hi, I've never had a dog before and I'm wondering which breed would be best? I have a 7 year old son, a small house, small yard and work part time...

I'd like a small, child friendly, easily trainable dog preferably. I really like the smaller jack russels but saying that our next door neighbours have a gorgeous american bulldog bitch! She has a lovely personality and a very waggy tail, she's too big I know but my son loves taking her for a walk.

Would appreciate some advice.

For a child that young, with playmates that won't be as well trained as him , I would not personally consider any type of terrier.  One of the gundogs breeds or possibly a Cavalier King Charles if he is a gentle child would be more suitable I would say.

I have assisted friends and colleagues in trying to find the right dog for them, most first time dog owners with young children and like Isabel has stated as a general rule Gundogs are very easy to train and are great around children, making sure you get one from a decent breeder.

They all ended up down the Gundog route, generally gentle by nature and come in different sizes as well, from the Cocker Spaniel up to the Goldie and Spinone.
They comes in all shapes and sizes and as a rule love playing ball, another great thing for children to play..

Wanted to add Terriers can be very tenatious and difficult to train, especially JRT, we have 2 and never ever again..Not what i would recommend for the first time owner. Some are good with children but again i wouldn't do it as having my first dog.

We have a Cavalier King Charles and have to say that he is the most placid and loveable dog and is great with children.  We got him when my son was 7 and he fitted in perfectly.

again one of the gundogs might suit, a sample being the golden retriever, labrador retriver, cocker spaniel, clumber spaniel, the setters, vislas and many others. you can see a full list if you go on the breeders section above.

if any strike your fancy there are owners of most on here

i would say though that the gundogs are some of the most abused by puppy farmers and backyard breeders because they are popular. as such you need to be careful about finding a good breeder who health tests- again something you'd find help with here or through a breed club.

outside of gundogs though there are loads of terrific breeds that might suit, the toy and utility groups (not all of but some) might be worth a look to

hth

yes, most first time novice owners fall into the jack russell is an easy dog trap

its usually just due to the size

actually, size is irrelevant in this case...........breed temperament is what counts........when it comes to jacks, just think border collie with smaller legs, then you'll get the idea

am bull isnt for novices either

labradors might do you well

king charles

greyhound/whippet might suffice

> whippet

mad puppies though. a retired greyhound might be great actually. no horrible puppy age to cope with (ok, not all horrible but certainly hard work) and generally make brilliant pets

Depending on where you live a trip to Discover Dogs can be very educational, you will be able to "get up close & personal"with all the breeds recognized by the KC & speak to people who have an in-depth know of the breed, warts & all.

> she's too big I know but my son loves taking her for a walk

I hope this is with adult supervision as this type of dog can be too strong for a young child

Hi, i have 4 children aged from 12 down to 2 and last october we got our little Pug. She has been very easy to train and is small but robust. I expected her to be a little more of a challenge in training and general health care, the wrinkles really, but still at just 8 months old she is very, very easy. Good luck on your hunting!

You might consider a well-bred Shetland Sheepdog. They can make wonderful pets for children, just make sure the lines you consider breed for good temperament and robustness. They do need grooming though.

Along with Moonmaiden I'd recommend a trip to Discover Dogs. You can get your hands on all the breeds that take your fancy, ask about traits, health, care and exercise levels, and suitability with children, and you'll find out where and how to get pups, at what price, and how long you'd have to wait.

> just think border collie with smaller legs, then you'll get the idea
>

   I don't understand this remark at all!

While I agree that a Border Collie is for an experienced dog person, I certainly wouldn't class mine anything like a JR and find that remark difficult to understand.

He is the softest mouthed, most obedient and loyal dog, and the easiest to train, totally unlike a Jack.  (Although I have trained a Jack.)

> I'd like a small, child friendly, easily trainable dog preferably.

Have a think about size as one of your criteria - is it because you think them easier to train or is it due to the space you have available?  Some of the bigger dogs fold up quite nicely, in that you become less aware of their size as they curl up to sleep and do not seem to occupy too much space - we once had a greyhound like this.  Likewise we've had a smallish sized mongrel that seems bigger as he sleeps like a starfish and has a big coat!

Many of the gundog breeds will fit your criteria of child friendly and easily trainable so it's worth distinguishing between height and substance/weight as your criteria.  Some of the Hunt Point Retrieve breeds can be a bit taller than your average labrador but, because they are of 'finer' build will not seem as big and are easier to walk around when they sleep in doorways.  Golden Retrievers can seem extra big by virtue of the coat but are generally very forgiving of young children and the coat gives them some protection from being clutched.

Some smaller children will cope better with bigger dogs.  They are much less likely to want to pick them up and naturally are more careful and respectful with them.  There are other practical issues too as it's much easier for you to keep an eye on a bigger dog.  Try as he might there is no way our dog can sneak anywhere and if he goes on a laundry stealing mission he'll definately be caught before he swallows a sock. 

good comments dog a babe. I find it trip over our chi much more often than our gsd ! also I dont lose him and she slips out of or gets shut in very easily ! When my kids where young after much research  we had a flat coat retriever, brilliant family breed although some say can be a handful when young. She was my second dog the first being a gsd and found that as a family pet she was perfect and very very easy to train.I would certainly go with the gundog breeds idea.

I have Irish Setters and my other half has an 8 year old, the dogs are very gentle around her although can be pushy when they want affection and have been known to sit on her lap !!

The only problem with larger dogs is that they are too strong for her to hold on a lead I used to look after my friends english x american cockers  and found they were just the right size for her, happy to play ball all day and not too strong for her to hold on the lead.

poodles / setters / golden retrievers - all good.

> I'd like a small, child friendly, easily trainable dog preferably.

Wouldnt we all - to get that kind of dog you have to be prepared to put in lots of hard work and training both with the dog and your child. It is hard work and needs a lifetime of commitment but the rewards are great and by putting in the effort early on you will reap the benefits later when you have a child friendly well trained dog

JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 08.05.09 07:15 GMT

    > just think border collie with smaller legs, then you'll get the idea
    >

confused   I don't understand this remark at all!

While I agree that a Border Collie is for an experienced dog person, I certainly wouldn't class mine anything like a JR and find that remark difficult to understand.

He is the softest mouthed, most obedient and loyal dog, and the easiest to train, totally unlike a Jack.  (Although I have trained a Jack.)
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!

I've trained both as well.

But i can answer your question easily, i dont mean anything unusual.
Actually, you have part answered your own question already.
Im just puting things in terms for the average non dog/pet dog person, not for people like you and I..
Im not saying BC's and Jack's have the same characteristics....
Just as you said BC's arent for first time inexperienced people.......I'm saying the same applies to Jacks, but the average pet dog owner sees 'small' and equates this as 'easy'
By comparing them to BC's (ie, its to do with behaviour, not size), I'm just adding some perspective for these pepple.
In other words, both highly intelligent and energetic breeds, which can get easily bored and develop problems, if only offered a basic pet dog lifestyle which doesn't equate with their mental and physical needs and demands.

Interestingly, i also often get the comment from inexperienced people that they would like to adopt a BC, as they know they round up sheep and are commonly known as easy and quick to train (as you said yourself) and once trained, they can keep themselves entertained.
They obviously havent heard the "how many Border Collies does it take to change a lightbulb joke"

Although this wasn't my point, but as a digression, im not too sure i would agree that as breed traits go, BC's are known as a 'soft mouthed breed' as such, even compared to Jack's?
I think soft mouth, when it comes to either, is trained into them, as opposed to an instinct such as what the flushing dogs have.
Ive received good bites form both LOL.
One good hard one from Jack, several crocodile shredding ones from BC.
I can dodge the former a lot quicker than the latter, although both are pretty fast with it!

Unless, of course, you are saying the same, and i have misunderstood?

> Wouldnt we all - to get that kind of dog you have to be prepared to put in lots of hard work and training both with the dog and your child. It is hard work and needs a lifetime of commitment but the rewards are great and by putting in the effort early on you will reap the benefits later when you have a child friendly well trained dog

very good points

>> I'd like a small, child friendly, easily trainable dog preferably.

it occurrs to me that there is an obvious choice we have forgotten, how about a staffie? small/medium, the op has already mentioned a liking for a bull breed, traditionally great with kids and not terribly hard to train with persistance and care.

> Although this wasn't my point, but as a digression, im not too sure i would agree that as breed traits go, BC's are known as a 'soft mouthed breed' as such, even compared to Jack's?
>

I realise that not all BC's are soft mouthed.  If I allowed a 3 year old to give my boy a dog biscuit, he would take it very gently.  Perhaps that isn't the norm in this breed.

My reasons for not comparing them to a JR is more along the lines of the actual training, and perhaps I felt that you were being a bit harsh on the comparison of my BC!!! 
(Not literally mine!)

I accept that a BC is high energy, without question, and don't consider it suitable for many people.  I think the main thing here, is what I consider to be a huge difference in the breeds when it comes to training.  My boy loves to learn, and he doesn't take his eyes off me, wanting so much to please me.  He is eager for any and every new thing I throw at him.  I guess that is what I adore about the breed. 

I have never had a JR be that willing!!  So, the point I was trying to make is that I didn't agree the comparison between the two (training wise.)

Sorry about the digression - my fault entirely. 

> it occurrs to me that there is an obvious choice we have forgotten, how about a staffie? small/medium, the op has already mentioned a liking for a bull breed, traditionally great with kids and not terribly hard to train with persistance and care.

But would you say for a new dog owner Astarte?  I'd say they're not for the inexperienced?

Hi ya Jean, totally get your point that BC's are way more biddable than wilful Jack's!.
Often, thats why novice owners mistakenly think BC's are right for them.

I wasnt referring to training suitability, but temperament and management suitability.
The comparison was just to highlight for novice people, such as the OP, that Jacks are very intelligent very energetic dogs that require quite a lot of mental and physical stimulation.
Something that more people seem to understand more often about BC's than Jacks (due to the little dog equals easy myth), so i find it helps them understand.

Sometimes i even say that Jacks have the energy of BC's and the attitude of rotties!

a fair point. but were it the first dog from a really good breeder who will offer great support it might work well. it would be harder though than many of the gun breeds

How much grooming are you prepared to do? The sort of dogs that might suit would be a Cavalier, or a miniature Schnauzer, a Tibetan spaniel, a miniature (or toy) poodle, a bichon frise, a border terrier or a cocker spaniel.

Hi Astarte, I guess your reply is to me?  Yes, a good breeder would be a definite!  Staffords for the most part have an affinity with children and humans as you know, I think I was just concerned that with a young child the breed could be a bit boisterous (and another bouncy!) lol

I'm not sure what is meant by 'the attitude of Rottie's' I have owned Rottie's for over 10 years and they are all gentle, loving dogs who have all been great with children, adults and all other dogs.

On the other hand i've come across many JRT's that have been quite nasty towards other dogs....not labelling all JRT's as I know a few nice one's....so in my opinion no JRT's do not have the attitude of a Rottweiler unless they are gentle, soft and great with all other dogs.

> it occurrs to me that there is an obvious choice we have forgotten, how about a staffie? small/medium, the op has already mentioned a liking for a bull breed, traditionally great with kids and not terribly hard to train with persistance and care.

Astarte, I know it is a Friday afternoon AND the end of term ....but what has happened to your good sense??????

A staffordshire bull terrier, albeit a wonderful dog - when obtained from the right breeder and in experienced hands, is not the best dog for complete novices.  

I know it is  long way off, but if you could plan to wait until Discover Dogs which will be held at Earls Court in London on 14th & 15th November, you could see most breeds there, talk and interact with owners and dogs, and find out what breed suits you and your family best.
After all, a dog will be with your family for a long time, and time taken in planning is never wasted.

I do hope you will find one best suited to your family!

I'm not sure what is meant by 'the attitude of Rottie's' I have owned Rottie's for over 10 years and they are all gentle, loving dogs who have all been great with children, adults and all other dogs.

Not the one I was with last night who has to be muzzled when out in public He is a rescue dog with history unknown and is very unpredicable as I found out to my cost when I stared at him one day, I will never do it again !

I think there are exceptions for any dogs when you discuss typical characteristics of any breed temperament.This is why the best advise for any new potential owner is to make sure that when looking they look for a dog the temperament of the line of the litter is a very important factor to consider and research where ever possible. Socialisation and training are also key factors in how a dog develops as well so what ever the breed of dog time and effort is also needed to ensure they end up well rounded and safe dogs to be around.

> Hi Astarte, I guess your reply is to me? 

i hit reply to your post didn't i? if not sorry!

I don't know, lol, but I managed to work out it was for me - ta! 

> Astarte, I know it is a Friday afternoon AND the end of term ....but what has happened to your good sense??????
>

possibly a factor.

i've found that the well bred staffs i have met have been for want of a better word fairly 'easy' dogs. if this is not widely the case sorry for the confusion, i was speaking from my experience.

Yes perhaps experience is the key as in my experience I have met a few Staffies and not all have been a 'fairly easy' dogs in any respect. If a dog ends up in the wrong hands or with an inexpereinced novice owner it can lead to a problem dog. That is one of the reasons why Staffy and Staffy crosses are now one of the highest numbers now seen in rescues.

I'm not sure what is meant by 'the attitude of Rottie's' I have owned Rottie's for over 10 years and they are all gentle, loving dogs who have all been great with children, adults and all other dogs.

On the other hand i've come across many JRT's that have been quite nasty towards other dogs....not labelling all JRT's as I know a few nice one's....so in my opinion no JRT's do not have the attitude of a Rottweiler unless they are gentle, soft and great with all other dogs.

oh gosh, as soon as i cleared up one misunderstanding re BC's, i did think i'd end up doing the same as soon as i mentioned rotties!
i should've edited when i had the inkling!

sufficient to say i dont mean what you think, i dont say to members of the public what you are worried i am saying...just like the BC thing, its a perspective exercise for novices, as in 'little dogs in a big body"........and i absolutely love rotties and have trained and fostered plenty, and have met friendly and aggressive rotties, jacks, and even BC's!

LOL

keep forgetting this is the more 'breed orientated' board....sorry folks

Hi, you've all been so helpful, thanks very much!

For most of my life I've had cats, lots and lots and lots of cats who have all passed on to the great cat litter tray in the sky.

Since my son arrived I've had a yen for a dog to add to the family; long walks in the countryside, ball and toy throwing, fun in the park, swimming in the reservoir (dog not me!)

I did think of a staffie as I have a friend who has two very soft very daft staffies who she adores.

Would they be a good dog for a newbie???? Baring in mind I know nothing about dogs.

> I did think of a staffie as I have a friend who has two very soft very daft staffies who she adores.
>
> Would they be a good dog for a newbie???? Baring in mind I know nothing about dogs.

I'd suggest not.. they can be very very strong willed.. they ARE also very very strong,and I think you mentioned a young child?  BUT, I happen to think they're fantastic (I own two), but my son is a large 6ft 17 year old, so I don't have to worry about him getting knocked off his feet by a boinging Stafford wanting to say hello! lol
Any dog needs a lot of time spent on training and socialisation, but I'd say Staffords in particular need lots of the 'right' attention, particularly if you've not had dogs before..
Hope that helps, I feel kind of mean trying to put you off that breed, but I am concerned that it would be a lot to take on.

I'd say go for a Staffie every time - BUT do go to a good, reputable breeder. The Staffie was always known as the 'nanny dog' because they have such an affinity with children. That's why it's so sad to see so many nasty ones ending up in rescue. The breed clubs should be able to point you in the direction of a breeder that has dogs of exemplary temperament - and if you have a nice one you'll never regret it! If your neighbour has nice ones why not ask where their's came from?

outside of gundogs though there are loads of terrific breeds that might suit, the toy and utility groups (not all of but some) might be worth a look to

Just wanting to mention, that some of the toy breeds are not typically good for a first time owner, or with small children. 
Min Pins being one of them.  They need an experienced hand, and can be very very stubborn to train.  I wouldnt go for any of the terrier rooted toys, like the min pin, the affenpinscher, the griffon, or the toy manchester terrier.  Just because these breeds are known to be a bit stubborn, and a handful at times. 
Also, with the toy breeds, something that is ok for a bigger dog, may be dangerous for a smaller dog.  If one of my aunts dogs (dobes - also another breed that needs a firm hand) jumped off the couch, it would be ok.  Sometimes a smaller breed dog could injure themselves which could mean vet bills.  They arent as fragile as they look, and they dont seem to think they are, but they can do damage from smaller things than a bigger dog would. 

The gundog group would be good to look at, as most are good with children, most want to please, and most are easy (or easier) to train.  Your spaniels, and retrievers seem a good choice. 

I may be asking a silly question here JG but what are Dallie's like for the first time owner?
A colleague got one as his first dog, family pet, young children in house, they've gone obedience training and they haven't got any problems with him, great dog..

>but what are Dallie's like for the first time owner?

Like all breeds, it depends on the owner! They need an active family - they don't do well if left unattended for long hours - they're very demanding of human company. They're a 'full-time' breed, if you see what I mean. They generally love children, but are very boisterous (especially the males) and small children can suffer from being knocked over or whipped across the face by the madly-wagging tail! Older children are usually fine. They're not the right breed for the houseproud, or people who need to wear smart dark clothes for work!

> Since my son arrived I've had a yen for a dog to add to the family; long walks in the countryside, ball and toy throwing, fun in the park, swimming in the reservoir (dog not me!)

For what you're saying above for what activities you wish to do with the dog as a family outing or as a general rule i really think most gundogs would match this perfectly. You can get low energy gundogs like the Clumber right up to high energy like the Vizla.
From what others have said about the Staffy it doesn't seem that this would be a dog for the first time owner, like many terriers. I have met some lovely ones and also some dog on dog aggressive ones, never ones which are aggressive towards humans though.

If you are prepared to wait for the right dog from the right breeder i would work out what you wish your dog to be like, write it all down, what type of coat, size of the dog, how biddable, energy levels in and out of the house, aloof to strangers or not, guarding or non guarding breed etc etc..
This can narrow it down quite a bit, once you have a few breeds in mind i would contact the breed clubs and ask about shows to attend and see the dogs in question, meet breeders and owners alike. The club secretary will give much valuable advice and also say what health tests both parents will of needed and the scores/results you are looking for.
Meet dogs in question in their homes, many dogs act differently inside to outside and this can have a major factor on behaviour and temperament.

thats why i said not all of the group but some

I think from what you have said one of the spaniel breeds would be ideal - as long as you are happy with the amount of grooming they require.

Our BC is beautiful so child friendly he lets my great niece (Atilla) paint his toe nails!! He is much more child friendly than my cocker spaniel who finds them a bit loud and runs for cover!!!

Or go for a working cocker the show type's coat does need a lot of work and regular groomers visits.

the problem with working cockers is they need work of some kind, they have much higher energy levels than the show type.

> thats why i said not all of the group but some

Opps, misread that part LOL probably lack of sleep with the min pin mayhem at my house LOL

lol understandible with the pups

To be honest it really is horses for courses.

My first dog I would not recomend as a first dog, but after I got the hang of dog ownership we did OK.

the breed I have now I feel is ideal for a family, others may not.

I had both breeds when I had a 14 months toddler, with the Elkhound I had a 14 months old and a 4 year old pre school child and was the sole adult carer for all.

best thing to do is to look in the toy breed section of the the kennel club website  http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/7

bichon's are good the dont moult their coat and cavaliers are great with kids, do your reasurch, most small breeds tend to bark ALOT!!.

Pugs are excellent! Ours is very easy to care for and she is great with the kids. She is very affectionate, she doesn't bark much and when she does it's not loud at all in fact she has a very cute bark, unlike our boxers! Happy hunting.

Are you any nearer to a decision ?

Hi,
just found your post and very interested with the debated on what breed would suit your family, I would go to the library get a book on dog breeds and look up all the breeds you like the look of first then find out their traits...I would stay away from the working breeds and also terriers. Staffies are great dogs but you have to be aware with them playing with other dogs as if another dog starts staffies will fight back like any terrier really.  I would think a bitch would be easier than males for first time owner. As all the peeps before mentioned a gun dog type- hound basically are very mellow in character normally. Our first family dog was a basset hound x labrador and she was brilliant but she still 'went' for the coal man and would be aggressive with a bone! So lots of reading up on how to be a good dog trainer. Cocker spaniels are adorable and also the basset for a medium sized dog. Not all gun dog breeds would be suitable though like a springer spaniel can be highly strung. Lurchers make excellent family pets. Find a local dogs trust and have a look around, they would match you with the right type of dog and they have puppies available sometimes.

Good luck in your search.x