Does anyone have an up-to-date info on which are the reliable wormers against lungworm?  I'm just worried as we have a lot of slugs in our garden.  Also, I've been given contradictive info regarding vaccination periods for pups i.e. the time between jabs and also the isolation perios after the 2nd jab... what is the general consensus now?  Different people seem to have different ideas.

I went to our vet for the same reason and we were given Milibex (sp)

Milbemax?  Oh, well if that and Drontal do the trick for prevention, that's great, it's just I'd heard they didn't prevent it...

Milbemax is fine as long as your dogs isn't a herding breed that has the MDR-1 gene, it shouldn't be given to untested herding breeds

The datasheet for Milbemax only says "Studies with milbemycin oxime indicate that the margin of safety in certain dogs of Collie or related breeds is less than in other breeds. In these dogs, the recommended dose should be strictly observed."

>I've been given contradictive info regarding vaccination periods for pups i.e. the time between jabs and also the isolation perios after the 2nd jab...

What have you been told? Most manufacturers say that there must be a minimum of 14 days between first and 2nd jab, and that the second must not be given at less than 10 weeks of age, after which the pup is considered to have full immunity after a further 14 days.

But not many people can bear to wait that long, especially with larger breed puppies who are too heavy to carry about to socialise!

Please quote the Contra Indications advice in full

Contra-indications, warnings, etc
Do not use the 'tablets for Small dogs and Puppies' in dogs of less than 2 weeks of age and/or weighing less than 0.5 kg
Do not use the 'tablets for Dogs' in dogs weighing less than 5 kg.
See also "Special precautions for use".
Studies with milbemycin oxime indicate that the margin of safety in certain dogs of Collie or related breeds is less than in other breeds. In these dogs, the recommended dose should be strictly observed.
The tolerance of MILBEMAX in young puppies from these breeds has not been investigated.

Thats interesting because Jake is a Border Collie.

> Most manufacturers say that there must be a minimum of 14 days between first and 2nd jab, and that the second must not be given at less than 10 weeks of age, after which the pup is considered to have full immunity after a further 14 days

But after 10 weeks of age only 1 vaccination is required, as per the Intervet site:

Primary course vaccination:

A single injection should establish active immunity to canine distemper, infectious canine hepatitis and disease caused by canine parvovirus infection in dogs of 10 weeks of age or older.   Where earlier protection is required a first dose may be given to puppies from 6 weeks of age, but because maternally derived passive antibody can interfere with the response to vaccination a final dose at 10 weeks of age or older is generally recommended. For an optimal response to the parainfluenza component, animals should be vaccinated twice, 2-4 weeks apart with the final vaccination at 10 weeks of age or more.

Is he MDR-1 normal ?

If he isn't I wouldn't use Milbemax without him being accurately weighed & the dose calculated & if he was my dog I would have him MDR-1 tested, all my BCs are & will be in the future.

>But after 10 weeks of age only 1 vaccination is required, as per the Intervet site:

Please refer to the whole range of illnesses covered, not just a section. The lepto part requires a second jab, regardless of whether the first part was given before or after 10 weeks of age.

Umm is there a problem Jake has been fine he is checked by the vet annually and I could not see a problem with Millbemax what could have happened? Whats MDR-1? remember were just pet owners?

As the Lepto Vax is the one that lasts less than a year & doesn't cover all the servovars of Lepto here in the UK & as it causes the vast majority of adverse reactions my dogs do not get a lepto vax ever

MDR-1 is multi-drug resistance gene & if present can cause severe reaction to Invermectin & Invermectin derivative drugs-one of which is Milbemax

Even a single copy of the gene can cause sensitivity & there is no way to know if a dog has this gene(s)without a DNA test. Your vet should have been aware of this, I'm surprised he/she doesn't

>As the Lepto Vax is the one that lasts less than a year

That's why mine get it annually throughout their lives. In the past year we've treated three dogs for lepto infection (confirmed by an independent lab), all of which had lapsed boosters and contracted L. icterohaemorrhagiae, one of the serovars in the vaccine. 

>Invermectin & Invermectin derivative drugs-one of which is Milbemax

Ivermectin isn't mentioned in the datasheet as being a component, only Milbemycin oxime and Praziquantel PhEur. Further googling tells me that mibemycin differs from the avermectin group because of the lack of chemical sugars at C-13. Not being a chemist, that means very little to me!

It's the lepto vax that killed my father's dog, not Lepto itself, however as you work for a vet vaxing dogs yearly is what I would expect you advise people to do. If only my father had listened to me.

>It's the lepto vax that killed my father's dog, not Lepto itself,

I'm sorry about that. We've had no adverse reactions from vaccines in the three years I've been working there, and certainly no deaths. We've had deaths from anaesthetics, though ...

It is not Invermectin itself, but is closely related to the Avermectins(from Streptomyces avermectinius) & is produced from the same family bacteria(Streptomyces hygroscopicus aureolacrimosus), there have been adverse reactions to Milbemax, hence the warning in the packaging.

> We've had no adverse reactions from vaccines in the three years I've been working there

Well perhaps that is because the manufacturers have changed the protocol to three yearly boosters for the multi vaccine, the animals immune systems have a chance to recovery from the assault from the lepto vax before you started to work there.

>perhaps that is because the manufacturers have changed the protocol to three yearly boosters for the multi vaccine

The manufacturers' protocol is still to have the lepto part annually.

If you are going to quote me quote me in full Where did I write the lepto 3 yearly ????

Well perhaps that is because the manufacturers have changed the protocol to three yearly boosters for the multi vaccine, the animals immune systems have a chance to recovery from the assault from the lepto vax before you started to work there

>the animals immune systems have a chance to recovery from the assault from the lepto vax before you started to work there

I don't understand your point. The animals are still having the lepto vaccine annually, just as they always did, so there's exactly the same 'assault from the lepto vax' on their immune systems as before.

Does anyone have an up-to-date info on which are the reliable wormers against lungworm?  I'm just worried as we have a lot of slugs in our garden.

I still use good old reliable Panacur for Lungworms worked for the sheep when gdad had them and worked for the parrots along with of course my schippy pups and their owners.  The only schip of mine that's ever had Lungworm has been 1 who's owners stopped using Panacur on vets advice, she certainly regretted that when her adult bitch got very sick.

Umm so am I, I would say Jake is fine but is there other drugs that I should be aware of?
He has had major surgery for OCD and had his shoulder (rebored). Do you recommend a test? he did have all his bloods done before surgery (as did Whistler) would anything have shown then? or should I ask for a MDR - 1 test?

Thanks for the info I feel really dumb and upset that we could have damaged or even killed him trying to be careful of lung worm.

Hi it is worth having a look at This Page
Edited to add blood test wouldnt show up Jakes MDR-1 status as it is a specific genetic test only done at certain centres. It is useful to know his status for all kinds of situatuions as you can see there are quite a number of drugs that should be avoided.

Thank you so much Ive printed and will talk to my vet about thebtest, better safe than sorry!

Thank you all.  None of our lot are collies.  Will have another chat with vet tomorrow.