Our golden retriever boy is just 2 and was castrated at 14 months.  He is a real softie, friendly & well thought of by other dog owners, barks when he hears someone at the door and does bark at some men (usually ones who are not used to dogs).  He is well socialised and has a few good chums who he runs with & rolls around & play fights,if we don't meet these dogs on ourwalks, he will either ignore other dogs or mill around them easily and is happy hanging around waiting for a treat. He is always off the lead and is pretty obedient, good with children but does not like some breeds and has shown deffinate agression towards them; staffordshire bull terriers, english bull terriers, boxer/mastif/staffie  type crosses & I'm a bit cautious around rotties although we rarely see them.  He had a nasty run in with a staffie about 6 months ago & I think this all stems from that occasion, we met a staffie & jack russell ( all were off leads) & a sniff suddenly became very aggressive, the staffie had a real go at our dog, but ours was not for backing down and would have fought too if I hadn't dragged him off.  Since then I always put him on a lead or take a different direction or distract if I see any of these dogs approaching, he will usually pull towards them growling, but this evening while we I was unloading the supermarket shop from the car, he was trotting backwards & forwards with me, I spotted an english bull terrier approaching on a lead, I kept talking to our dog to distract & reassure him that everything was fine but he lunged snarling at the other dog without provocation.  I got hold of him immediately & it was over quickly, but I really am at a loss to understand what is going through his mind.  I'm not particularly fearful of any dog, so I don't think he's picking up anxiety from me.

Do you have any ideas what is going on & the best way to handle this situation.

> I'm not particularly fearful of any dog, so I don't think he's picking up anxiety from me.
>

you may not be fearful of them but you will be nervous or more wound up by these breeds now because you expect a bad reaction from your boy. he'll feel your tension but not realise his attitudes the cause.

trying to distract him as you are already is the best way to go. work on having him focus on you in non stressful situations over and over, then try and apply them at need i.e sitting in the living room watching tv and so on till he knows the drill.

our behaviourist also reccommended getting them not to sit straight on  as if the dogs are heading towards each other straight on its more aggressive, try and sit him sideways.

it takes perseverance and you have to work hard on yourself not to give the wrong signals. good luck!

definately sounds like he is picking up on signals from you - i experienced a similar thing with my little springer. he was attacked by a jack russel and after that i got very nervous when any dog approached at speed and he ended up getting aggressive with other dogs - i soon realised it was me causing this to happen as i was getting so tense he was only reacting to me - so i made a real effort to relax and not expect the worst - took him to some more training classes so he could regularly mix with strange dogs and i could feel happier about him doing so and he's not been aggressive for ages now. (still annoyed though that this all started cos of a mean jrt that should have been kept on the lead!)

I'm sure dogs can also learn from bad experiences.
E.g. My dog has lately had quite a few border collies having a go at her and her whole posture and attitude when she sees a border collie from distance is different.This is straight away before I have had a chance to "feed" any of my feelings to her...

She has had a sniff with quite a few nice ones now at our training class (just to get her trust the breed again) and her behaviour when smelling them is very different to when meeting any other breed.
She is very stiff and does not relax and she is definately not feeding off me as I am not anxious in these situations and yes, she has now started to bark to any border collies we meet on our walks so I'm trying to be very aware of my own behaviour!

Problem is most around where we live are not dog friendly so we are yet to learn they can be trusted...as they can't and unfortunately the owners have them off lead and do not think it is a problem they run to my dog barking and bouncing around her which really makes her nervous and she has now started to answer to the attack...

He is propably picking up on vibes from you, try as we might to hide them they are sensitive little creatures.  It seems human nature to be a bit aprehensive of the staffie type breeds.  I know I take a double take before letting my dogs off a lead when they are about.  Not because I dont trust the breed, but where I live I really dont trust that the owners have put in the socialisation.  Steryo type I know, but true round here!
I once had a conversation with the head trainer of the Essex dog display team as my bitch at the time didn't like black dogs.  She never attacked, but prefered to stand stock still until they were gone.  He assed her, and asked me detailed questions on her character, then plonked her in a pen with some of his black dogs.  His pack were impecibaly trained and slowly but surely got her interacting with them.  Problem solved, in 15 mins for life.  He said he normally muzzled dogs to do this, but she was so soft and he had just the right dogs of the same character to put with her.
I by no means suggest you try this- it takes someone with expert knowledge of their dogs behaviour.  But maybe you could befriend someone with a dog of this breed so you can become 100% calm with the dog.  Then you can join a ring craft/ training class where there are some staffis/ bull terriers or rotties, explain to the organiser and owners why you are there, and let him see the breeds in a controled environment.  Takes dedication from you, but worth it in the end.

I think along with the vibes you are  giving out... many dogs dislike or are fearful of  some breeds..Staffies /Boxers being two of them.

The thing in when dogs meet each other they gage each other out by the other dogs body language, facial expressions and so on.

Some breeds are bad at giving off the " me friend"  vibes, and some dogs are bad at reading the " are you friend " vibes.

As the owner of Boxers, we see this on more occasions than we like ,  other breeds struggle to read my dogs   body language , facial expression, and the saying  "if in doubt , throw the first punch" comes to mind!!

Think of it this way, you are walking down the street, a little old lady is coming towards you , she is smiling, and giving of friendly vibes, you reach her, and say good morning, she says good morning back, what  a lovely day... all is well!!

Then you are walking down the same street, a very imposing 6ft body builder is walking towards you , you cant see his face, his is posturing like a peacock, and he unnerves you....  you get a little worried,  you cant cross the road, so you have two choices,  put you lead down ignore him and hope he walks by without looking at you.........or........ you take a grip on your handbag,   and wait till he gets close enough  then whack him, before he whacks you!!!!!

I think this is why some dogs take dislikes to other breeds.. they cant read them correctly, Boxers, Staffies have an air about them they ooze, self confidence, when walking towards others dogs, they are "that"  big bloke who is worrying, so the other dog sometimes has no choice but to wade in first to make sure they get the first punch in.

I wonder if this is why your boy has  a dislike of these breeds.

Just a thought!!!!!!!

How well put.

Hmm that is interesting as i have noticed the my boy isn't particulary liking of BM'S, maybe this again has something to do what you have written which makes a bit more sense, though he has no issues with Boxers or Staffs as yet. This is only when he is on a lead and in close proximity to this breed at shows(open), as we tend to share the same ring or are next to each other in the rings.
I now try and keep him away from them, i personally don't have an issue with this breed, rather like them tbh.

> I think this is why some dogs take dislikes to other breeds.. they cant read them correctly, Boxers, Staffies have an air about them they ooze, self confidence, when walking towards others dogs, they are "that"  big bloke who is worrying, so the other dog sometimes has no choice but to wade in first to make sure they get the first punch in.

I agree jackbox. My dog gives off the 'big bloke' vibes and despite friendly body language, he seems to make most other dogs go on the defensive, funnily enough, other dogs with the 'big bloke' vibe (boxers, staffies, rotties & the 1 mastiff-cross we've met) don't appear to take offence at him. Lots of dogs do get intimidated by a confidant dog, unless they, themselfs, have the same confidence.

> Lots of dogs do get intimidated by a confidant dog, unless they, themselves, have the same confidence.

I'd agree there.  My breed are a fairly confident appearing breed with usually a 'hail fellow, well met' attitude, but some more sensitive breeds don't like them on first meeting, but if I ensure that my youngsters are as calm and less in your face then they are liked by everyone.

So it does behove owners of very confident dogs to be aware that they may over face less confident ones and owners of less confident dogs to realise their dogs may react aggressively toward other dogs and more socialisation in controlled ways with known friendly dogs of the type that scare them is a must.

jackbox has got it!!

breeds that no longer look like dogs, like boxers that have a shorter muzzle etc.
another thing is that black dogs can be hard to read, as other dogs cant see there eyes. and snaling can be hard to see.

breeds that no longer look like dogs, like boxers that have a shorter muzzle etc

Pardon... my Boxers look very much like dogs thank you !!!!!!!!

I take it you mean in reference to other dogs not being able to read them....so that includes Staffies. Rotties, Mastiffs and any breed that has a  "ME HE MAN"  attitude????????

> breeds that no longer look like dogs, like boxers that have a shorter muzzle

Sorry but i think statement either needs clarifying or an apology to those in the bully breeds.
Think you do need to think about what you are writing before you press send on some of your posts.

Aaaaah that makes so much sense!!

My 7 month old Boxer has been getting a little grief lately and now I know why. The dogs that know him and have seen him grow up are a absolutely fine with him, and once they get to know him they are also OK. But if we meet a new dog they quite often give him a growl and try to chase him off. Bless him, he's such a softy, but I guess they don't know that. Not if they can't read his facial expressions. It doesn't worry me so much as it used to, but I do wish they'd stop doing it, or rather their owners would take some kind of control, rather than giving me their usual retort of "Oh he/she doesn't like Boxers". We just give them a smile and carry on walking.

That also explains why a friend of mine's white GSD doesn't like black dogs.

How interesting!

I'm trying not to take offence at the 'bull breeds not looking like dogs' comment!!

I'm trying not to take offence at the 'bull breeds not looking like dogs' comment!!

Well you are doing better than me then..because I have!!!!

My dogs bark/ have 4 legs / a tail/  eat like a dog act like a dog, look like a dog!!!!

Comments like that dont give ones self much credibility  I am afriad!!

Dogs come in all shapes and sizes, shame some cant see that!!  or are you only allowed to call a dog a dog, when it has a long nose and clear facial expressions???

im am never going to write anything on here ever again you always take it the wrong way, boxers have a brachyphalic head. where wolves and most other breeds have mesocephalic heads, this makes boxers hard to read for a dog!!!!.
rotties have the tan markings above there eyes which in nature is sometimes called '4 eyes' which is seen as a threat. staffies are usualy black and masstiffs are very large breeds being intimidating, they also can have saggy skin which isnt normal for a dog, and dont be snobby about these comments talk to a behaviourist and you will know, my aunt is one. so i should know what im talking about as i used to go to her training classes. she is highly recomended. and alot of people travel to see her.
at  ringcraft it is the pugs that nearly always get attacked, as in this case they are black, have an extreme brachyphalic head, small which alot of teh dogs havet seen and they make funny/scary noises.

no, im just saying this in most dogs point of veiw. i have dogs.
dudley a yorkiepoo......."a rat"

connie lhasa x chihuahua......."a rat"

i dont call them rats they are my dogs but according to you i do!!!

thank you 'littlemissdrago'.

none of my dogs liked boxers, but a family member has one and with in seconds of letting them meet properly they were fine.
my dogs are still alittle unsure.

im am never going to write anything on here ever again you always take it the wrong way, boxers have a brachyphalic head. where wolves and most other breeds have mesocephalic heads, this makes boxers hard to read for a dog!!!!.
rotties have the tan markings above there eyes which in nature is sometimes called '4 eyes' which is seen as a threat. staffies are usualy black and masstiffs are very large breeds being intimidating, they also can have saggy skin which isnt normal for a dog, and dont be snobby about these comments talk to a behaviourist and you will know, my aunt is one. so i should know what im talking about as i used to go to her training classes. she is highly recomended. and alot of people travel to see her.

You implied that brachycephalic breeds no longer looked like dogs.... that is what my answer to you was about.

They are dogs,  the fact the shape of their face is different to other breeds does not make them any less a dog.

Yes I agree some breeds have difficulty reading  them..but it is not ALL down to the way they look, its also has something to do with the essence of the dog, the body language of the dog .something your aunt will be well aware of I am sure.

Condemning breeds because you dont like the look of them, is rather prejudicial dont you think.

There are many  breeds that give off an air of importance,  that also get into trouble with other dog.. and not all of the are brachycephalic or have dark faces!!

no, im just saying this in most dogs point of veiw. i have dogs.
dudley a yorkiepoo......."a rat"

connie lhasa x chihuahua......."a rat"

i dont call them rats they are my dogs but according to you i do!!!

Pardon ???

> There are many  breeds that give off an air of importance,  that also get into trouble with other dog.. and not all of the are brachycephalic or have dark faces!!

I pointed this very fact out regarding my breed that are very primitive in their looks, other than the tight curly tail, it's their confident manner that is difficult for some breeds especially those with more juvenile submissive characteristics.

I think is is the fact that dogs come in such widely diverging physical and mental characteristics and also attract very different owners that is at the root of some of the social problems they experience.

Generally most breeds can easily read the breed they are and those they have a close association with.

I think is is the fact that dogs come in such widely diverging physical and mental characteristics and also attract very different owners that is at the root of some of the social problems they experience.

Agree completey with the above..

>staffies are usualy black

Eh? Staffies are sometimes black, but come in a wide range of colours. If anything I'd say fawn or brindle (with or without white) are far more common than black.

> I think this is why some dogs take dislikes to other breeds.. they cant read them correctly

This is something I have wondered - not from the breed but from the other dog's socialisation skills.  I have never been able to work out how my dog will react to approaching dogs.  I know the chances of her lunging and growling are naturally increased on the lead where she is forced to go in too close to dogs she is wary of but off lead there is always the occasional one she is very very wary of inspite of the owner saying that their dog gets on fine with others.  It isn't breed related - although having been attacked by a boxer when she was young has made her even more cautious of that breed.  She has met plenty of nice ones to make up for it.  Being a WSD she really watches other dogs closely for signs of their intentions.  She just cannot read some dogs - or misreads a dog from a distance.

> Then you can join a ring craft/ training class where there are some staffis/ bull terriers or rotties,

A good suggestion.  Our ringcraft has a massive Rottie, biggest I've ever seen.  The owner is quite obviously a responsible owner.  She allowed my boy to get to know him.  I now have a 3lbs Chi pup running up to say hi.  It does help to have a good Rottie owner though.

> Being a WSD she really watches other dogs closely for signs of their intentions.

and this is often taken as a threat by other dogs as staring is perceived as confrontational.

I dont have a bull breed but the comment "mastiffs sometimes have saggy skin which isnt normal for a dog" is quite  a harsh remark whats not normal about it
there are alot of breeds with heavy heads that arent bull breeds   and dont appear to be misread by others
mine included  

>> Then you can join a ring craft/ training class where there are some staffis/ bull terriers or rotties,
> A good suggestion. 

I always advise owners that ringcraft can be very useful purely for socialisation.  The atmosphere is more relaxed with lots of waiting and getting to know time rather than training as at Obedience classes, so the pup can better learn to socialise, whereas at obedience classes the general aim is for them to concentrate on the owner and largely learn to ignore the other dogs.

She will be flat on the ground when she is doing so (ie watching the other dog) except of course when on the lead - where she will still make herself as small and low as possible.  This isn't just a trait of Collies though is it?  The other day we were walking towards a terrier type and they were like mirror images which was quite funny! 

That is the stalking stance, if I am reading your description correctly.  Herding is an adaptation of the stalking used when a wolf hunts, and of course terriers are hunters.

Of course!  Cat's do it too!

i take back, not normal to a dog...

i will use the turm primitive.

and remember its only been for teh last few 1000 years that humans have had dogs. and most of teh breeds have only been around for the last few 100 years.

which isnt long enough for social greetings etc. to change.

ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_dog_breeds

In relation to this link it states that many different dogs are very ancient, this includes the Shar Pei(Wrinkles), Chow and Peke..

To me they all look different and evolved differently due to the area they came from.

ETA: Oh and no Gundogs there in the list, the same list comes up on other websites as well.
No offence to those with gundogs as we also have one, but trying to put the point across here.

the shar pei's wrinkles are relitivly new to the breed, they were bred in so that they could be used in fighting, the other dogs would hang off them. and was an exageration of eth breed in the the show ring
quote from wiki.
Shar Pei usually come in two varieties: one is covered in large folds of wrinkles, even into adulthood (the Western type and mainly Brush Coat). The other variation has skin that appears tighter on its body, with wrinkles just on the face and at the withers (the original type and Horse Coat).

but dont forget that all thes breeds did not evolve, they were selectivly bred, the greyhound type dogs did evolve, but was also selectively bred to then run faster etc.