Brainless
The breeder I got my male off has just had another litter and had his pups docked no problems;  he is near Weston-super-Mare, so if your friend is in the Bristol vicinity like you and she wants a name would be happy to get it and PM you.

That would be good I could give it her if she has problems next time she breeds.

I know of several GSP litters that have been docked so it is still possible but as mentioned, does need some considerable planning. What worries me more is that tails will become the focus area in breeding plans and dogs will be bred just to produce good tails. This is fine as long as it is not to the detroment of the rest of the breed standard and health and temperament are still key drivers in which dogs are used. Great tails will be worthless if poor specimens are produced or less than acceptable temperaments.

Can i ask how people are still having litters docked after the 06.04.07?  Gunner who was your breeder?

>Can i ask how people are still having litters docked after the 06.04.07?

By fulfilling the requirements of the law: specifically "The puppy must be presented with the dam, and a statement provided by the
owner (or the owner's representative) that the dog is intended to work in one of the specified areas. Additional evidence related to the particular type of work the dog will perform is also required."

Hi Jeangenie,

Thanks for clarifying the law, it is one I am familiar with having owned docked breed since the 80's ans one I have been successful showing and breeding.  I was asking who Gunners breeder was as it appears it is still Ok to dock puppies post the april ban? 

I know doxking still goes on, apparently a litter of boxers were docked recently, so I heard from a farmer in my local, I phoned the RSPCA but nothing was done.

I know litters are being 'docked in Ireland' and several hundred £££ beinf added to the price, what is the point?

>as it appears it is still Ok to dock puppies post the april ban?

Yes it is, as long as the legal requirements are fulfilled. These are:

(vi) evidence that the owner of the dog, or an agent or employee of the owner most likely to be using the dog, will be using the dog for work in connection with lawful pest control;

(vii) a current shotgun or firearm certificate issued to the owner of the dog, or to the agent or employee of the owner most likely to be using the dog for work in connection with the lawful shooting of animals;

(viii) a letter from a gamekeeper, a landoccupier (or their agent), a person with shooting rights, a shoot organiser, a club official, a person representing the National Working Terrier Federation, or a person engaged in lawful pest control, stating that the breeder of the dog whose tail is to be docked is known to him or her and that dogs bred by that breeder have been used (as the case may be) on his or her land, or in his or her shoot, or for pest control.

Boxers, however, are not one of the exempted breeds, so any docking in the the UK would be docked illegally.

There was a recent prosecution in Scotland that featured in a media a couple of weeks ago.  It was a farmer from perthshire, who I believe had JRT's and pled ignorance.  I can't remember what the court disposal was but in Scotland this was only the second conviction since the ban.  Does anyone know if there has been any convictions in England?

There was a Rottie breeder )backyard) who was jailed and said she didn't know it was illegal, all the enquirers wanted docked pups so she docked them.

To be honest I wonder how many people outside doggy circles know it is illegal, certainly never heard anything on any news program etc.

My vet is busier than ever docking tails. She does far more than she ever used to do.

That makes me think that even when laymen were banned from docking that many breeders still docked their won as no proof of docking was needed, now that it has to be documented people having pups docked have to go to the Vet for it.

I know for a fact that many breeders continued to dock their own pups, mainly because a lot of vets would not band, and also docked badly, wrong lenght etc.

I didnt realise that if you took docs and proof with you to the vets etc that the tail could be docked, thats a good thing tho as you could take your working bitch and show she is a working breed and hence so would the pups hopefully.

I thought it only stops you from showing your dog to have the tail docked ?
I didnt think you could be arrested for it if you dock a litter??

>I didnt think you could be arrested for it if you dock a litter??

If anyone other than a vet does, yes.

This outlines the requirements.

A lot of breeders did continue to dock their own litters but some did it because they thought they were above the law. I know a lot of vets won't dock becasue the RCVS frown upon it

I still know of a vet that will dock and supply the certificate. 

I was in the UK last week (norm. N.Ire.)  And was reading in an advert paper many dogs who are docked. They people are charging a great deal more for these puppies as it is now "rare" after the ban.

How do they do it?............

Hop a boat to Ireland and get it done OR do it themselves and get a vet in Ire. to document it. Easy peasy if you really want it done TBH....

We have a pup in our shelter no more than 12 weeks....docked. average folk do not honestly know there is a ban. IF they are going to start to prosecute people then they need to put out TV and radio adverts between the soaps....since that is when a lot of these folks will be paying some amount of attention.

Docking is against the law...it should be adhered to...but I own a docked breed and I kind of like him that way. I wouldn't do it or get it done. But I would possibly go get one else where if I wanted just a pet and not a show or performance dog.

You could be arrested for it but i dont think its high on the list of priorities of police to do so.....hence why so many get away with it.

I couldn't believe it the other day when somebody phone work and asked if we could dock a 15 week old cocker spaniel, i was so shocked i could only mutter that it is far too late to do it now as it has to be done before 3 days of age unless there is a medical problem. I wish i had explained things better, but i was so gobsmacked!!

From what I understand, which is just on the forum here, that docking can only be done on "working" dogs.  I dont mean the working group dogs, but your sporting dogs that are working in the field.  But how at 2 or 3 days old, can you know whether this pup is suited for working, or just pet?  Other than by looking at what you bred together, and praying that you are choosing the right dog to dock. 

If I am misunderstanding, please do correct me.  But I have been wondering this since the post started, and cant get it out of my head.

You just dock the whole litter. In a well bred litter of spaniels I would be very dissapointed if any of the pups were completely unsuitable for working. They are unlikely to be all field trial material, but they should all be capable of being trained as a shooting dog. As I understand it, you are not obliged to sell all the pups to working homes, just to have bred the litter with the intention of them being worked. (as evidenced by provision of a shotgun certificate or letter from a gamekeeper / shoot owner etc.) 

Most of the working spaniel owners I know try their best to get any pups they breed sold to working homes by preference. Some even refuse to sell them solely as pets. However, this has much more to do with the requirements of owning a working type spaniel, rather than anything to do with docking.

A vet of my aquaintance (who still provides a docking service), told me he actually finds it more straightforward now, as the law is more specific about what needs to be done whereas before it was all a bit vague.

Working spaniels tend to only have approx one quarter to one third removed, so they don't end up with some of the alleged disadvantages of a dog that has been docked very short.

Thank you for clearing this up for me.