So what does everyone think about todays new announcement? Good idea or another KC plan doomed to fail? I thought it all seemd a trifle complicated but otherwise quite fun...but no doubt the papers will be full of letters slating it in a week or two!

Think it looks good, but wont be easy in the smaller breeds. Like the idea of it being judged after BOB and BP - at least there should be a decent audience and cant overlap breed judging like the stakes so often did.

A lot of people seem to think it will just be another way for the top breeders to win more. Maybe so, but I like the idea and fully intend to take part when and if the possibility arises. Sounds like fun to me, and no need to wait around for breeders stakes and have them clash with the breed classes!

Pray do tell, haven't seen anything in Our Dogs on-line, where is it detailed?

The KC sent out a press release a few days ago, I get them e-mailed to me. It can be read here:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1807/23/5/3

It's also in the kennel Gazette.

Looks good only little down side I can see is you must have 4 dogs entered at the show also. ( all bred by same person)  

Do you think this is also an encouragement for entries? Just a thought.

>Do you think this is also an encouragement for entries?

This was my first thought.  I do like the idea though and think it could be fun!

I like it to, I think entering on the day also means that if you have four of your breeding there you can choose whether it is worth entering based on how they did. Well the males at least if entries have to be in before judging ends.

I also like the fact it's free.

Yes free is a good incentive isn't it!

I somehhow have a feeling after 2009, if it proves successful, it won't be free.

Do all "top breeders" follow the methods that we would like to with our dogs?  Haven't seen what it entails etc. yet, so I'm sure that I'll read with interest.

Do all "top breeders" follow the methods that we would like to with our dogs?

Afraid I don't understand the question?

Some of the questions and answers are quite funny. 

Irish Kennel Club have anounced something as well

New Junior Champion Award announced by the Irish Kennel Club
Date: 9th May 2008

The Irish Kennel Club have announced details of another award aimed at promoting entries at Championship events and making it beneficial for exhibitors to continue exhibiting their younger stock.

The title will be awarded to a Dog/Bitch winning five (5) Junior classes, having been graded Excellent at Championship Show level. The owner / agent must apply to the Irish Kennel Club Show Department detailing the shows at which the classes have been won. The title will be added to the name of the exhibit when confirmation has been received by the owner or agent from the IKC show department. Exhibitors can backdate their dogs wins from January 1st to contribute to the awarding of the title.

The introduction of this new title brings the IKC further in to line with numerous other FCI member countries who already have a similar arrangement in place for their exhibitors.

I also like the fact it's free. 

Yes free from the KC is always good

Ha - free from the KC is amazing! I am sometimes lucky enough to have 4 at one show, but it will be difficult for those outside the, shall we say, "well known" breeders to accumulate 20 points, so get the feeling that it will be the usual names in the final. Still think the basic idea is good, and better than the previous stakes, though would like them to make sure that each group at least have 2 or 3 representatives. Rather that sticking at 20 points period they could take the top 3 or so from each group.

one of the problems I have is getting 4 to a show. I tend to share travel as often as I can really for the long driving as it is hard going on your own.  We are over 300 miles to Stafford. 

It will be interesting to see how it kicks of seems a better idea than the dreaded AC breeder scheme !!!   think that debate will be going on for many a year.

Do all "top breeders" follow the methods that we would like to with our dogs?

Afraid I don't understand the question?

As in the numbers bred and the ages that they breed their dogs at?

I don't know anything about this as I haven't got my dog paper, so I don't know what the rules are and what it is entailing.

barbara you need to subscribe to a DECENT pubication I f you had Dog World you would see its front page news!

Barbara - go to the Dog World website http://www.dogworld.co.uk/home.aspx and you can read it.

It's on page 5 of Our Dogs online B., in detail.

M.

Erm I already gave the link earlier to the KCs website with all the details. Here it is again:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1807/23/5/3

Doesn't mention if the 'breeding stock' has to be entire?
I assume so as it is an opportunity to show off said breeding stock.. unless it will be the same as your normal shows where you can have written permission to show under certain circumstances...

In which case, doesn't seem to me to be that much different to normal shows, unless I'm missing something - apart from the 'free' bit

I used to subscribe to the decent publication (used to write breed notes), but I found I was not reading half of it so seemed a rather expensive way to buy puppy litter.  Now if they had an on-line subscription it would save a few more trees.

It simply means if a breeder has four dogs of the breed entered at the show, then after BOB they can go into the ring with their group to compete against any other group of four there from another breeder.  The breeder will have to be in attendance, and the dogs are there already.

I often show two dogs and travel with a girl who has two more of mine, and then there will be various ones of various ages from 16 months to 10 years in an entry.  I gave up on the breeders stakes as it was hard to get people to stay or to run around waiting for the stakes classes.  With this new venture they just need to stay for BOB, or if you win the group.

Much easier to keep or find your team at the breed ring, and I also like the fact that matching outfits are not going to be part of it..

In which case, doesn't seem to me to be that much different to normal shows, unless I'm missing something - apart from the 'free' bit

It's exactly the same as the current breeders stakes, the only difference is there is now stakes for each breed rather than just for each group and the judging is done by the breed judge immediately after BOB in the breed ring.

You don't need permission to show neutered dogs/bitches any more, you just inform the KC it has been done.

>Doesn't mention if the 'breeding stock' has to be entire?

But it's not the "stock" you want to show off, it's what has been bred!  What makes a good show dog and what makes a good stud/brood isn't always the same.  some of the top dogs in my breed come from some very non show quality bitches with obvious faults....That have just been bred out!

I saw this article but couldn't concentrate on it cos I had a headache

but from what I gathered it seemed like a good idea, though it might be a while before I can get to have a go (unless I can persuade 4 of the pups to turn up to one show lol)

will keep an eye on it and see what develops....  

But it's not the "stock" you want to show off, it's what has been bred!

Oh ok... I'm a bit daft then.. cos when I read the link from the KC it said this:

The competition creates a new arena where breeders can demonstrate their breeding skills and take pride in showing off their stock.

>The competition creates a new arena where breeders can demonstrate their breeding skills and take pride in showing off their stock.

Call me thick, but isn't that what entering the breed classes is about? 

To me (in our breed) it will just be the same people taking the 'top' breeder awards as usual only difference will be that the competition will take place at a more convenient place and time at the show?

In Bedlingtons we now have the Top dog of the Year awards.  To be eligible for entry (by invitation) you have to have won a CC, RCC, or Best Puppy during the previous year.  3 Judges judge at the same time and no-one knows who they are until the day.  Entry isn't dependent on owning or breeding a certain number of dogs, only on the quality of the dog/s which evens the field a little.  What is interesting is that even those breeding only a litter every few years can produce very high quality dogs through judicious breeding which are eligible and have as much chance of winning as those who breed several litters a year

Sorry I ment "breeding stock" they want to show off what they produce....

Sorry. me not being clear! :D

in theory this sounds like an interesting idea but I wonder how popular it will be in practise. If the breeder of the 4 dogs is reliant on their new owners to take them to the shows and then wait about until after BOB then this might work but my feeling is that too many folk now want to rush off as soon as their dog has been judged - the challenge for BOB is often supported by only a handful of exhibitors  -everyone else has usually packed up and left !.

So unless the breeder is the one to transport the four dogs entered ( easy enough for as smalll breed but problematic for larger dogs ) then the logistics of this might be it's downfall - of course even if you can get the dogs there yourself you have to have three other handlers willing to stay to the end in order to compete.

I know that these difficulties already occur with our present breeders stakes classes but in truth only a handful of breeders in any breed bother with these - ....and I suspect it will be the same handful that will enter the new breeders classes  !!!

Yvonne

In the breeds I'm involved in most people stay to the end, and alot of people will support the BOB in the group ring, especially if it's someone who's only got their 1st or second BOB. 

Maybe it's different with different breeds and being in breeds which normally get less then 100 entries at crufts, averaging around the 40ish mark at most champ shows. I guess there isn't as  much waiting around as in those breeds with much bigger entries.

i think it can only be a good thing.

People looking for that breed will have lots of breeders to talk to before making their chioc and will hopefully improve breeding stock etc in the years to come.
Maybe?

I think in my breed too it is very rare for people not to see the BOB at least.  The only problem I can see is for the breed winners getting the people to stay until the group part, especially if the breed was first in the ring.   

I would hope the breeders groups would be judged before the groups proper, when all the breeds in a given group are finished.

I do think it will msot likely work best at Breed club champ shows and Group champ shows.

agree just wish the k/c would come up with a  ShCh class as same old ones keep changing places in our breed anyway so would be the same in NEW breeders class except IT,S FREE