Please help.

Im looking to buy a GS sometime in the near future. Despite growing up with this breed, and my family have had many over the years, researching which breeder is incredibly frustrating. Of course I want to avoid the 'money making eight litters a year I love my german sheperd types' and the 'perfect show dog with its back so sloping it even looks painful'.

Another member of my family bought two GS's a while back, again from a reputable breeder, only for the female to be put down at 6 months for the worst hip problems the vet had seen! The brother did actually live a long life although his hips were far from perfect and if he ever had of worked he certainly would not have lived for too long.

My mother recently bought one from the olderhill line. A lovely dog but totally hyperactive with none of the stay by your side whilst out walking type qualities of a 'proper' GS. This one was quarter mile infront with not much concern for its owner!

Can anyone recommmend a breeder? I dont want a show dog and I dont want a working dog. Just a good stamp GS like in the old days.

Jeremy

Have you contacted the breed club?  They may be able to point you in the direction of a reputable breeder of the type you prefer.

Thank you Isabel. A sensible suggestion. However, the breed club may point me to a reputable breeder although Im really looking for the 'punters' recommendation.

The breed club for the bulldog would also suggest somewhere if I wanted a bulldog....my point is that.....these breed clubs / show breeders dont really give a damn about the dogs health....they are just interested in winning shows. Afterall, the modern day bull dogs among other breeds suffer from terrible health problem....i dont see these recommended breeders helping the situation though....do you! 

It is not true at all that breed clubs and show breeders do not care about health - MOST show breeders work very very hard and spend lots on health tests etc to ensure that they are breeding from the best and healthiest stock.

my point is that.....these breed clubs / show breeders dont really give a damn about the dogs health....they are just interested in winning shows.

oh...really??!! Darn it I must give up breeding then

Jeremy

The best thing to do is get in touch with your local Police HQ and see which breeders they get their dogs from.  Not all working types are "hyper" and it could easily be put down to whatever food he is fed, not simply breeding.

Please don't lump all show breeders into the same bracket - the majority of them really do put the welfare of their dogs before their hobby!

BusyDoggs........apologies......Not all breeders of certain breeds.

Call me cynical but I'm not entirely sure this is a genuine post. Please accept my apologies if I'm wrong Jeremy - we've had a few wind-ups on the board after JH's little expose. Perhaps if you mentioned what part of the UK you were in it would help - unless you are willing to travel anywhere for the right dog.

Same initials too - JH

Unfortunately the type of GSD you want(ie the"English type")are bred on the whole by breeders who do no health tests at all sadly.their main breed club is the German Shepherd Dog(Alsatian) Club of the United Kingdom the lack of a code of ethics & health information on their website says it all really

> The best thing to do is get in touch with your local Police HQ and see which breeders they get their dogs from.  Not all working types are "hyper" and it could easily be put down to whatever food he is fed, not simply breeding.

Most dogs that are good Police Dogs would not be suitable for a pet/non working home, especially now as more forces are breeding their own from imported working lines

People........Im really not looking for hundreds of replies from upset breeders.

I really do believe that having five or so bitches all living in purpose built kennels at the bottom of the garden and being bred year on year is wrong. You cant guarantee all dogs born life long homes and if you werent getting paid so much per dog you would not do it. Its my opinion!!!!

Now.....any more suggestions from german shepherd owners only please.

Thank you.

What an arrogant post, I trully hope it is a wind up. I have three wonderfull happy healthy family pets at home. Yes I am a breeder and I show and all my dogs are firstly and foremost family pets. Oh and one is a Champion!!! Most "REPUTABLE" breeders and showers are not stupid enough to think ALL thier pups go to show homes. I for one (and there are many of us here) expect 90% of my pups to go to pet homes and breed accordingly!!  Those of us who really care  breed for temp, health and stability first and show qualities  second. I am not so silly to think these things do not matter and if you tar eveyone with the same brush you may find you get short shrift on this board.
Do your homework....there are GOOD QUALITY breeders around, it's up to you to find them.
Please do not damm us all.
Aileen
Edited to say I once bred GSD'S and yes paid the same attention to them as I do my choosen breed now!

I dont quite understand Jeramy from what you have written what you exactly class as a "perfect dog" your posts have so many sweeping statements in them which i find very offensive and i am sure others do, not everyone who breeds gsds for showing purposes treat them badly and have health problems... we used to show gsds years ago, and they all lived to a very healthy age... we are currently planning on breeding our new bitch when she is old enough, however i just do not understand what you are after what so ever .... maybe if you made it a little clear, for example where do you live... etc? No point saying somewhere thats down South if you live top of North, unless of course you want to travel that far...

Just to edit about breeding our bitch, it is not for the purposes you would be after...

If you are a genuine poster then maybe you would be better using the Searching section of the forum to find a breeder.

Please remember that whilst we are all entitled to our opinions there is a appropriate way to voice these, I think your last post was very agressive in its tone. 

CD is a great, friendly forum where you can get help & advice on any topic, use it as your friend not your enemy.

> I really do believe that having five or so bitches all living in purpose built kennels at the bottom of the garden and being bred year on year is wrong.

Same opinion as most people on here who look to IMPROVE their breed, rather than use them for cash purposes. 

> However, the breed club may point me to a reputable breeder

If they are a reputable breeder they will have done the recommended health screening and I am sure not all their members breed to one extreme or the other.  I don't see how you can rule them out without even trying them to see what they say.

My point is that there are a number of reputable breeders of all breeds. BUT.....not all breeds are fair (to the dog). My example was that I didnt particuarly want a new type GS with a sloping back because apparently although they are welcome in the show class....they tend to suffer more from weak hips. I.e they would probably not be suitable for a working dog and that is exactly what an GS was bred for originally.

My whole post (and I apologise to those offended) was to ask if anyone could recommend a breeder. I was addressing the German Shepherd owners....not breeders for their experience.

When somebody mentioned ask the whoever for a list or reputable breeders and I replied about reputable breeders.....well the rest is history!!!

> My example was that I didnt particuarly want a new type GS with a sloping back because apparently although they are welcome in the show class....they tend to suffer more from weak hips.

Do they really ? have you got veterinary proof of this ? The "International"type of GSD do not have more HD(& not "weak"hips)than the "English"type you like & in fact it is just the opposite as all the"International"type come from hipscored health tested parents & before you ask yes I am a GSD person, having owned the breed since 1958 & although GSDless @ the moment I'm still involved with the breed & I am planning my next puppy for 2011-like all my others he will be from pure German bloodlines(of course his parents have to be able to work before they are passed for breeding-unlike the"English"type)

I don't entirely disagree with your points about the parlous state the German Shepherd seems to have gotten into but I still believe you should be sourcing your breeder through the breed club after all you profess to be looking for an ethical breeder also and an ethical breeder who has the interest of the breed at heart is going to be in the breed club helping steer the breed back on track.  Any breeder not interested in doing that seems to me to be more likely to be in it just for the money.

If you had bothered answering the rest of my post rather than just being incredibly rude I might have been able to recommend a breeder that you would be happy with. They're in the north east and breed superb GSDs. Very few members of this board would be happy with loads of dogs living in kennels in the back of the property producing litter after litter. I'm not sure what sort of reactions you expected with such inflammatory and aggressive posts. They've only served to strengthen my original suspicions.

A good working dog should not be hyper, it should be sensible and sane and have a stable temperament.  Some of the high drive schutzhund lines can be very reactive but equally I know of some who have fantastic temperaments and live in a family home as well as being great working dogs, it really depends on the lines you go for.  I also know of some very weak nerved show lines. You can find good and bad in both show and working lines, personally I have a mix of both.  I also disagree that breed club members don't health screen, again you can find working and show breeders who health test and those who don't.  I do agree, however that some of the exaggerated shapes are unhealthy although it does not mean they will have bad hips.  I prefer a level back and unexaggerated shapes, not keen on the old english lines though personally, I love the ddr lines (east german) or west german working.  They are generally dogs who have a brain but who are able to switch on and off, lovely!

JH

considering the 'show type' GSD encompasses the interpretation of type from the dyed in the wool fanatics of both ends of the spectrum and everything in between you would do better to contact the breed club nearest you as already suggested.

The 'show type' after all is merely the dogs reflecting the preferred stamp of the judge assessing the entry on THAT day - i.e. there is NO 'show type' per se

Moonmaiden

Im well aware of International, english and working types. My family have had over ten GS during my life. Wher did I mention Im after an english type?

Im after a healthy dog from a reputable breeder.

Zajak......sounds good. Anyone to recommend. Any location, pref south.

> Im well aware of International, english and working types. My family have had over ten GS during my life. Wher did I mention Im after an english type?

What you describe as wanting & what you dislike make it absolutely obvious

Wow 10 GSDs during your life ! We had 11 GSDs living indoors(non of ours are ever kennelled) at the same time & only one of our dogs has ever died young(@ 8 yrs with liver cancer) & another was PTS(my father's first one who was an out & out english type complete with bad temperament & was put down due biting my brother)

> I really do believe that having five or so bitches all living in purpose built kennels at the bottom of the garden and being bred year on year is wrong. You cant guarantee all dogs born life long homes and if you werent getting paid so much per dog you would not do it. Its my opinion!!!!
>

If you truly believe that all breeders are in it for the money, why support them by buying a puppy - why not get a GS from breed rescue? That way you can see exactly what it looks like as an adult (ie angulation) and assess it's movement for soundness in the hips.

I am truly amazed at how polite the breeders here have continued to be to you after this awfull accusation, but unfortuantely I imagine it's because they are used to this narrow-minded, hypocritical attitued, (or they are used to being wound-up and don't take the bait?)

I'm not a GS owner, but as this is an open forum, I'd thought I'd share my opinion!!! and no, I don't breed or show, I'm a pet owner with the itenligence to know that it's bad breeders that give all the good breeders a bad name, it's not that all breeders are bad (if I thought all breeders are bad I would get a dog from a rescue centre not buy one from a breeder). And while I'm rabbiting on, how many reputable breeders would actually sell 2 pups to the same home at the same time?

Jeremy, you would do well to listen to Moonmaiden, I have 2 GSDs and am on the committee of a GSD club - I would trust her advice, having 'heard' what she has had to say about the breed for the several years I have been a member of this forum.

Edited to add: By the way, those 'sloping backs' often look straight when the dog is not in the show stance. 

Gosh, I'm a nasty show breeder, why am I health testing all my dogs before breeding then?

THAT TV programme really needs to rectify the lies it has made up and show that many show people do health test and that actually that is their main priority.

> the olderhill line

It would appear that these people now breed the cross breed they call the 'Inuit Dog'. Perhaps one of those would suit.
They have a website.

I wont even comment on your other scathing rebuke of breeders but I do hope you reconsider spraying your opinions around so freely when I know that there are many first class GSD breeders around.
A close friend would be a little hurt that her CDex UDex WDex PDex shepherds were being dismissed as "with its back so sloping it even looks painful"'. They are 'form and function' in the flesh.

The Olderhill german shepherds don't suffer from hip problems because they absorb their food well

I read this on their site - can anyone explain??  Sorry if it's gone off track but seems a bit far fetched to me.

I think it would only be true if conformation was purely diet dependant - which it isn't.  So it is purely a marketing ploy in this instance.

Well Olderhill GSDs that have been x rayed & the plates submitted to the BVA have scores above 0 therefore they cannot be stated to be HD free ergo they cannot be said to not"suffer"from hip problems-it's not quite a lie because they do not say that their dogs are HD free(as is said on one site of a breeder who doesn't x ray at all)

Not all dysplasic dogs have problems with their HD-my BC bitch has just been scored & has 29:27=56 hips, but she is as sound & active as any other BC. My other BC that had a high hip score also never had a problem because like Jessie he was very well muscled & never overwieght

>therefore they cannot be stated to be HD free ergo they cannot be said to not"suffer"from hip problems-it's not quite a lie because they do not say that their dogs are HD free

Good point - there's a subtle semantic difference between 'suffering from' a condition and 'suffering with' a condition.

I,m going to chuck my twopennorth worth in for what its worth.
In my opinion and this is my opinion remember, the reason why german bred GSD "appear" to suffer from high hip dysplacia scores is quite simply due to the fact that more owners and breeders of the international type Shepherd DO bother to have their dogs health tested in the first place
whearas MOST  but not all of the Alsationists NEVER have any health checks done in the first place and so they feel justified in saying there lines are clear of hip dysplacia ,haemaphelia, or any other breed specific issues when in actual fact they have no proof whatsoever of this.
As I said its my opiion and mine only but thats what I think.

Hi Jeramy
I think the suggestion to find yourself a GSD in rescue would be best suted to your expectations. You seem to think that the majority of breeding is done for the Money...then perhaps you could refuse to add to that and find a nice dog in need of a great home from the rescue. No lining anyones pockets other than rescue who really need the money.
However if that is not your choice then I am sure if you contact a number of breed clubs and spend some time visiting and looking at the stock they produce you should be able to source a breeder with the qualities you are looking for. They are about and there are many of them if you look hard enough.
The breed clubs are the best place to start...then it's up to you to find the one that suits you best.
Aileen

I have to say I got my current GSD from a wonderful breeder. Good solid lines and breed for health and temperament.  Mum and Dad excellent hips as has her sister. But alas not so great for our girl.  So please don't be so scathing about problems. Most breeders are trying their very best to erradicate this problem but with the best will in the world sometimes it just isn't to be.

i am not a breeder but perhaps if you family are so experienced and have owned this breed for many years maybee they would know the type of bloodline you are looking for and where to go.

> i am not a breeder but perhaps if you family are so experienced and have owned this breed for many years maybee they would know the type of bloodline you are looking for and where to go.

Good point!! That would be the first place i would look if this was the case....

> .my point is that.....these breed clubs / show breeders dont really give a damn about the dogs health....they are just interested in winning shows. Afterall, the modern day bull dogs among other breeds suffer from terrible health problem....i dont see these recommended breeders helping the situation though....do you! 

Yes I do if you look at many breed clubs you will see health schemes  and advice, codes of ethics that breeders are expected to abide by etc.

Have a look at the topic codes of ethics on the breeding board.

Sadly with a  breed as common/popular and exploited as the GSD, as well as differences in the type preferred it is sadly true that Good breeders those who look after the health and welfare of their breed tend to be in the minority, but these do mostly belong to breed clubs.

Of course breeders can only work with the genetic material inherited from breeders from the past and what nature has thrown at them, but technology and breedign knowledge has advanced, adn those true breeders use these tools to try and improve things and root out areas of concern.  It is a loosing battle when the majority of 'Puppy producers' sabotage their efforts for the breed as a whole, but great strides are being made by those who do.

Im well aware of International, english and working types. My family have had over ten GS during my life. Wher did I mention Im after an english type?

Im after a healthy dog from a reputable breeder

One would expect someone who has been in a breed for that long ,would already know where to look for a healthy GSD!!

hi sam it seems your comment worked.you did not reply to anyones comments but you wound everyone up.didnt you