 weeks old now and so fully vaccinated, we have been taking her for approximately 20 min walks since she could go out the house as we were told only to take her for 5minutes walk for every month of her life.

As she is now getting up to 5 months does this mean we can only take her for 25mins walk maximum? would it hurt if we took her for an hour every now and again at the weekend? She just seems to have loads of energy and the walks seem so short. The trainer I talked to said it was to prevent damaging the bones while she is growing but would a longer walk at the weekend be this detrimental?

I would appreciate your advice.
Hazel

Remember that is twice a day not once.

I know that it does sound silly, but it really can damage a pups growth to over walk, even to just do this once or twice can cause hip scores and joint growth to become strained.  Pups are full of energy, but they have quick spurts and then rest, if you are going somewhere as many of us do for a nice country walk, what you would need to do is sit and rest in-between in the summer time that is better as you can stop for a picnic, your pup is still with you enjoying a nice outing but not constantly walking or running or perhaps even carry your pup for some of the way so as not to overstrain. It is a continual walk that strains the joints.

Soon your pup will be of age to enjoy a good long walk without worrying about growth problems.

I once knew a lady who had a potential show poodle, the poodle was carried around on a cushion for 6 months so as not to damage it's joints, at least yours can enjoy a nice walk, all be it not as long as you would like.

It is important to stick to things as much as possible. They are a guide, but try not to overstep the guidelines by too much.

I would agree with your trainer that it is best to stick to 5 minutes per month. It's only while she's young, and it's better than risking bone problems which will be lifelong. Has the trainer suggested any sort of brain work like clicker training? Brain work tires them out a lot quicker than physical exercise.

twice a day? I was under the impression that she only needs one walk a day. I will continue with the 20-30 min walks at the moment then as you've suggested but I was wondering what age she needs to be be before I can stop worrying about growth problems?

When will she be old enough to go on longer walks?

All dogs benefit from more than one walk a day - two (or even three) short walks is better than one long one. 'Proper' walks shouldn't really be done until the dog is physically fully grown - the bigger the breed, the later that is. For an average-sized breed (labrador, say) then a year old is about the soonest for walks of an hour; from 18 months the skeleton should be fully mature and the growth plates closed. For smaller breeds it would be sooner, with about 10 months to a year being the age of maturity.

Hi Hazel,

I have a 14 wk old and totally understand how you feel, wanting to take them on nice long walks   I drive him to the fields and carry him from the car over the style just so that his whole 15 mins is spent off the lead enjoying his run rather than walking along the path to the fields taking up any of his excerise time

Yesterday I took him to some woods in Conwy with three other dogs, it was a longer walk so after 15 mins we stoped for a rest by a stream and I carried him part of the way back.

I am getting a Stafford pup which as you probably know are a short stocky breed. I cant allow our pup to even go upstairs until his bones are fully set!! lol Little buggers always try to get up there tho lol

Like the rest say its better sometimes to split these times into smaller walks which is what Im gonna do, so if the pup is 3 months old that would equal 15 mins walking time a day, try having 5 mins in the morning, 5 mins in ths afternoon and 5 mins in the evening. That way its 3 times he has been outside and also 2 times more to practice heel etc

Oh I thought it was 15 mins twice a day!  will have to check that one

5 minutes exercise per day for every month seems very conservative to me - certainly for terrier sized breeds.   There's a balance between protecting the joints and developing a strong athletic physique.   Certainly with Staffys I would say at 6 months an hour free running is fine and by a year I'd be happy with just about anything other than taking them out distance running.   People exercise before the growth plates are fully closed so why not dogs ?

>People exercise before the growth plates are fully closed so why not dogs ?

Even people have restricted formal exercise till adulthood - children aren't allowed to run marathons, for example, and junior sports are held on smaller pitches for shorter periods and with additional rules to safeguard them.

Our friend walked their Stafford like normal and was on hour walks by the time she was 6 months
Now she has a very visible inward bend to both of her back legs and her hind really swings when she walks also she cant run for long as her legs get tired very quickly.
So a definate NO for walking Staffords for that long so young, they are very compact and heavy and their bones thick, the bones need time to settle and become hard bones from puppy bones (Same as human babies) and too much exercise, as my friend proved 100%, is a very big mistake to make and your Stafford will suffer no end.

It has been mentioned before that the 5 minute per month guideline is a good one per walk.

for some heavier breeds one walk a day of this length will be enough.

for other more active, lighter breeds this amount twice a day is fine, and with others a mixture of the two.

Fro example my own medium size compact breed, five minutes per month of life would be fine say until 4 or 5 months, but after that it often becomes apparent they need a bit more so they might get two 20 minute walks at 4 months rather than the one, or two every other day.

By 5 months mine are usually happy with something between one and two walks of 25 minutes.

By 6 months some will still be happy with half hour and maybe a shorter errand run to the paper shop etc. but after that they are more likely to need two walks of the recommended amount say half hour morning and night.

By a year old they will be up to an hour per walk, which may be split into one long hour walk or two half hours or what have you.

After  a year old mine will take as much exercise as I would give them, but in the main it is rare that this would be more than an hour in one go.

With adults I do go up to 2 hours per walk, but most days they get an hour.

I certainly think the 5 minute guideline is a useful rule to follow to ensure you are not overtaxing a pup, and you can tweak as you learn over time to read your dog, which many novice owners don't know how to do, so the guide is invaluable to them to help ensure optimum skeletal health.

To be fair I'm not saying children should run marathons - but if they wait until their bones are all fully formed before training for distance running they aren't ever going to reach the top end of the sport.  Yes kids do play on smaller pitches at football - in smaller teams so they get more of the ball - but they still play football from the age of 6 in organised leagues and on full sized pitches from their teens, in rugby they play full 15 a side from the age of 13.   Similarly I'm not suggesting people should run a marathon with a 6 month old pup - but I do think that the 5 minutes per month guideline is too conservative except in giant breeds or breeds which have a known problem with joint problems. 

As for Staffys - well my partner and I have over 50 years experience in the breed between us and I have to say I think the dog that ended up cow hocked probably has nothing to do with the exercise it was given when young.  Just had my 13 year old dog out for 90 minutes walk this morning - much of it off lead fetching a toy or running with other dogs so we must have done something right - others may differ but my experience leads me to believe an hour walk for a 6 month old isn't excessive, especially if that's a walk to the park, a play, and a walk back - though it is perhaps top end of what I'd give them at that age.   

human beings bones grow at a much slower rate than a pups though.

My breed for example born at 10 or 12 ounces reaches about 9 to 11 pounds in 8 short weeks.

Human infant born at 7 pounds would only reach about 11 pounds by 8 weeks.

The child has put on 4 pounds but it is only about half as much again as it weighed at birth, compared to the pup being 8 times it's starting weight. 

It doesn't end there it takes about 13 to 15 years for a human girl to reach adult height which is reached by a pup at 9 to 15 months.

The reason for care with exercise is to protect growing bones, and is especially important for pups because of the incredible rate of growth.

Bone density depends in large part on the amount of weight bearing exercise taken during the growth phase.   Restrict exercise too much and you are actually weakening the bones not protecting them.   The same with cartilage and soft tissue - you need a certain amount of stress on the body for it to develop properly.

I am not arguing for unlimited exercise for puppies - I am arguing that in small/medium sized breeds that 5 minutes a day per month is too conservative.    Just because children grow more slowly the principle is the same - nobody would say a 4 or 5 year old kid should stop playing on the park after 30  minutes or an hour in case their bones became damaged.   If you want to apply it to faster growing animals  how much exercise does a 9 month old wolf get - I'll bet it's a bit more than 45 minutes a day.   

I do agree that for some pups 5 mins per month isn't enough, but I think that an hour just at the weekends could be a lot more damaging for a pup than to gradually biuld it up to an hour per day (I'm not recomending an hour per day).
If a pup is used to 20 mins a day & then once a week it gets triple this in 1 session I would have thought it would be much more detrimental to muscles & ligaments risking tears/strains, in much the same way that a child (or adult) would feel the strain if they suddenly tripled thier exercise.

I am not trying to disagree with anybody, this is just a thought.

> If you want to apply it to faster growing animals  how much exercise does a 9 month old wolf get - I'll bet it's a bit more than 45 minutes a day.   

Dogs are not wolves & when a wolf pack moves it isn't a forced walk that domestic dogs have, Wolves only move to find food & do not hunt everday. The age at which the growth plates close is different in wolves to dogs, they close earlier in wolves(through natural evolution-not breeding by design)

Forced exercise(as in lead walking were the dog has no choice but to walk)is not like free running when the dog can rest when it wants

I've seen SBTs that have been over walked as young dogs to muscle them up, their hindquarters are so muscled up they cannot move freely & in old age suffer from the damage done to their legs due to the growth plates being damaged

>If a pup is used to 20 mins a day & then once a week it gets triple this in 1 session I would have thought it would be much more detrimental to muscles & ligaments risking tears/strains

I agree absolutely. Short weekday walks followed by a long weekend one is what sees dogs in the vet with strains on a Monday morning. Fitness has to be built up slowly over time by gradually increasing the amount of exercise.

And too much exercise before the skeleton is complete can result in over-done muscle which can itself distort the still-soft frame. It's so important to get the right balance - not too much, not too little.

I guess my argument can be summed up with a few quotes from this website - it's to do with horses but the principles apply equally to all mammals:

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-exclusives/start-young-horse.aspx

"Studies have shown that unrestricted turnout exercise 24/7 results in better bone density and reduced developmental orthopedic disease (DOD). A young horse confined to a stall does not develop the bone density of a youngster that is given the opportunity to exercise. Exercise restriction retards normal joint development, creating a longer opportunity and greater risk to incur DOD."

"Withholding exercise in the first months and years predisposes a horse to a myriad of joint or tendon issues later in his athletic life. Confining a young horse leads to varying degrees of atrophy throughout his body, but especially reduces the thickness of his joint cartilage. Thinned cartilage is more at risk of injury."

I really do think that the 5 minutes a month rule is potentially harmful just as overexercising a young dog would be.    5 minutes a month per walk but repeat that walk several times a day may be a better way for people who are  unsure which side of the fence to come down on - but if it's a single walk then that dog is losing out on the physical stimulation for the body to develop fully - it's more than likely also missing out on socialisation as for many animals the majority of socialisation will take place on walks. 

If anyone has a link to any research to the contrary it'd be interesting to read.  

> I guess my argument can be summed up with a few quotes from this website - it's to do with horses but the principles apply equally to all mammals:

Er Dogs are not Horses & they are not advocating enforced exercise as in being lead on a bridle 24/7 are they ?. My dogs have unrestricted free exercise were they decide if they want to run around, play, chase each other, what they don't have is enforced exercise. My oldest BC is a smooth coat & is clearly well muscled up & a very fit dry dog, my bitch, who came to me last October, has muscled up too She has never had so much freedom-all she needs to do now is grow some coat

My puppy does have enforced rest periods, these are linked to his meals & also to give the adults some free time from him(the cats as well)

I really do think that the 5 minutes a month rule is potentially harmful just as overexercising a young dog would be

Oh dear, where do you get research like this from, or is it just your opinion?

You can not compare a puppy to any other mammal, human, horse, cat, rodent, all are completely different, built and designed for different reasons and lifestyles, with different lifespans.

The 5 minute guide is not something that a few dog lovers have put together it is a universal guide from Crufts to Scrufts, from the UK to Australia that most breeders will pass on, it has been developed from research and experts, not just what someone thinks should happen.

It is far better to follow guidelines set out from those in the dog world, than cause years of damage to a dog in the future.

The following is taken from a hip dyspasia site, but as you can see, exercise doesn't just effect HD

"They should not be encouraged to walk or run long distances or for long periods of time.  Excessive leash walking, for example, can cause repetitive stress injuries to their developing joints and muscles. Excessive leash walking would be similar to walking on a treadmill, and should not be confused with the leisurely stroll taking time to smell the flowers. There is a huge difference between a puppy sprinting around the yard, stopping, and resuming play at will, and one who is kept moving at a consistent pace for the same period of time........the risk of repetitive stress injury to a puppy's growing body is a concern in the most general of senses.  All joints, bones, muscles, ligaments, are at risk of injury if a pup is encouraged or forced to repeat the same motion over and over for an extended period of time"

The above snippit can be found in it's full context under 'exercise' in the following link.

http://www.goldendoodles.com/hd_mini_tutorial.htm

>Studies have shown that unrestricted turnout exercise

Yes, puppies and growing dogs (and adults too!) generally have free access to their garden to play in, unless their owners are at work fulltime and haven't arranged a dog-walker. People don't trot their growing horses on tarmac for hours, nor should people do the same with dogs.

>"Withholding exercise in the first months and years

There's a massive difference between withholding exercise and controlling it. We're not talking about keeping a dog kennelled throughout its puppyhood.

I would agree if a dog spent most of it's time crated (as seems to be accepted norm by some mainly US owners) then the 5 minute rule would be woefully little exercise.

Mind you I don't think more exercise for a dog that is confined for most of it's day can be good for it at all.

The five minute rule refers to FORMAL LEAD EXERCISE, in addition to free movement and play during it's development (equating to free turn out).

Also horses are naturally herd grazing prey species that do keep on their feet and on the move.

The Predators like wolves and Big Cats in general spend most of their days resting between brief bouts of activity, for youngsters this would be play, for adults hunting, young big cats and Canids are left while the adults go hunting and do not start hunting until almost fully grown. .

The growth rate of a horse is also very different to that of a puppy, slower.

When I put up the link about exercise I was trying to emphasise that over exercise is dangerous,(over-exercise as in pushing way past the 5 min rule)

And you're right, it is.

If everyone knew about the 5-minute rule I wouldn't have met an exhausted and stressed 5-month GR pup being taken along the Cornish cliff path on a very hot summer day - she'd already been taken 5 miles and had another 4 miles to go before they reached their car.

Moonmaiden - just for  you here is a link to a site which discusses the issue with reference to dogs

http://homepage.mac.com/puggiq/V4N3/V4N3Working.html

It's balanced - there are experts who give their views both ways - but I think you'll agree that the majority disagree with you and that is on far greater levels of exercise than 5 minutes per month.   It's clear to me that the 5 minutes per month rule is designed for large breeds and breeds with susceptibility to hip and joint  problems in later life  and has become adopted by over anxious owners who are inadvertantly doing more harm than good to their animals - for the majority of small and medium sized dogs it is conservative. 

What are you going to tell me now - it doesn't apply to sled dogs ?

 

> What are you going to tell me now - it doesn't apply to sled dogs ?

The link of course is to an American site & my friends who have Malamutes & race them certainly do NOT start training as early as 6-8 months over serious distances nor pulling the weights that the adults do.

Please refer me to a UK based site that shows the same bias towards enforced long periods of exercise for very young(ie under 6 months)puppies. My puppy has way more than 20 minutes a day exercise, however none of it is enforced, I don't even do my Obedience training by enforcement(ie on a lead)

You obviously think the the 5 minutes refers to the total amount of exercise the puppy should have-it refers only to enforced exercise(ie on lead), muscle is built by free running & correct food & toning is helped by enforced(ie on lead)walking

Sorry I wasn't aware that quoting an American source was invalid ! 

Nobody is arguing for long periods of enforced exercise for puppies - I'm just saying I think that 5 minutes per month is conservative for the majority (not all) breeds. 

Here is a question for you because I think you are making a false distinction between free running and "enforced exercise".  Why should 45 minutes lead walking be more harmful than 45 minutes tearing about on the park for a 6 month old dog ?    The impact forces from free running will massively exceed anything that the dog will experience on the lead - if you doubt that look at studies that use force plates showing impact forces from walking and running.  Additionally osteo arthritis is commonly caused not by over use but by injury - injury is far more likely to occur in free play than lead walking.  

When you talk about toning what do you mean - muscle tone is really just low body fat and muscle bulk combined - it's got nothing to do with the type of exercise undertaken.  

>The link of course is to an American site

What? What difference does it make which country information comes from.Exercise is exercise no matter where you live.Are dogs grown differently over there or something??

As i have stated many time before,my dogs would go nuts on the 5 minute per month rule,I've never followed it and have always had sound dogs. Having said this i don't exercise them into the ground either,but 5 minutes per month of age has never been enough,no matter what the breed.

Why should 45 minutes lead walking be more harmful than 45 minutes tearing about on the park for a 6 month old dog ?

I have to say that my 5 month old puppies come and play in the fields with my older dogs and if they were on the lead I wouldn't have them out for so long. The difference would be that on a lead they would be constantly walking. Playing in the fields yes they may run about but they can exercise as they want and they are often found pottering while the big ones exercise to a greater degree.  They do less in that time than they would on a lead. They have far shorter exercise periods on leads.

As I have said before the 5 min rule is a useful rule of thumb for young pups, as I do see many 3 to 5 month pups dragged around far past tiredness and the owners seem totally unaware of the signs, especially in breeds that will keep going no matter what.

I have owned two breeds, with the first it would have been easy to over exercise, with my current one as real babies they would simply stop and refuse to go any further.  My current breed is one designed fro stamina and to work all day once mature, but they are also a breed who know how to look after themselves.

I think the rule can be jigged a bit once the fastest growth phase is over, which varies breed to breed.  The jigging would be to increase the number of walks as opposed to the duration of each over the 5 minute per month rule.

I can't see what the problem if for a 6 month old pup of even active breeds being kept to 30 minute road walks at a time.

As I don't drive I am more aware of how far I take my pups because they would have to walk on lead to off lead exercise.  Our best walks are 20 minutes each way.

My pups get unlimited time and exercise opportunity playing with the other dogs at home.

>Here is a question for you because I think you are making a false distinction between free running and "enforced exercise".  Why should 45 minutes lead walking be more harmful than 45 minutes tearing about on the park for a 6 month old dog ?    The impact forces from free running will massively exceed anything that the dog will experience on the lead - if you doubt that look at studies that use force plates showing impact forces from walking and running.

My dogs do not & never will free run in a"park"in fields where there are no other dogs yes, but parks no as other dog owners cause problems with uncontrolled dogs

When a dog is free running it has the choice to rest when it feels tired, on an enforced walk it doesn't QED My adults play all day(literally), my 4 month old puppy plays until he feels tired & then comes in for a long rest of his own choice

>When you talk about toning what do you mean - muscle tone is really just low body fat and muscle bulk combined - it's got nothing to do with the type of exercise undertaken. 

Ask any racing  Greyhound or Whippet  owner, they exercise their dogs in a"free running way"to build up the muscle & walk them to finish off the toning

As to the American site all the contributors have vested interests from a quick look, they are all connected to people who race their dogs, rather than being independent orthopedic specialists quoting from studies done on different regimes on test groups of dogs

I wonder if anyone can provide links to studies where this topic has been researched in dogs?  I did read the links but none provided a set of scientific data where control groups were used or Veterinary end results were studied.  We had some very good links on the spay/neuter topic, is there not something similar to support the idea of controlled exercise?

It does seem a reasonable concept but I admit it confused me too.  5 minutes per day?  per outing?  how many outings per day?  what kind of outing, ie, on-leash or not?   Would there not be differences by breed?  Wouldn't terrain matter?  For instance hard pavement is surely more detrimental than any kind of outing on softer ground, wouldn't you think?  Until the ground gets too soft.  And of course I have deep snow to contend with, another whole set of stresses induced by bounding through snow.  As a dog owner trying to do the right thing it does get awfully confusing.

I appreciate that there are many experienced people on here and their ideas are valuable and I thank them for contributing.  Sometimes though, it is hard to tell where some experience originates and links to data sources, for me anyway, are nice to corroborate opinions based on experience, where possible.

I would say that is impossible to make any general rule for a species that is so diverse.

My two breeds have completely different exercise requirements.
In 10 minutes a boxer puppy could have potentially exhausted itself by zooming around at breakneck speed , this is more likely when two or more are playing together. I generally call 'time' every few minutes to cool things down.
Cavaliers pups could happily mooch around for much longer and it's only distance from home that dictates how much exercise they do.
Im a dyed-in-the-wool horse person who was taught that animals should always be cooled down before home.
I took a couple of my boxers out walking with a friends two Rotts and in the first 10 minutes mine had covered miles careering around and hers probably walked only as far as we humans - walking and sniffing. (the dogs were comparable in ages and health.)
What I cant stand to see is country fairs and the like, where poor pups of all breeds can be seen being dragged around for hours (on leads). Not much mileage -but hours of misery.
The bone density argument makes good ( scientific) sense but would have to overcome the widely held belief amongst many dog people, that too much exercise, somehow, makes the otherwise perfect specimen, too leggy, to shelly etc.

My opinions are purely anecdotal of course. 

I think we are mostly discussing formal lead exercise when we talk about the five minutes rule, which would normally be on hard surfaces, and be of a constant repetitive nature. 

I think we nearly all agree that freedom of movement and play should b e dictated by the pup itself plus a bit of common sense as you say if a pup is over doing things with adults (though most adults wouldn't allow play for so long as to overtire a pup), or much bigger pups.

Hi B.

I didn't think that the OP stipulated on-lead exercise and I was replying to her post in the main. At the age quoted I would hope that at least some of the 19 week old pup's was off lead.

I think also that the breeders of some breeds would disagree with the statement  that freedom of movement and play should b e dictated by the pup itself and I'm thinking of the giant breeds here.
Having had two incidents with boxers in the past where there were broken bones, I don't allow adults free play with young ones. The boxer T-Bone manouver is deadly! .....Again breed specific.

Have to agree I only allow one adult to play at a time with a  pup.  If two adults are playing and pup wants to join in then one of the adults gets called away, but of course this is easy with all the dogs living in the house and under supervision, not so easy if dogs have a big paddock or large garden to get really going in.  A friend had a pup die as the result of getting in the way of two adults having a body slamming game.

I think the whole five minute rule is a guideline, primarily for novice owners, who haven't the experience or knowledge to easily gauge the level of exercise suitable for their new pup.

I am sure that most people use their common sense, but as more and more people have not been brought up with animals it is amazing how little understanding people have of animals and their needs and abilities.

We see it all the time with unreasonable expectations of behaviour and house-training from pups, as you say people dragging young pups on long outings, taking dogs out on hot days and dragging them around the seaside in the full heat of the day.

I had never heard of the five minute rule until a couple of years ago, and often got asked by puppy buyers about how much exercise pups needed.  When I heard about this rule of thumb it seemed to fit in with what I was advising with the option to make it more than one walk with energetic pups if it didn't seem enough by five months or so.

When I mentioned the concept to fellow breeders in my breed they found it helpful advice for their new puppy owners too, as some had had new owners mention that they had taken out their new pup fro an hours lead walk at four months and so on.

One of the things that's easy to deduce is that not everyone is going to agree on timings.  When we got our first dog many years ago there was very little information about how much exercise was ok.  Even now when you read all the advice that is available in books and pet food puppy guides they all suggest you should not over exercise - but again don't tell you how long or how much is ok.  Understandable as they cater to all owners and breeds!

I agree about the novice owner.  A potential new owner who might be researching the responsibilities of dog ownership is hit over and over again about the importance of exercise.  It just isn't always clear that you shouldn't do it all from day one!!  One of the things that the 5 minute guide gives the puppy owner is the sense that they should curb their own enthusiasm.  Of course they want to take the pup out and about, of course they want it to meet lots of new things, socialisation after all is so important.  BUT even if they do think 5 minutes is too little, even the most niaive new owner will know that there is a big diff between 5 and 50 minutes so if it just helps them to think it through, then it is good advice. 

It would be helpful for some of these puppy books to include why a pup shouldn't be over exercised and an explanation about the damage that can be done.  Also information about how to help your pup channel his energy.  I'd like to see something about the difference between exercise walks and training walks.  Not that you can't do both together but how that training walks (the pre planned ones to that include new experiences or training objectives) can really help focus the puppy's mind too.  Some novices may think that a long walk is all that is needed to tire a pup out.  We found that concentrating was far more tiring.  Even now at 8 months old our latest dog is more easily tired out by his KC good citizens classes than almost anything else!