Hi All.
I need some sound advice please!! My toy poodle is 19 years old and a has chronic heart condition, poor lung function, is losing her hearing etc. Over the last 12 months she has developed seizure like episodes that the vet states is connected with her heart condition. It started as a very infrequent occasion, but now she is having at least one every day. We have visited the vet and they say there is no more they can do for her but whilst she is still a happy wee girl there is no reason why she cant carry on. I am now in a position where the episodes are getting longer and deeper
I made the decision half way through one of these episodes today that enough was enough, and through floods of tears made an appointment at the vets. Which I cancelled five mins later as she was running around like a two year old again! Then I feel guilty that I ever thought that I could make that decision in the first place.
My question is, how do you know when enough is enough. Its heartbreaking. Her appetite is as good as ever and her toilet habits remain unchanged.
I love my beautiful girl so much but I dont want her to be in any pain or discomfort. She has been a part of my life for so long that I cant bare the thought of that trip to the vets.
Im a 38 year old man who is not known for having a soft side but believe me I have no shame in admiting that more than one tear has fallen over the last week or two.
People have told me that I will know when the time is right but im worried that I am being selfish. All you guys have a vast experience on this forum and any advice will be very much appreciated. Many thanks.

I don't think all the experience in the world helps in situations like this.  There's a saying: 'Better a day too early than a minute too late'. No doubt wiser minds will be along soon.

Still, what a life you've had together!

Best wishes to you both.

19 is a good age for any dog, so well done to you for having her healthy for that long

As to when do we know when the time is right. That has to be the most difficult anyone can make. I've had to do it a few times, and have even had to take my ex's dog to the vets as he couldn't face it. It is never easy, but I feel that if the dog is not suffering, and is enjoying life, then time is still in the dogs favour and will wait a bit longer. Once the dog is suffering and life is getting difficult for the dog, then it's time.

oh gg1, i'm sorry your going through this, its always a horrible time

at the end of the day you know your girl best. i firmly believe that there is a point when you just know its time. when the time came for my very special boy chad who i grew up with at the age of 14 (another oldy, for his breed at least)  we all just knew. for a couple of years before he'd been fitting occassionally, and his hips were going a bit but he was still happy, you could tell he was still enjoying life. he started to go downhill and eventually my mum and dad sat me down and explained they thought it was time (i was only 15) which i flatly denied till chad came up to me and stuck his head on my lap as was his way and looked at me. he looked so tired and seemed to be saying please just let me go. the next day he went peacefully and with the dignity he deserved.

what i'm trying to say is that only you will know if shes still happy here. but if in doubt follow the saying, better a day to early than a moment to late.

thinking of you.

19 wow. They say that you know, I you will know when the time is right. I think it is something in their eyes that tells you they are tired. I am not a Vet, I am just an ordinary person with a love for my dogs, but I do feel that if she still has a quality of life then the time isn't quite there yet, however, all may change on a day to day basis. Well done to you to have her reach a fine old age.

How long do these seizures last? I have a 14 year old dog who is the same, heart etc. His "funny turns" /mini collapses started off infrequently, now he has them every single minute of the day (yes really, I timed him) but each only lasts a few seconds and I have found you can get him out of them by talking to him (okay shouting as he is deaf and blind), and they hardly ever happen during walks.I.e. the more his brain is engaged, the better he is. He's only ever having major ones (lasting several hours) two or three times a year. We've just learnt to live with them and he doesn't seem bothered at all. He's not aware of it happening. I'd think again though if each one lasted longer than they do and bothered him. 19 is a fantastic age of course -my dog is a Cavalier and for a Cavalier and with a heart as bad as his, 14 is extremely old, so each day is a gift.

Thanks everyone. She is a toy poodle. Cant take her out for walks anymore as she just stops after she gets past the gate. A couple of weeks ago they were literally seconds then she was out of them. Now they are lasting up to a minute with about a minute recovering after them, then she is fine again. We have to be so careful when going in the house now as if she gets excited to see us she goes in one. I feel totally hopeless and useless. We also have three Great danes and have to be so careful with them around her at the moment, they all love eachother so much and she also gets excited to see them. It feels like im walking on a knifes edge sometimes

I know what I'd do but that's my opinion.  I've let mine go when they are still enjoying a normal life but when I've known that wasn't going to last for much longer, but that's just the way I am, I know that I wouldn't want to suffer, though sadly we can't do the same.

You will definitely know when it's right for you, but please let your brain rule you rather than your heart.  Hope I don't sound horrible.

Nobody can make the decision for you (unfortunately) and sometimes you wish someone else could tell you what to do but im sure when its time you will know the right thing to do. If the seizures last a minute, plus a minute recovery time then thats 2 minutes out of every day you 'lose' her. If she is ok (as well as a 19 year old dog can be!) the rest of the time then i would say it isnt right yet. As long as she is happy and not suffering then i feel you may be blessed with her a while longer

My heart goes out to you to have to contemplate making 'the decison' that all pet owners dread. the bond you must have after 19 years must be incredible and you should always credit yourself that you have got her to that age with lots of good care, attention and love. She is one lucky doggy.xxx

> People have told me that I will know when the time is right but im worried that I am being selfish.

It's hard to explain, but, I think you will know when it's the right time.

I had my oldie PTS last September. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do, but I knew it had to be done.
He had been a dodery 'old man' for a while, with his back legs getting weaker, completely deaf, eyesight fading, a bit on the thin side, a little scruffy looking, not able to manage his walks anymore, but despite all that he was happy, there was 'wag' in his tail and a little 'something' about him that said he had time left.
He then started to act a bit 'vacant', and one evening had a sort of 'episode' where his eyes were flicking and he didn't know where he was or what he was doing, the 'episode' happened again the following morning, apart from the 'episode' he was also pacing around and appeared to not know what he was doing, no wagging tail and that little 'something' was gone from him. I knew what I had to do then That morning I took him to the vets to be PTS. The vet assured me I was doing the right thing and as my oldie fell alseep in my arms I felt I had done the right thing.....he needed that sleep.

You will know when the 'somthing' has gone from your oldie, and you have to spare her a grim demise by letting her go peacefully, but for now it sounds like, depsite her 'oldness' she is happy.

I wish you the strength to do what you have to do when the time comes, becasue as much as we try to prepare ourselfs for the loss of an old dog, it hits you in the heart like a sledghammer, even when we know it's for the best

Thank you everyone and Perrodeagua you dont sound horrible!! I know that nobody could really give me answers but its been great to share how im feeling and get the thoughts and support from you kind folks. Its a matter of time I know that but we have been together since she was six weeks old and I cant begin to explain the mixed emotions that are galloping through my mind at the moment. This will sound horrible but I wish that if its going to happen soon she would just pass in her sleep. It would be no easier to cope with but I would not be burdened with the guilt of having to make a decision that may be the wrong choice. I feel really stupid but she is a big part of my life!

Someone in my breed had to leave the decision with myself and a friend once as she just couldn't face doing what was needed.  It was really hard especially as he was one of the very first imports of my breed, but it was actually nice to know that his owner felt that we would be able to make the right decision. 

My friend and I spent a lovely afternoon with him which was tinged with tears but we knew straight away what had to be done. 

I know it's hard but is there anyone else other than a forum like this than you can discuss things with?

She sounds wonderful.Running around like a two year old at 19-wow! We had a mongrel,buster,who was 19 when he died.He got slower and slower but we finally knew he was ready to go when he didn't want to eat anymore-not even his favourite treat.The same kind of thing happened with our mongrel terrier,Bonnie,only three weeks later.She suddenly had heart failure and stopped eating.She died the day she was to see the vet.Your little girl is running around,eating and drinking-that's great.Unfortunately she's developed a problem with seizures,but as long as you are keeping a close eye on things she seems to be managing to still enjoy herself.I think if she could no longer get about ,or was in pain,then you would have a duty to help her to her final rest.

As everyone else has said, you will know when the time comes. It's hard for us to make that decision and sometimes we ignore the signs through our selfishness, putting our own welfare before that of our pet.  But it is perhaps the greatest act of love we can show our dogs, to give them rest when they are ready for it - no matter how much it breaks our hearts.

Sounds like she still has a good quality of life - we had a 17 year old collie x who was incontinent and losing the use of his back legs, he would wake up in a wet bed unable to get up My Dad wouldn't have him pts and he died in his sleep, but I think that was selfish and if it had been my choice I would have taken him. However your girl isn't at that stage yet, so continue to enjoy the time you have with her. Before him we had a 19 year old beagle who went off his food and started to lose weight, my Dad did take him to be pts.

I really feel for you GG1 and the words from Muttsinbrum are so true. When I first got my own dogs I made a vow not to let them suffer in any way and not to keep them hanging on for my sake, but that is only something only you will know.
I hope that like mine, there will come a day when you just know 'it's time'. It may be that she doesn't want her favourite food, that she no longer runs for her toys or wants a walk but whatever it is, just know that you did your very best for her, for every single moment of her life and at the end you were with her, put aside selfish thoughts and again did your very best for her.

GGI dont you apologise for loving your dog, dont you dare. Thats why she is as old as she is, I agree with those on here you will know when the episodes are wearing her down, Then you will do what is right as all those that truley love their animals do.

I hope this may help you - It was sent to me when I face the same decision with my 15 year old collie

The Last Battle
If it should be that I grow frail and weak
And pain should keep me from my sleep,
Then will you do what must be done,
For this -- the last battle -- can't be won.
You will be sad I understand,
But don't let grief then stay your hand,
For on this day, more than the rest,
Your love and friendship must stand the test.
We have had so many happy years,
You wouldn't want me to suffer so.
When the time comes, please, let me go.
Take me to where to my needs they'll tend,
Only, stay with me till the end
And hold me firm and speak to me
Until my eyes no longer see.
I know in time you will agree
It is a kindness you do to me.
Although my tail its last has waved,
From pain and suffering I have been saved.
Don't grieve that it must be you
Who has to decide this thing to do;
We've been so close -- we two -- these years,
Don't let your heart hold any tears.

-- Unknown

I am in tears reading this.

You obviously care very deeply for your girl, and that love you have shown her has enabled her to reach this grand old age.
You are being incredibly brave to have even begun thinking of this and to have called the vets. I can understand that it is tearing you apart.

I feel that all the while she has a good quality of life then perhaps it isn't quite time yet, but I think the love you have for her will enable you to make then right decision when it is the right time.

Cant see the letters on the keyboard at the moment!!!

You have all been so kind and thank you so much for all your kind words. I have decided that we are not quite there yet and im going to take each day at a time. But I will not let her suffer, she is too special for that.

She is old and her body has shown the signs that the end is near but whilst she can still boss the Danes around, she will be here by my side, when the time comes I hope she has the courage to tell me and I have the strength to help her on her journey.

Thank you all so much x

Just thought I would update you all about the dutchess.
She has been settled but still having the seizures on a regular basis, have been back to the vets again just to make sure that I am not being selfish and to see if there are any other medications that we can at least try. The vet was very kind but very honest. He said we could try many drugs but because we are not treating a single problem, we could without realising it, increase the symptoms of the other issues that she has.
But he confirmed that she is, in his opinion, in no pain which is really important to me.
She is getting slower and is not eating or drinking that much anymore, but glows when I walk in the room. I lift her onto the sofa and she snuggles into my side to sleep.
Its near, I know that, but she is content at the moment and I am determined to cherish every day we still have.
Thank you ALL, for the support you have shown, it is very much appreciated.

If she's not in pain, continue to take each day at a time and enjoy your precious time together - snuggles on the sofa sound just what she needs

Wishing you well

Thats good to hear GG1, just make sure you enjoy the most of every day with her and be thankful that you have the chance to do all the last things you wanted to do with her (her favourite walk, her favourite food etc) as not everybody is as lucky as you to have the opportunity.

Hi everyone, Been a while since I spoke about the dutchess so I just thought I would update you.

She went downhill fast about 4 weeks ago, finding it difficult to breath and looked really down and sad, so we made the decision to take that trip to the vets that we had all been dreading, when we got there our usual vet was on holiday so we saw a locum and she was so kind, she examined her and asked us to leave our girl with her overnight. We were very unsure as we have always promised that if she is in any distress we would help her along, however heartbreaking that may be. In the end she was there for four nights and I still dont know exactly what happened in that time but we were delighted and shocked to pick up our girl and bring her home!!

We later found out that the vet had taken her home each evening and was basically giving her 24 hour care. It seems that because of her ongoing conditions her system is not as strong as it used to be and her body had some kind on infection. Which has for the time being been cleared.

She is a doddery old girl but happy, more importantly, she is my doddery old girl and whilst she stays happy, I will always be there for her.

I honestly believed that her time was up, but maybe someone was looking down and saying "not just yet!"

I will keep you posted.

That is wonderful news !!  That vet deserves an award .

How kind....and how wonderful to still have your Grand Old Lady

Oh Gary, I've often wondered about the duchess, having had the same breed for over 30 years. 

Just make the most of each day! 

What a heart warming story, it made me cry. Having recently lost my special girl unexpectedly, she was only 5 no age at all. This is was just wonderful to read about Duchess.

Great news and fab vet by the sounds of it.

Oh that's great news, and what a wonderful vet! We hear so many stories of vets who people feel are just in it for the money, this one shows why most of them go into the profession, a genuine love for animals - how heartwarming.

The little Seizures are really the beginning of the end but as long as she is not in any pain you may have a little bit of time.

I believe you will just know.

She sounds like she has had a lovely life with her caring owner

Wish you well.

Great to hear. The stars have obviously been shining for you

When our old golden retriever was coming to the end of her life, i always thought when the time comes for her last visit to the vet it will be me that will make the decision, but it wasn't it was my husband, because i couldn't face making that decision. Each time we went to the vet because we were there regularly i always hoped that he could cure her, but there was no cure for what she had..she was just old.

The trouble was we were so used to seeing her like this as she had been ill for two years, & was having treatment from the vet that i was blind to how ill she had become, i loved her so much that i couldn't bare the thought of her dieing,  but when my husband said i think she has had enough, after some thought i had to agree with him.

The next day i rang the vet and made an appointment for him to come to our home to do it, because she hated going to the vet. While we waited for him to come i felt like i had called the executioner.. it was a horrible feeling. But when the vet did come i sat on the floor next to her,stroking her and telling what a lovely dog she is, she was wagging her tail. When the vet did the deed she just went to sleep, our dog was not worried i made sure of that! she went to sleep listening to my voice.

It's been 9 years since our dog died, but i have photographs & memories of her & i remember the good times.

I have told you all this because i know exactly how you are feeling, but when the time comes for your dog - you are not to be worried, because they really do just go to sleep!

I have just read your last post & I'm glad your dog has picked up.

I read this and really had to clench my jaw, we have an almost 11 year old goldie and have always said when her time comes the vet will come to us.

Our girl is fit and healthy if a tiny bit stiff at times but I know when the time comes my OH will fall to pieces as she's his special lady, she helped him get over the loss of our first dog in tragic circumstances for which he has always blamed himself.

I have been married for 36 years, & in all that time i have never seen my husband cry,except when we had our goldie put to sleep. He said he was holding back the tears until i kissed her on the head (when she had just died) after that he couldn't keep it in any longer. It was a very sad day.

But looking on a happier note, a few weeks after our goldie died we bought a new puppy a lab cross from the dogs home, (even tho i always said i wouldn't get another dog as nothing could replace our goldie) but the house felt so wrong, & all tho our goldie will always be in our hearts we love our new dog, & 2 years later we bought another cross bred from the same home.

So now we have all the dogs we have owned, thats 5 of them hanging on our living room wall surrounded by our grandchildren.
I wish i knew how to do a heart on here, because this is just the post that needs it.

What a fabulous vet that was!! The compassion and wisdom to know it wasn't the right time and to nurse her to recovery. Wonderful person. Its fantastic to to find a really good vet, I have been known to present mine with flowers when she does something heroic with one of my lot. You know, life or death type things which thankfully don't happen that often. Just a little extra thanks rather than just paying the bill and I'll go right across town to find her, bypassing their other surgeries just to see this one vet. Worth her weight in gold.

Really pleased you have your little lady with you still. I wish you many more happy days together