I've nearly given up on the hope of finding an Alaskan Klee Kai in the UK

Me and my partner would like to get a dog in the New Year or even up til Easter

We don't live in a large house but neither is it small. Hence we wouldn't have room for a Husky, have room for a dog thats up to around 18inches tall.

We live near a RATHER LARGE expanse of grass which is perfect for dog walking, the perimeter is 5 miles.

We don't have a fenced garden but I don't feel that matters as I walk everywhere and alot! In fact we drive up every weekend to Brimham rocks and I go walking in the morning and the evening. I don't drive I walk!

Also the only time someone isn't in the house is between 9 and 12 as Partner is a baker and works weird hours^^

Then again I am just about to go back to being a student so ill be home most of the time!

We'd prefer a dog that didn't loose too much hair! I'd personally like an intelligent dog that will make me laugh and smile for many years.

So what breeds am I looking at!!

If you don't like dogs that lose a lot of hair I would avoid Spitz and that includes the klee klai unfortunately. Breeds with rough/wire/silky/woolly coats are your best bet for non shedding. A terrier of some description sounds like it would fit the bill?

Staffy sounds ideal!!  They are intelligent, easily trained and will definately make you laugh!

I really don't think Graeme would like a Staffy, I think they are CUTE though

By shedding I just meant hopefully not ALL the time^^

I know a dog will blow a couple of times a year

Not that I'm biased at all but I would definitely recommend a whippet. 
Very clever, but incredibly wilful too.  Mine make me laugh every day, they are very loving and have short hair, which takes minimal grooming - just a quick run over with the mitt every day.  They love to run and enjoy a good mooch around but they are equally happy snuggling on the sofa.  Perfect!

> By shedding I just meant hopefully not ALL the time^^
>

As someone said a spitz may not be ideal for you.

Agree a whippet may be ideal.

I wouldnt recommend ant breed of dog if your garden isnt fenced.

i would suggest fencing the garden, simply for the times where you cannot walk the dog to wee etc (what if your ill for example? simply letting it out to the garden knowing its safe would be much better)

also, why a wee dog? you could fit a larger dog in that space, many larger breeds take up surprisingly little space. i have known several people who have successfully had my large breed in a flat (hopefully about to become one of them!), many bigger breeds like to laze about a lot so internal space is not such an issue just a thought for you.

as the others said whippets are lovely, my sis has one and shes a sweety, barely any shedding either, but not my taste for cuddling, shes a bit boney

what sort of thing do you like? from what you've said

bichon, chinese crested, in fact most of the toy group might suit, a lot of them don't shed much. can't think of any in utility, they are often hairy , terriers have decent energy and come in quite a range of sizes. if you want it to walk miles with you maybe something of a slightly longer leg? a fox rather than a westie for example? oh, maybe a bedlington?

what about a hungarian puli? dredded coat so no shedding, herding breed so good energy level, plesently small/medium but study size.

the list goes on... does your partner have any preferences? perhaps a trip to a show to see some breeds in the flesh might be the best plan (i did this with my bf and we've picked the dig he'd like next when at crufts- was great cause as i told him the pics in books don't do them justice!) 

Spitz living inside tend to moult all the time tumbleweeds all over the place!! LOL.

If you like spitz then maybe look at the shiba inu.Intelligent,fun and very individual....believe me they will put a smile on your face.They do not moult constantly....in fact I get less hair from mine than I did from either my GSD or staffy.
They are however stubborn and not good off lead...and they really are big dogs in small packages.Wonderful dogs with personality plus...but pls do you research first as they are not a breed for everyone. Be warned though that if you have one you must get used to people asking what they are or why have you got a fox on a lead!Even my vet has never seen one before.

If it is the Spitz type that you like ans your looking for under the 18 inch mark (that rules my lot our) then what about, Norwegian Buhund (usually wheaten in colour, close thick coat).

The Keeshond (Love these) but longer coat than my own breed and about 16 inches (wolf grey with black mask and ears, I'd go for these if I wanted smaller and fluffier), then there are the German Spitz Mittel which come in a Rainbow array of colours. 

Another lovely breed in my opinion are the Finnish Laphund, bitches are not too big, but males may be a little bigger than what your looking for.

Then there are the white Japanese Spitz (small) and Japanese Shiba Inu (very primitive and though small not the easiest breed for a first time dog).  Similar size, birght red, and a tendecy to be voacal are the Finnish Spitz.

Poodle maybe?  From what I hear, they are quite intelligent, easy to train, active dogs.  Even though they have all that hair, I hear they are non shedding.  Maybe I am totally wrong on that point, about the non shedding, so maybe some poodle people can help you out there. 

Also, what about the German Pinscher?  They are medium sized, energetic, low shedding (and when they do shed, you dont see it!).  They are intelligent as well, along with most of your pinscher breeds. 

I would recommend some sort of way, to be able to take your dog out though, when you are ill or something.  Like, maybe an x-pen turned into a fence?  Or a tie-out attached to the side of the house? 

A large yard, or fenced yard, for that matter, isnt to significant, as there are ways around it.  My friend has a lab, and just uses a tie out, for when the dog needs to do his business.  But the dog is well exercised, during the day, with long walks. 

If it is the Spitz type that you like ans your looking for under the 18 inch mark (that rules my lot our) then what about, Norwegian Buhund (usually wheaten in colour, close thick coat).

Love these...seem to be very few and far between though.Think finding a pup would be a challenge

Worth the wait though.  did you see Margaret D's youngster at the Elkhound club show, spent most of the day lying on his back with legs in the air. :D

For the next4 years whilst we live in the house we don't have access to a fenced garden or a yard, council restrictions prohibit us from drastically changing the outside of the house! Its odd, we have french doors onto the grass outside they jsut won't let us fence it

> If it is the Spitz type that you like ans your looking for under the 18 inch mark (that rules my lot our) then what about, Norwegian Buhund (usually wheaten in colour, close thick coat).
>
>

I can vouch for this breed as my mum has had them for many years though lost her last one last year sadly.

Unfortunately this OP said elsewhere that she liked the Sibe but wanted something smaller and was interested in the Klee Kai, was offered a list of perhaps easier spitz to look at. It now seems that they are not wanting something that sheds too much and has no fenced garden.

So think any sort of spitz and most medium size dogs would be out of the question because the garden is un-fenced. The only answer, if a dog is really wanted, it would seem would be a very small dog that could be let into a puppy pen to exercise when the owner was unable to take it for a walk on a lead around the garden.

Really not practical at all with the garden situation and think perhaps they should wait till them move to somewhere more practical and spend the interim researching which dog they would really like to live with. It seems anyway the smaller dog would be a stop gap till they can have a Sibe.

I did not see MD's new puppy at the show although I knew she had one, will now go a sulk ;-(

I would agree.  One of my puppy (well dogs are now 10 and 9) owners lives in a ground floor flat, and have access to communal gardens, but also they back straight onto woodland so easy for walks, though house-training took longer.

With direct access from the house onto an unfenced garden I agree no dog would really be feasible as there would always be the risk that someone would leave the patio door open and away the dog would go.  Any Spitz, Terrier or hound breed would be off, as would many other breeds unless extremely dopey and/or well trained.

I have found housetraining this puppy (a breed usually super quick to be clean in the house) has taken longer as we are in a ground floor flat at the minute with a huge communal garden so no straight access to the garden, you have to go out and round the side.

Without a fence I'd feel a prisoner in my own home.  My dog is in and out all the time and in the summer it's great to be able to leave the patio doors open so that she can lie on the step or chase the odd bird that dares trespass. 

When my dog was ill last year she was rushing in and out of the garden day and night with the squits. 

Yep I can't imagine having a dog without a garden and direct access to it for them, but many people do abroad where the majority of people live in apartments.

The couple who have the two dogs of mine I was going to refuse, but they had every contingency catered for and knew there would be more work.  They even sent me the terms of use of the gardens.  It worked so well, that I was happy to let them have a second pup, but the location and circumstances and work patterns made a big difference..

Dont know a lot about some of the breeds but someone mentioned poodles which is my area!!
A miniature or standard would be OK. Even the standards being a larger size dont take up that much room. They would enjoy having a lot of company and would enjoy the mental stimulation and exercise that lots of nice long walks brings.
Also, they never moult or shed hair. You may notice a few little tufts when they change fom puppy to adult coat but its minimal. (A cat sheds more hair in a day than a poodle does when thier coat changes!!)

Still think it is the lack of fence that is the problem unless this couple are able to arrange at least one of them at home 24/7 to be able to exercise the dog. A standard poodle requires a good deal of both exercise and attention. May be a rescue would be the answer, an older dog who was house trained and required only moderate exercise.

Surely a garden without a fence just means dog would have to be taken out on a lead for a wee??

Why would someone need to be at home 24/7 to exercise the dog - not being sarcastic just asking

I know people that have managed with no garden at all and have well behaved, well trained dogs.  Sometimes those dogs that have access to a garden get the least exercise of all. 

The only thing I can see being more difficult would be the house training but again a great many people have managed this too.

my friend lived in a 3rd floor flat with her toy poodle, house training took a bit longer (but then I think smaller dogs are usually more difficult anyway) but she got up every morning and went out first thing with a coat over her pj's so the dog could toilet.  I dont think she lost out although she did love coming over to mine and charging in and out of the house and round the garden

> Why would someone need to be at home 24/7 to exercise the dog - not being sarcastic just asking

I'd like to know that too?

I don't believe a fenced garden is essential for dog owners, you only need a lead.

I have a 6 ft fenced garden but my dogs only use it for emergency wees or poos, they get their exercise on walks and I'd not leave them unattended outside for a second in case they were stolen, even in the summer they stay indoors unless I have the time to stand outside on guard duty .

Anyway house training works better if owners play an active part by going outside with the pup to teach it a command and praise it, it can be hit and miss if the door is left open all day and the pup is expected to teach itself.

Having said that I am glad that I have secure fencing, when I come home it doesn't matter if the dogs nip out the door to greet me as I know they can't get onto a road.

I would strongly suggest that you fence the garden and would recommend an ex racing greyhound as a pet - there are many thousands of them most deservedly looking for a nice home.  They don't need excessive amounts of exercise, they fold up small when they are snoozing and I have not met an unfriendly one yet.  I had one for 10 years and she was marvellous.

www.retiredgreyhounds.co.uk

> Why would someone need to be at home 24/7 to exercise the dog

With a puppy or a young dog there would need to be someone around to walk the dog as it can't just be let out the door, and we all know how often a youngester needs to be let out, that was what I meant, that or be prepared for a lot of cleaning up.

> Having said that I am glad that I have secure fencing, when I come home it doesn't matter if the dogs nip out the door to greet me as I know they can't get onto a road.

You've just answered the question. 

Maybe the cairn terriers very hardy and non shedding. Since I've seen pictures of the dandy dinmont terrier feel in love with them myself, only not sure how easy pups could be be available as a rare breed also like klee kai you mentioned previously. Maybe as your planning ahead until new year or Easter you could have a look around  your local dog rescue centres for ideas to see what you like the look of ? also to meet a few different types of dogs as a lot of toy breeds may find it hard to have so much walking in its life- they all have different levels of exercise and personalities and its great to get ideas even if you do end up going to a breeder for a puppy in the end ?

Good luck in your search. 

To be honest, I don't think that the fenced garden is a major issue.

When I was younger we had a rather lovable energetic German Shepherd when wed live in Kendal. Now we had no garden, but those who know Kendal will know it has plenty of parks, open grass areas.

We lived close to Kendal castle, Bess had her own playground.

I understand your reasoning for saying no to a dog because of the fence, however in my experiences with dogs they've only ever used it to go Loo.

I'm quite tempted to fence it anyway, without telling the council......

Also there will most likely be someone home 24/7, I have gotten the university timetable through, and I am at Uni when Graeme is at home and at home when he is working if that makes sense. Might be one day a week when there is noone in the house for 3 hours. My job is from home anywhoo

Your right the having no garden is not an issue.
I think due to not having a garden you make it up by the bucket load with lots of extra walks through the day. When I had my first dog in a flat I was out with her 3-4 hours a day.

if it comes to it could you not fence then take it down when you leave? its not ideal but people do manage. though the suggestion of an older dog instead of a pup is maybe worth considering, it would cut out the training issue.

theres a whippet/bedlington lurcher needing rescued right now (i like to make myself suffer by looking)... not so sheddy and quite wee..

Think things have changed in the last few years, a dog loose on the street or in a public place may soon be scooped up by a dog warden, and however careful you are someone will leave the door open.

> however careful you are someone will leave the door open.

i'm not sure how the garden makes a difference then, if your arguing that someone will leave the door open there is equal chance that someone will leave open the gate

Have you met a Eurasier? Other than the hair they might really suit you. They were bred to have no job other than be a pet so don't have some of the stimulation needs working breeds have. They're spitz dogs which you like the look of but aren't quite as prone to yapping as a Keeshond. It's a bit bigger than you wanted (bithces 19-22") but since it's not a working dog it might fit in your house perfectly. Worth a look?

> however careful you are someone will leave the door open.

That never happens at my house, but visitors sometimes leave the garden gate open (postman, delivery people, neighbours, etc).

> That never happens at my house, but visitors sometimes leave the garden gate open (postman, delivery people, neighbours, etc).

This is why I have a padlock on by back gate and the dogs are kept behind the baby gate in kitchen when the doorbell goes, which gives another door between them and the front door two.  My hall is small and I often found if more than one person was coming in the front door might still b e open when the first person opened the living room door.

If I had patio doors opening onto an unfenced garden they would really have to be permanently locked, as it would be next to impossible to ensure they were never opened when the dog was in the room or able to get into the room.  Someone would think the other had shut the dog away or a visitor just opens the door without thinking.  It doesn't even ocur to other peopel to think about yoru dogs safety.

If living in a flat someone has to consciously open the flat door and you still then have the hall and communal main door as a buffer.

> That never happens at my house, but visitors sometimes leave the garden gate open (postman, delivery people, neighbours, etc).

Lets hope it never does. It is one of the reasons there are always two gates between where my dogs are and the road, my visitor's children have not correctly closed a door on more than one occasion and builders and workmen are hopeless.

The whole garden and fence issue would be more of an issue if you bought a young pup from a breeder wouldnt it? Pups need to go out for  regular wees. You cant take them outside as they wouldnt be fully vacinated at a young age and also wouldnt be used to collar and lead as a small pup.
I'm sure theres ways around it but think it would be easier to either fence the garden OR get an older dog who can go on lead and not worry about the fence.


Is quite unusual not to have a fenced garden. Im not sure i could live without the privacy a fence brings

> Is quite unusual not to have a fenced garden. Im not sure i could live without the privacy a fence brings

That is always my thought when I read on American lists/boards about so many people not having fenced gardens in the USA.

I think it's bad enough when I have visited some places here with only four foot fencing.

I have five foot 6 or 6 feet all around and have planted trees and shrubs to give me more privacy too.

It's the lack of security too, with anyone being able to walk through, having to lock the doors into the garden and not being able just to have it open in warm weather.

To the OP, why are you not allowed to fence your garden????

We're not allowed to fence it because the houses on our drive were all built to be meant for first time buyers and the like. So there are one to three bedroom houses designed for to be easy to maintain etc. The condition in the Deed is that we can't structually modify the house and the grass has to be open.

I'm going to read through all the documentation but I wondered if I talk to the solicitors and say well it would only be up for 4 years before we move thats not a problem...or just not tell them?

With regards to our french doors, they are permanently locked! I've never said we use them!!!!

Many moons ago, we lived in a small cluster style house, which only had an open plan front garden.  We weren't allowed to put a fence up around this, but people did start putting small fences up and no one told them to take them down.  We learnt that it was the developers, not the council, that stipulated these conditions.  They never checked.  In that area now, most people have put a fence up.

Also, biased, but Miniature, Standard of Giant Schnauzers are brilliant.  They are all non-shedding and they have terrific temperaments!