Wow.... Just read the topic Should I offer my dog at Stud? http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/55104.html

I am a new owner of a GSD, about 10 months now.  I had been looking for about 2-3 years for one and found a breader in Wales (I live in Hertfordshire) so it was some drive to go and have a look and for them to meet me.

Well cut a long storey short, I like them they liked me and I was a proud father of a puppy GSD.  Best thing I have ever done I tell you. He is my best mate, my shadow and my baby even now at an age of 1 years old.

Anyways, so many people have made nice comments, one of the best looking GSD's etc etc and was going to get him neuted, but my Breader said if he isnt showing signs of aggresion then dont worry about it.  Then I got asked if I would stud him, I got worried as I had never met this guy before and was on one of my daily walks.  Well I said to the guy no I am having neuted and he huffed and went on his way.

But I think I would like to stud him, he is a good looking chap and has the best ever temperament with my young children and also guarding his pack.

After reading the above said topic, am worried whether I should now?

Any advice?  He is also KC Reg. 

Using a pet dog at stud because other pet owners think he is the best thing since sliced bread isn't a good reason.

Firstly are all the dogs in his five generation pedigree all hip scored under the breed mean(currently 19) ? Are all the hip scores fairly even(1:1-2 etc) ? Are all the males in his pedigree Haemophilia tested normal ? Are at least the last two generations of his pedigree all elbow scored 1 or 0 ? Is his pedigree free from epileptic producing dogs/bitches ? Has he passed any working tests at all ? Have you had his hips & elbows scored  & is he haemophilia tested normal ? if the answer to any of these questions is no, then think again.

The same must apply to any bitch you consider using him on.

Have you checked the two dogs pedigree ? Do you know where to look on the KC site to check health tests ? Is the bitch over 2 years of age ?

Why do you(not the bitches owner)want to breed from your dog ?

Just because a dog is KC registered &(in your eyes)good looking this is no reason to breed from your dog.

The question is how would your dog improve the GSD breed ?

Only the very best dogs should be bred from, I've had many male dogs who I & others(including breed specializts & working dog handlers in more than one breed)think they are super, but only three were ever used at stud & then only after me having owned the breed for over 20 years for my GSDs & 10 years for my ISDS(working)Border Collie. All had exception temperaments, physical contsruction & passed all their health tests. I did limit the bitches they were used on & non of them produced litters to pet only bitches. The GSDs produced several working police dogs from litters bred by the Police themselves.

The thing is StuieBucike, most of us with a pedigree dog that is to breed standard or close to it, have had the general public come up to us whilst on walks and ask if we are going to stud or breed our beautiful dog/bitch, it appears to be a natural statement from people, really it is a way of them saying you have a nice dog and passing on a compliment.

The people doing this should never be taken seriously, because they know nothing about breeding, about health checks, hips, line history, temperament matching or whether the dog can bring anything to the breed, they generally know nothing about the breed itself even, or have an ulterior motive thinking they have found a sucker to breed with their bitch of the same breed....... or not!

Breeding is all about matching two lines together to give strengths and compliment the breed and hopefully to bring future champions to the line. Really the people best placed to know this of any dog are found at dog shows, where if you are to become interested in showing, or any of the other KC run activities he can become noticed and commented on, perhaps even elivated to winning, then he becomes a potential stud dog.

Otherwise, just enjoy him as a pet like the millions of others who do, who have also been told by someone from the GP that they should breed their dog.

I'm sure that he is a beautiful dog, but, aren't they all?

I too have a beautiful gsd male as we all have LOLwho gets loads of compliments and a crossbreed pom/chi bitch. I have been asked a number of times about breeding from them. My advice to you and one I have followed is a firm NO Breeding should imo be left to those who have the time desire and money to research what they are doing adn too produce good healthy dogs.
I would love the idea of pups especially from our little bitch but feel its really not right I bought my dogs for pets I would leave breeding to others.  As has been said most people you meet wont have a clue about breeding apart from the money it potentially could bring and that really doesn't help any breed.
Sorry for going on but I feel quite strongly  Enjoy your lovely dog perhaps get him neutered if thats what you decide and have another dog if that is appropriate and not one from your boy. 

Hi StuiBucike and welcome

first off, well done for looking into this first before jumping straight in, your being very sensible doing so, many people don't do any research to both their and the dogs detriment.

also, congratulations on your boy, he sounds lovely.

as others have said there are a lot of health issues to consider. obviously you would not want to bring your boys babies into the world without trying to make sure they would have healthy happy lives.

you'd also be responsible for the lives of the puppies. if one of them was brought back by their owner the bitches owner and you would have to try and sort something out. its a huge responsibility.

since your boy sounds a real star have you considered showing him at all? dog shows are brilliant days out and (contrary to popular belief) are fun for the dogs to. if your boy did well and then passed his health testing you'd be able to seek great advise from experts and you'd be beating off the owners of great bitches with a stick

if you showed him he will be judged by experts in the breed who can advice you on what areas he might need building up- so you can choose bitches that compliment him and the pups (hopefully) turn out even better.

GSD's are a very much abused breed by pet breeders, its why you get so many dodgy examples about. you love your boy and you seem to love the breed, so both are worth the time and effort of seeing if its best for them to breed him.

HTH

Kim

Alternatively to showing him and to prove that he is fit for purpose why not train him for working Trials or obedience.

Thank you all for your comments and advice.

At time of registering my GSD, I also paid and received a 5 generation certificate and he had 3 champions in his blood line, so I have also considered showing and or breeding him.

He is a straight back GSD not the bent back shaped type which you see a lot of.

He has so many good traits and I think with the correct bitch would make some nice pups hence why I decided to post in the first place.

Not knowing how to go about it and to be honest am a complete novice into this, I posted asking for advice.  Mainly seems to be stay away and leave the breeders to it, but my reason was firstly too A, find out more about it and B, if there was a demand for it, I could offer him up for breeding.  I didn't want to just breed him, I can do that easily but would be the wrong way of doing it. 

I have already contacted our Vets to get costs of Hip Scoring which I thought £400 was extremely expensive as I am not looking to earn out of it was my first reason to back away from breeding.

Not saying I wouldn't mind having a pup from his litter, I could just go find another pup from a breeder but it's just having a sibling from my dog.

So again thanks for your comments, I think I will have a re think on the breeding side of things, maybe look into firstly showing him and see where we go from there

I'd just like to point out that once he has been used at stud .....he'll want to be used again and again

Some people do find that their pet changes - and not always for the best - once he's experienced it!

Stu - you have read the thread* above this one, haven't you .....it makes you aware of the obligations of the owner of the stud once a litter is born!

*"Should I offer my dog at stud"

> I have already contacted our Vets to get costs of Hip Scoring which I thought £400 was extremely expensive as I am not looking to earn out of it was my first reason to back away from breeding.
>
> Not saying I wouldn't mind having a pup from his litter, I could just go find another pup from a breeder but it's just having a sibling from my dog.
>
> So again thanks for your comments, I think I will have a re think on the breeding side of things, maybe look into firstly showing him and see where we go from there

& what about the other puppies from any litter(s)he produces, would you able to take those back if the breeder or new owners couldn't keep them ?

It isn't just a case of hip scoring for him-all of his pedigree should be hip scored, there is elbow scoring, DNA test for dwarfism &  the haemophilia test(all the males in his pedigree show be tested normal). Have you checked your dog's pedigree for known epilepsy producers(these could be off his pedigree that you hold) ?

So many GSD owners think only of their dogs being hip scored & having a low score is the only thing that is needed. It isn't, if you PM me his KC name I will be able to tell you if his parents have been hip/elbow scored-if they haven't been, then no matter how good his hips are, really he should not be bred from.

> and he had 3 champions in his blood line,

The number of champions in itself is not a guarantee of quality.

I have a bitch that I do not consider to be anything special show wise yet in her 5 generation pedigree only 13 are not champions, out of 62 ancestors.

It is how well the various lines have blended in the individual that matters, a good pedigree will make it more likely that a dog may pass on the good traits of it's ancestors.

So I would show and'/or work him and see how he goes against his peers for the next two or three seasons. 

If he is good enough then experienced people in the breed may take an interest, and those are the kind of bitch owners that you want.

> DNA test for dwarfism

i met a gsd with this recently, and he had a weird skin condition, he was all wrinkly and hair falling off poor wee soul

Sadly they do not live very long

Have you asked the breeder of you boy whether or not he has show potential and/or how they would feel about you offering him for stud?

> Sadly they do not live very long

that is very sad. he was a sweet wee guy.