after extension research and nearly 18 months of planning we are currently trying to mate our bitch, however, our first meeting with the male yesterday was a shock even with all my research, can anybody offer any advice on getting them to lock together, both where willing and ready just couldn't get that lock. And alot of places quote different times they should mate through the season, can anybody offer advice on that? she is currently on her 11th day into the season. x
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I assume that the bitch is a maiden, so you need an experienced dog with an experienced handler. Two maiden animals with handlers who've never managed matings before is almost certainly doomed to failure.

She can only be mated when she is ready -that could mean day 3 for one bitch, day 11 for another and day 19 for a third etc etc -you need to know your own bitch and be able to tell when she is ready. Having spent time researching presumably you will have picked a good (and experienced) stud dog with an experienced owner -the stud dog owner should be the person to help out here.

Just had my own bitch mated, days 18 and 19, last time she was mated days 13 to 17, and first time days 15 to 17.  So even in the same bitches the time they are ready can vary.  This is where an experienced and reliable stud dog is a god send.

Agree with Barbara on differences in the same bitch.  It's why I smile when people say "the book" says day 14!  I have never yet met a bicth that read the book!.

One of my girls wouldn't mate until day 17 for her first litter.  Just the one tie, and it produced pups.  Her second litter, she was up for it on day 8.  So nobody can tell you when your girl is ready.  

I'm pretty much right with my own girls, I'm used to them, but have to admit that I use my stud boy to tell me, even if I'm not using him.  You do need an experienced stud dog owner.  Although I have mated two maidens, they were my own, and I knew what I was doing.

Using a experienced stud is your way forward.

hi there is nothing you can do to acheive a tie, this will happen once a succesful mating has taken place which will only happen once the bitch is ready! bitches hav also been known to stand and also except a mating even if theyre not or havnt ovulated. also perhaps the dog hasnt ejaculated hence the no tie as this happens once all three stages of ejacultaion has happened. also on another thought a bitch CAN get pregnant with no tie....hope this helps x

"hi there is nothing you can do to acheive a tie"

Not quite accurate in my experience, as an experienced dog, handled by someone who knows what they are doing, is much more likely to achieve a tie than someone who has never done a mating before.  Even an inexperienced dog with an experienced handler may be encouraged to a mating which would not happen if left to it's own devices. 

Tried , unsucessfully with my bitch over a period of 2 weeks from when she was flagging ... nothing .. (had a tie and everything ) .. On repeat mate , a year on ..there was everything going well but no tie .. she still had a good sized if not large sized litter ...

Jeangenie said: . Two maiden animals with handlers who've never managed matings before is almost certainly doomed to failure.

I have to disagree with this statement. Although I have only bred 3 litters 2 of those were with maiden dogs and bitches. The first time I did have an experienced friend to help who then recruited her even more experienced friend and her draminski ovulation detector . We spent 3 hours in the afternoon unsuccessfully trying to get a mating. I was told the bitch was to small, the dog was too big, she was not ready, she had gone over  and I would never get a successful mating. etc, etc, etc.
That night I let the dogs out for a last wee and turned round and there they were tied for 40 minutes. 4 lovely puppies.

This time again both bitch and dog were  maidens, we spent an hour with them in the garden while they got to know each other, then I just popped into the kitchen for a moment came out and they were tied. 35 minutes and 9 lively puppies.

In fact now I come to think about it my pet bitch years ago my husband let out of the house while I was at work and I came home to find her tied with a dog on the drive. She was definitely a maiden although I suppose I don't know if he was. She had a very quick trip to the vets for the injection and I got a divorce.

Also agree with Barbara one of my girls first two times was mated around days 16/18 last time after missing twice she was mated day 6.  Had her blood tested day four and had an urgent phone call on day 6 telling me to take her straight away!

> The first time I did have an experienced friend to help who then recruited her even more experienced friend and her draminski ovulation detector

In which case I would wonder the level of experience, as a Draminski is something which has to be used for quite a time before you know the bitch is ready, a reading on just one day own't tell you anything at all!  From memory you need a pattern of at least 2 weeks results to build a chart so you can see the peaks which indicate ovulation.

Of course, you will find that dogs and  bitches do it themselves form time to time, but this is hardly a method which can be recomended as as way which will give a good chance of acheiving a mating and resulting preganancy, and oculd result in injury if the bitch reacts violently to the dog, especially if it is a strange dog, as I think is the case with the OP.  I would say it is a recipe for disappointment if not disaster to suggest that a dog and bitch are just turned loose together in the hope that a mating will take place.

In which case I would wonder the level of experience, as a Draminski is something which has to be used for quite a time before you know the bitch is ready, a reading on just one day won't tell you anything at all!

The friend has breeding labs for years. I have no idea about how to use the draminski. My girl had just started standing for the dog on day 14 but the draminski said she had gone past which I didn't understand as she wouldn't entertain him until then.
I wasn't recommending that they be turned out unsupervised. My dogs were carefully watched but they both seemed to pick the moment that my attention was elsewhere for a few seconds to actually tie.
I was right there with them all through.

sometimes I have seen posts that suggest that it is almost impossible to mate inexperienced dogs and that it should only be attempted by experts. I just wanted to point out that it is possible. and I had more success letting the dogs do it without my help than I did when I was actively trying to assist

That night I let the dogs out for a last wee and turned round and there they were tied for 40 minutes. 4 lovely puppies.

But you were LUCKY there Sonja. I'm sure you know what happened when Dandy and Ripley accidentally mated. Ripley tried to move away and we had a trip to the vet at 10 pm with two dogs that both were injured, it took 3 days before poor Dandy stopped bleeding. Some bitches just have to be held, with Ripley it always took two people for her and one for the dog. I have a Papillon bitch who is the same, has to be held firmly to not run off when tied.

Goodness I would never leave a dog with an inseason bitch.   I've seen too many injuries.

I know I was lucky and with hindsight I would not have let them out together but I had had two people spend half the afternoon telling me I would never be able to get them to mate and I was wasting my time trying so I wasn't expecting anything to happen!

I hadn't realised that Ripley was so hard to mate. I guess I am really lucky then as both Amber and Ruby were happy to stand there with me stroking their heads.

Probably a good thing to have threads like this so people can see the various problems other people have.

Probably a good thing to have threads like this so people can see the various problems other people have.

Indeed. One thing I wished I'd known before I first mated a Papillon was that some bitches in that breed scream all through the tie -when that first happened I did enough worry LOL, but the stud dog owner then told me oh that's common in her own bitches. I needed earplugs for each tie we got!

> The friend has breeding labs for years. I have no idea about how to use the draminski. My girl had just started standing for the dog on day 14 but the draminski said she had gone past

My point was that with one single reason it is not possible for the Drmainski to tell you anything at all, which is why I queried the level of experiecne of the person helping - some people think they are a lot more expret than they acutally are!  Please don't feel I am getting at you, as it is of course possible for a dog and bitch to get it together and achieve a mating without help, or else there would never be the accidental matings which occur, however it is not a recomended method, not only can there be problems if a tie occurs but if the bitch is not ready she can get very angry with the dog if he does attempt to mate (as some may do, especially inexperienced ones) and  may atack him quite sharply, I have seen some nasty facial/ear injuries occur due to this.  You can also arrive at the situation that a dog alloowed/encourage to mate this was will not consider a bitch if someone is holding her, which can considerably inhibit his stud career!

Not all bitches will tie, some just only achieve slip matings. As said an experienced handler is the answer. Also an experienced stud, it is the bitch that grabs, It can be necessary to hold the stud, some will not let you.

Denese

> Not all bitches will tie, some just only achieve slip matings.

I personally think it takes both dogs to achieve the tie, the bitches muscles grip the dog but the dog must stay in place for the bulb at the base of his penis to enlarge to be held.

One of my males has not tied in 5 years, he would never allow me to interfere and would always swell and go through the tie process but outside the bitch....very frustrating. Last month for the first time he allowed me to bear hug in behind him once he started to 'climb the ladder' and hey presto his first tie in 5 years so it was definately him failing to tie in the past not the bitches as they had successfully tied with a different male.

Mating isnt always as easy as people think it is

> Mating isnt always as easy as people think it is

You got that in one Mandy!!!  

But, if you're experienced enough to accept that some things were meant to be, and not be uptight, you give much better vibes off to your boy.  And, sometimes, you can even have a laugh! 

I have a younger, less experienced boy, only proven once, and I had a visiting bitch for him - and she was too tall!!!! 

I didn't want to put him off, with his lack of experience, and I took it slow, but I knew that he was going to have to accept my help.  I don't know at which point he realised that he needed assisstance, but he let me give him a hand up, and hold him in place.  Great - Success!  And a lovely litter resulted.

But, bless him, when he sees a larger bitch now, he comes and asks me to lift him on!     

some just only achieve slip matings

Found out yesterday that my maiden bitch is in pup. Mated with a maiden dog and only achieved 2 slip matings, no tie despite 4 of us holding both dog and bitch in place!!

But, bless him, when he sees a larger bitch now, he comes and asks me to lift him on!

That made me chuckle

My boy sired 2 litters without any ties...so slip matings can and do produce puppies, just that a tie is prefered as you know then that he has delivered the goods!

I personally think it takes both dogs to achieve the tie, the bitches muscles grip the dog but the dog must stay in place for the bulb at the base of his penis to enlarge to be held.

I think so too -otherwise would not a bitch always have the same length tie? One of mine had 3 litters. The first and third litter she had ties of about 20 minutes at each mating, the second litter only a one minute tie was achieved each time.

we tried to mate our bitch a few months ago and never achieved a tie, took her for a scan and she wasnt in whelp we were so disapointed, but we will try again next time with a experienced stud- hope you have more luck than us x