I just read about puppy development.  It basically says that a young pups (8 to 12wks) ability to fetch shows its willingness and ability to work for you, I assume this applies to how well your dog is going to accept training from you.  Now, mine fetches but needs a treat to swap the item fetched, SO does anyone know what this means?  Am I going to have a chance training him to high standards or with me having to bribe him to drop the item is he more likley to be average?  Prob a hard Qu to answer really but if I put the effort in with him, is there a good chance, he also does all the basic commands, hes just 4 months now but has been doing all this a while.

> a young pups (8 to 12wks) ability to fetch shows its willingness and ability to work for you

LOL, oh dear, I've had it then My pup doesn't do fetch & never has !!!

I have taught him all the basics & how to close cupboard doors/draws/fridge etc, sit-up (from being laid down), 'back-up' to walk bacwards, 'round' which means he has to go around the back of me and end up sat at my left side, he's learnt 'looking' which is for him to keep still while I open his mouth to check teeth/inspect ears/toes etc..He'll 'drop' on command or will drop a toy/object as soon as I hold it.... but.. HE WILL NOT FETCH (I don't know if that's a sign of his stupidity or inteligence - why fetch when you have an owner to go get it?? )

> Now, mine fetches but needs a treat to swap the item fetched, SO does anyone know what this means?

Could it be that he has learnt that he'll get a treat in exchange for the toy (rather than the treat rewarding him giving up the toy)?

wow, sounds like youve done really well to me n if he does all that who cares if he doesnt fetch!!! 

Mines 9 months old, so we have 5 months more training in than you

I am suprised at what I've managed to teach him, as Mastiffs aren't generally known for thier obedience skills (& I'm not known for my training skills ), but he will do ANYTHING for food, which has made things very, very easy

I have found that he is most attentive at meal times (no suprise there), so everything has been taught to him with his full food bowl in sight so he is extreamly willing to please and eager to learn (despite being somewhat slow on the up-take, bless him). I have always made sure that training sessions are kept very short so he doesn't get bored/frustrated/confused (and because his brain can't cope with too much at once, lol).

There is always going to be at least 1 thing that each pup will take much longer to learn (Buster has only recently managed to go through the night without weeing/pooing in the house )

Don't get disheartened by your pup not giving up his toy without a treat, 4 months old is still young and you have taught him the basics (which some people stuggle with for the life of the dog!!!). If you always try the 'drop' in a certain place/time try altering it, eg. if you normally train in the living room swap to the kitchen, or try just before a meal - maybe put his food down when he has a toy in his mouth & say 'drop' when he drops the toy for his food?

He will drop most things (with the exception of hair bands and dirty underwear!) I tell him to in the house-then runs straight to the treat cupboard and sits there lookin very pleased with himself eagerly awaiting his treat, its mainly when we are in the feilds, he wants to keep the item especially if its a ball or stick hes found whilst we are out!

Bless him, waiting at the treat cupboard, that's so sweet

Have you tried extra special treats when you take him out, liked chopped liver/cheese (anything stinky & tasty the pup would like). I think it's a case of just keep trying, he's obviously having so much fun exploring the outside world he doesn't want to give up his treasures. Things they can do inside the house can be forgotton outside with all the distractions (or sometimes they just don't associate the command with a new place).

mastifflover don't stress, mastiff types don't fetch, at least mine never have

they are very logical and mine have clearly never seen the point. if you throw something they will get it the first time for you then look at you like your bonkers for throwing it again. classic bullmastiff behaviour and our mastiff when we had him was the same.

>they are very logical and mine have clearly never seen the point. if you throw something they will get it the first time for you then look at you like your bonkers for throwing it again.

That's a dalmatian's attitude too. One fetch is being helpful - if you throw the thing again then obviously you don't want it so only someone very stupid would keep bringing it back ....

lol, its actually something i love about them, i'm not one for the simpering obedience, i like a bit of a challenge

My previous dog was a dalmatian, and he was much more willing in most ways than the current collie/lab x, which is quite self-willed, but he could never get the hang of fetching something. He'd chase it while it moved, then get bored and give up once it stopped, whereas the current dog will chase and retrieve anything, any number of times, he just loves that game.

> One fetch is being helpful - if you throw the thing again then obviously you don't want it so only someone very stupid would keep bringing it back ....

How true

Retrieving is natural instinct that has been selected for in some breeds, and not given any real selection in others.

So while you would expect most Gundog breeds to be natural retrievers and when trained really good at this, you would not expect retrieving to be a priority=y for a breed like an Norwegian Elkhound (lets face it a half ton elk is a tall order to retrieve), and therefore some will like the retrieve game and some won't, but they are unlikely to be natural retrievers.

I don't think it is a reliable pointer in a young puppy to be honest as games with toys and retrieving seem common in all young pups, but in my breed unless retrieving and playing with toys is encouraged they loose interest by the time they are adult.

For my lot toys are a waste of time unless they are edible or when young can be chewed and destroyed.  Mine loved to chew any plastic food containers, but would never tough something like a rubber bone, and tuggies just get left in the garden to rot, might get tossed in the air and killed a couple;e of times a year, or when first given.

Astarte
mastifflover don't stress, mastiff types don't fetch, at least mine never have

a friend of ours has a bordeaux and he plays fetch, quite well too,
ive phoned people about adult terriers they have for sale and have asked if they play ball/retrieve and some have said its a terrier they dont retrieve, thats absolute rubbish 4 of my terriers retrieve

Our border collie is fetch mad and carries his own "fetch" ususally a stick for ages. My Spaniel has one toy that is a "fetch" only, and if he wants to play he arrives next to me with i is his mouth, we play tug for a bit then he gets bored and goes off.
I do think its type of dog, the border comes when called, the spaniel comes half way smells something and follows that , thinks "what was I doing?" and comes on the off chance it was the right thing to do.
Jake (border) is great he will fetch all day, gets weary sits for a bit with his foot on it, then gets up "leave" and off we go again. Whistler (spaniel) thinks its daft bringing it back if you chuck it again, he just finds pooh to roll in.

Viv

Bernese obviously have the same outlook on life as Dally's then, ie once being helpfull, twice...just silly of you to throw it away again then Mum!!!!
Aileen

I'm quite relieved that fetch isn't every dogs cup of tea I've tried & tried to get Buster interested in playing fetch but he really doesn't see the point The best he's managed is he walked after the toy that was thrown, picked it up, dropped it again then looked am me like I was an idoit
My old mutt is a different story, he'll fetch anything

Polo's like that! Very accurate that 'Complete Standard Poodle' book LOL!

My Dobermann is retrieve crazy. Our last 2 would chase a toy a couple of times and then run off with it and refuse to cooperate any further! I really got my current one focused on interacting with me with toys though as the puppy biting was completely hellish. If anything he is too obsessed. I'm always getting a toy dropped in my lap when I sit down and often if we're out walking in a place where we have played fetch in the past he'll go frantic trying to find something to pick up...plastic bottles, bits of rope, plastic container lids etc..even started picking up beer cans at one point On other walks where we've never played fetch he will just sniff and chase and run around like a more normal dog. Bit of a strange one.

> I'm quite relieved that fetch isn't every dogs cup of tea

I think the can't see the point in fetching breeds/dogs are likely to be in the majority, unless their owners really want to train them to do it.

I can't imagine anythign worse than trying to have a nice walk with a dog that wants me to play fetch constantly, I want i to enjoy having a bit of a run around, enjoy a sniff, while I enjoy the scenery and birdsong, and both of us to get the benefit of the excersise.

Others see dog walking differently.

> Could it be that he has learnt that he'll get a treat in exchange for the toy (rather than the treat rewarding him giving up the toy)?

That could well be what's going on in his little mind!  Devious things, dogs

My Soli learnt very quickly that she would get a treat in exchange for a toy - so she'd only give it up if the treat was there for the taking.  Now I've delayed the treat a bit and had her work more, she's at the point where she drops the ball in order to get the treat, usually in my hand.  If she doesn't drop it in my hand - she will sometimes try to drop it a few feet away as she runs to me - then I put my hands behind my back and say "try again!" (my cue for 'keep trying, you're nearly there but try a bit harder!').  When I do that, she (very enthusiastically!!) launches herself at the ball, picks it up and tries to drop it in my hand   As she only gets the treat once the ball is in my hand, she's picking it up quick!

hayley it was ment jokingly, i couldn't possibly have been commenting on every dog of every mastiff type ever... though i must say my lot have never ever been fetchers.

My Spaniel was never keen on the retrieve, it's a bit of a hit and miss and more a matter of 'don't ask me to do it more than a couple of times' but I started teaching her the retrieve as recommended by Helen Phillips in her book 'Clicker Gundog' and I'm absolutely amazed how she got the idea within a few training sessions and loves doing this game.  It's still early days yeat and we're still in the house and not outside yet, but we'll see

I didn't even train the retrieve (knowingly, at least) and now if she's not sleeping she likes it when I play retrieve with her quite a lot! Can be anything - will retrieve kibble if asked! It's easy enough, she drops it in my lap and I throw it. No exercise required from me. :D

However, no matter how hard I try, cannot get her to retrieve on a walk.

i also have 9 rats :_)

the article refers to guide dogs an police sniffer dogs, this is the first comand tthey are taught and if they cant do it they dont make the criteria

Exactly it is horses for courses.