Hi
Anyone out there that has any advise on the horrible condition A.F? My male is on Atopica now but wondered if surgery would be better in the long term.  Does anyone have a dog thats had surgery? Where was it done and how did it go? Its been graded as low but still horrible for him all the same.
Lx

Hi Barkingmad.  Funnily enough I replied to the other post mentioning surgery to you.  My gsd was diagnosed with furunculosis just before his 9th birthday.  My vet recommended atopica but did say that he had found dogs couldn't be weaned off without the af returning.  I felt uncomfortable with using atopica as a first treatment (new drug, no idea of long term side effects, etc) so researched surgery.  I understood that surgery was used by very few vets nowadays and that the results were often temporary. 

However, I also heard of some very good outcomes and I was told of a vet in Staffordshire who specialised in af.  I arranged an appointment with him (I'm in Bristol).  This vet gave me a lot of confidence and I decided to go for the op.  The op went fine, my boy had temporary incontinence (a couple of weeks) and then everything healed up really well. 

Unfortunately I lost my boy 2 years later to a ruptured spleen (5 days before his 11th birthday), he had not had any return af or problems in that area at all. 

I can let you have the details of the vet in Staffs if you like, or privately e mail me and I can talk directly to you about this awful disease and my experiences.

Hi
Thanks Zajak for both your replies.  My dogs pedigree has been sent to London Vet school to see if there is any genetic link with AF.  The proffessor there liases with my vet and has advised treatment so far but I do not know why they havent considered surgery.  I am going to see my vet next week so will mention it then.  Its such a vile condition and my fears are the same as yours..new drug, long term affects etc?? I had decided to have a 6 months full blood count done on him as peace of mind but what if its too late? I just needed to know a success story on surgery to give me the hope to give it a go or atleast look into it for him. Poor dog, he has had it since he was 2 and now is almost 7. GSD's ehh, what with him and my bitch with her allergy!
thanks again
Lx

I have a large sighthound with AF she  had her anal glands removed and  they discovered she had af it was quite bad but has been on atopica for 6 months with no ill effects her bottom has cleared up well, the surgeon had told me they dont like doing surgery and has given me survey reports on the incidence of it clearing up with drug intervention  it looked quite promising.some of the dogs that went for surgery/drug therapy still relapsed .BM i was wondering if the london vet school would hold other info on af Its becoming a problem in our breed and its being swept under the carpet, would be interested to know if it was in some of our lines,would you know anything about this?

My internet and veterinary research led me to believe that surgery was not often successful and that this was one of the reasons that very few vets recommend it nowadays.  However, I had a friend who's dog had surgery and his was also successful, her dog had the op at 5 years old and he died at 9 of an unrelated disease, no recurrence within that 4 years.  Personally, I think Atopica is used as the new wonderdrug, it seems to be recommended for most things.  However, it mostly seems to deal with the symptoms, not the cause and that wasn't enough for me. 

Sorry Willowsmum but my dog not having any side effects after 6 months on a drug wouldn't make me feel any easier about using the drug.  Its the long term effects I would worry about.  Has your dog been weaned off atopica yet or is the drug dealing with the symptoms and not sorting the cause?  I'd be really interested to have any feedback from anyone who has used atopica and managed to wean their dog off the drug without the problem returning.

I am aware that some dogs relapse from the op (as they do when taken off atopica), however, I felt I was gambling less with future problems with my dog by giving the op a go.  If it saved him even one year off atopica, then it was worth it.  If there was no other choice or the problem had returned, I would have tried atopica but I felt there was an better option, and for my dog that was the right decision.  I know the op in itself is a risk, as is any op.

This drug has not been used for long enough to be able to trial/test long term damage or side effects.  30 years time, when the risks are known, I will be quicker to use the drug.

15 years ago a bitch of mine was given ovarid tablets each season to stop the season,  I was told categorically by my vet that there were no long term use side effects and that bitch died at 5 years old of cancer of the liver.  Now, this could have been coincidence, I know, but future testing suggested liver cancer as a side effect and it is no longer recommended for long term use. 

This is obviously just my personal opinion made partly through my past experiences.

I hope your dog continues to do well willowsmum and that Barkingmad, you get some answers.  I agree with what you say about GSDS but I still love em! Please let us know how you get on (including any inheritibility info if poss).

My girl is just in the middle of the weaning off process and we are cutting it down monthly shes on 125mg at the moment bearing in mind shes a large breed I fully understand about the issue you have about long term drug use I do feel the same but someone i know had a dog that had surgery and what a mess and pain it went through it did have it quite badly  and it still came back I want to give the drugs a try first ,I am hoping that she will be able to come off them altogether if after that she still has a recurrance then i think i may well opt for surgery,Its all risky whichever way you do it,I did at one point think of having her PTS because of the constant straining and diarrhoea, pain, holes you could put your finger in around her bottom she was so depressed but i persevered and she is alot better now.They think it is an immune system disease and if this is the cause what else could they treat them with apart from atopica or similar ...autoimmune sytem drug? Surgery may cut away effected bits but there is still the underlying problem,I dont for one minute like giving her these drugs but we have to try something and as you say we will all have differing opinions.I will not be giving these to her indefinately no matter what the vet school suggests so we may well end up with surgery you can only do what you think is best cant you?

Hi,

We had a Leo with AF.
She had it from about 4 years till she died at 10 years old.

We tried everything else than the surgery (could not find a vet that had enough experience in doing the surgery)
Believe or not, Herbal/natural medicines to treat/support her immune system as a whole were the best before we found the immune suppressants (sp?)!

She was very ill indeed, her seasons stopped and she just looked unwell as a whole and at one point like a hippo because the vet was pumping her full of cortisone which made her very bloated.

After starting her on the immune suppressants her bum healed and as a whole she looked so much better and even started her seasons again.
When she was started on the immune medication she was on a human version of Atopica, Sandimmun Neoral for few years.
Which by the way was slightly cheaper than Atopica so might be worth seeing if you can get this instead of Atopica?
She had blood panels every 6 months and those were always fine.
When she was started on the medication she was on a 200mg/twice a day Sandimmun Neoral (the human version) and in the end her "upkeep" dose was Atopica 100mg/day.

We tried weaning her off the Atopica but the holes returned, we also had to top the dose if she was having a season.
We wanted to spay her but first she lost her seasons and was very unwell so we didn't and then she was getting on for a large dog so we never did.
In hind sight I hope we had gone through the spay when she was 7, as seasons did always flare up her bum if we didn't rise the dose up early enough.

Only side effect our girl had was stiffness in her joints(our vet said this was the Atopica's side effect) but othervise she seemed fine on it for the 4 years she had the medicine for.
I believe Sandimmun, human version of Atopica has been used for humans for years so the general side effects are pretty well known (not to say they are exactly same in dogs)

Based on our own experience

I would really recommend taking your dog to a homeopatic as we really found this helped our girl.
Even if it is as a support for the treatment from the vet/Atopica.
We weren't big believers but as I said we were desperate and tried more or less everything and I have to say our view on homeopathical remedies have changed seeing how it helped our girl.
She was better off with the homeopathic remedies in 3-4 weeks than she was on a treatment our vet was giving her for 8 months!

I would also spay any bitch with AF as in our case hormonal changes obviously made her body "work" harder and caused the illness to blossom.(not only season time but also when she was having a phantom pregnancy, so any hormonal changes)

Isn't it interesting how different treatments work for each individual dog?  I am a big believer in homeopathy, approaching everything this way in the first instance, feeding raw, etc but must say that for af I didn't find it helped my boy.

Willowsmum, I hope your dog can come off the atopica without a recurrence, and that an op will not be required.  I am sure that, like most things, the vet who performs the surgery can make a difference.  The vet I used said that he had never had a recurrence in all the time that he had been doing these ops.

How many of your dogs were prescribed Antirobe?  I have heard of some very good results regarding antirobe and af if caught early.

Havent heard of antirobe there was an article ,i think it was Dog World paper, by Trevor Turner suggesting ketaconazole but my vet and the consultant at the  hospital said it is quite toxic to the liver so i said no thanks,Trevor also recommended twice weekly POWER HOSE!!!! on the bottom and anus and then a wash over with some antisceptic like hibiscrub,good grief made my eyes water havent tried it and dont think i want to!!Wouldnt be my girls fav any more after that.
think ill ask vet about some homeopathic  remedies not sure if she will know as we are in a small rural practice and i think they deal mostly with farm animals,shes very good though Thanks for the thoughts Zajak
Funny you should mention seasons Noora my girl started with her anal glands being removed around her season time, im hoping to get her spayed for this very reason,have to wait till shes off her steroids first

We used to have to shower our girls bottom ever single day as she would get poo on the holes!
She got so used to being washed that she would walk straight to the toilet and position herself ready for wash when she came in from a walk.
We would then blow dry (cool air) her bum and add what ever we were using at the time.

We were lucky to find a vet that also did homeopathic remedies.
We went looking for one after our own vets treatments did no good.
Her homeopathic treatment included little "grains" they use in homeopathy put in the lip pouch, these vere supposed to support the immune system and they did work for a while and made her better.
Our girls case was very bad, we were actually facing having to put her down as her bottom was getting really bad.
Atopica was the last thing we had left to try.
For some reason vets never suggested them, we went and researched AF ourself and told our vet this is what we want to try.
We also tried different diets but found these to be no help.

Yes our last GSD had AF and it was removed surgically.  Came back though and ultimately it was Cyclosporin that cleared it up completely over an 18month or so period. At the time it wasnt approved for animal use, so it was the human Cyclosporin (I think that Atopica is the new veterinary name for Cyclosporin).

HTH

hiya my gsd bitch was diagnosed with af 2 years ago and with the use of atopica combined with nizarol it is no worse today than back then! i have had her spade as seasons tended to trigger a flare up. i have also found that giving a fibre supplement in her dinner helps as easier motions prevent extra tearing hope this helps alittle.
i know i can't cure her but as she is 9 now i am grateful for extra time.it is expensive but she's worth it i get my prescription at the vets then sourse atopica online as it works out alot cheaper.