Well last week we had 2 slip matings and a short outside tie for my girl, she was not overly co-operative and tried to sag at the knees every time the stud dog owner tried to help direct the dog! All I can really do now is wait and see, but all stories of successful litters from just slips would be lovely to keep my hopes up!

ps my husband has been smirking and saying 'she listened to me instead of you because I didn't want a 4th dog anyway' - hmph!

I've never had a slip but I know pups can and do arrive from slips so don't dispair, its entirely possible so my fingers are crossed for you.

I had 2 slip matings with my maiden bitch to an unproven dog so I was thinking we were doomed from the start. Vet confirmed she was in pup and we are now doing the countdown - They are due on Saturday!!

I have my fingers crossed for you.

I once had a bitch come to my, as then unused Stud Dog, and after 3 slip matings, in due course, produced 15 pups. EEK.

A few years ago I also had a litter from a slip mating. Fingers crossed that all goes as planned.

Thanks all - keep them coming! And OMG to Jaycee - 4 or 5 would be plenty thank you very much!!

I too have had a litter from slip matings but I'm not too sure what you mean about an outside tie?

> but I'm not too sure what you mean about an outside tie?

Basically a slip mating where the dog stays in the bitch with handlers help.  the dog ties outside the bitch through over excitement before he is in far enough.  Not uncommon in breeds where the stud is smaller than the bitch because he simply can't reach far enough.

A bitch of mine had an outside tie, she was infact smaller than the dog. Anyway, she went on to have 3 puppies, but needed an emergency c-section. Turns out she had a stricture high up near her cervix, preventing her from whelping the puppies herself - obviously only discovered during the op. I  have assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the stricure was what caused them to tie outside - does anyone know if this is likely ? Needless to say, I didn't breed from her again.

Sounds likely as this would have prevented him getting where needed, and is in fact the reason for some bitches failing to be mated at all.

Thanks Barbara, I did think so but wondered if it was possibly just a coincidence.

had a slip mating last year which lasted no more than 3 minutes and produced 6 gorgeous pups.  this year the same bitch had a tied mating but the scan showed no pups at 30 days.  however she is having another scan next week as she's enormous and showing all pregnancy signs.  is it down to luck?

We only managed slip matings with my bitch and she went on to have a litter of 10!!!

Thanks for all the encouragement. Interested to hear about the possible reasons for outside ties - in my own case, this bitch was mated to this same dog 2 years ago with 2 successful ties without any particular trouble, so I don't know what she was playing at this time round. Time will tell...

can you explain a ' outside tie ' please? i have always understood the tie was when the dogs were actually tied together? so how can a outside tie be? sorry if i am being a bit thick headed here

> can you explain a ' outside tie ' please? i

A male dog is able to mate a bitch because he has a bone in his organ, he doesn't become fully erect until inside the bitch and the gland at the base of the organ swells (it feels almost like a second pair of testicles).

What sometimes happens is the dog either thinks he is where he should be or the bitch moves and the engorgement and swelling of the bulbous glandis occur outside the bitch or more correctly partly outside the bitch (he isn't fully in) but if handled it is possible to keep the pair in close contact so that the ejaculate gets into the bitch and not wasted on the ground

When my girl had an outside tie, they were properly tied, you couldn't separate them (not that we tried lol) and it lasted approx 1/2 hour and we didn't actually need to hold them together. But he wasn't fully in at all.
Glad to hear from the OP that this same bitch has achieved a proper tie in the past and so no worries of a stricture and possible whelping difficulties. Fingers crossed for you for puppies.

> When my girl had an outside tie, they were properly tied,

?????  sounds like a half way house between  true tie and not, as you say as there was a physical impediment he could only get in so far, but obviously far enough to be hold, but not do far that you couldn't see part of the gland.

Yes, Barbara that is right. When I say  "properly tied", I appreciate it wasn't normal that you could still see a fair bit of his manhood but I just meant they were actually locked together. Was a bit odd really I guess ! But then in hindsight, we know why.

thank you barbara. so i doesnt matter if the enlarged gland is outside the bitch as long as you can hold him in place with his penis inside the bitch?

Well a tie is better and it does seem that if you get slip matings that it sometimes means the bitch isn't quite ready, and you get a tie in a day or two.

I certainly would want a repeat mating every two days for as long as the bitch were willing, until I got a tie, and if I didn't then I'd keep my fingers crossed that I got pups.

thank you

Yes, we tried for a 3rd mating 2 days after again, but didn't even achieve a slip mating that time, my girl just kept sagging at the knees every time we tried to get the poor dog aimed properly (she's a bit 'up and over'). So now we will just have to wait...

Hi Frenchy,
my males first stud experience he had 2 outside ties and managed to produce 10 pups on a maiden bitch..... All that happened was he was too excited to quickly and tied before he was fully in, so I managed to hold him there (standing to the side of the bitch not back to back like a typical tie and not totally on top of her. I held him both times for about 10 mins or until his bulbus glandis (or whatever its called lol) started to go down. Then released them both, it gave me back ache I can tell you, but it was worth it.

wow, 10 that was good, thank you for replying

Yes, we tried for a 3rd mating 2 days after again, but didn't even achieve a slip mating that time,

Good luck Lucy. Are you sure she was properly ready at any time here? Just wondering because I've just had a bitch mated. Dog and bitch staying together so no need to travel a lot this time and the first mating (with tie, every time was a tie) was achieved as soon as they met. After that there was no interest at all, the stud dog owner joked they'd only been saying hello, and the big question was whether we'd missed the other days (this girl being early normally) or not reached the fertile period yet. Then after FOUR days we suddenly got another mating -and then a third and a fourth even following. So a bigger gap than I've known and I'm inclined to think the first mating won't have been a fertile one. Had I travelled to the stud dog rather than being able to leave the bitch with him I'd then not have bothered trying again when she was unreceptive two days after the first mating. (She was even snapping at him then, chasing him away.)

That is the danger - on the first Thursday we had her progesterone tested and she hadn't yet ovulated. On the Sunday and Tuesday we got the slips, and on the next Thursday we didn't even get that much. The vet did suggest another test but at £90 for our vet, I decided to keep my fingers crossed instead!

i recently had a similar thing with one of my girls. She was mated to my own male on a monday, tie but she was not comfortable throughout the tie. 48 hrs later tried a second mating and she was having none of it! So decided to leave it at that and fingers crossed. However on the Sunday 6 DAYS later she was screaming for him, so thought it was worth seeing what they did, they tied straight away her being comfortable this time. I was sure she hadnt been ready the first time after the way these two matings went and it appears i was right as she gave birth to 12!  3 days overdue from that last mating. I think my male was so quick he caught her unaware the first time. She knew when she was ready.

Just to update my earlier post - We had 7 lovely babies born last night from 2 slip matings with maiden bitch and unproven dog - Miracles do happen!!

Congratulations!

Hooray! Let's hope I'm lucky too!

A friend of mine, who owns a bitch that I bred, planned to mate her at her last season, a couple of months ago. However, she only managed a single brief slip mating. My friend decided not to try again, as she felt she must have left it a bit late, and that the bitch, who had not been bred from previously, had probably "gone over". She said she wouldn't even describe the mating as a "slip mating", as it was so brief...a matter of a few seconds. This bitch gave birth to a litter of 12 healthy pups last Wednesday! I have, myself, had a litter from a slip mating in the past....on that occasion, 6 pups.

Edited to add..Good Luck. I hope your bitch will be in whelp.

> Then released them both, it gave me back ache I can tell you, but it was worth it.

     

The things we do!!!!!

I have mated my bitch on her last two seasons, slip matings on all times, no puppies sadly

As long as the dog is held in until he goes down, then it should be fine.  After all, that is how bulldogs are usually mated.  I have a dog who as a youngster just couldn't get the idea of tying - he looked to be fully in the bitch, but then a few seconds later slipped out.  So I decided to hold him in the next time, and 8 puppies were born.  After that I held him every time until I realized he had discovered the knack and was now getting fully in on his own - bless! 

Vet couldn't feel anything at 25 days on Friday, she did say to try again in a week but according to TBOTB you wouldn't feel anything by then until they get really big. Oh well, I won't give up hope entirely as the vet could be wrong or Ellie could be hiding them under her ribcage or something, but it looks unlikely.

Unless she was mated early, and didn't "take" for a few days after the mating.
In which case she's not as far gone yet as you think. Just a thought.

Don't give up hope yet!
Fingers crossed!
Karen

I once took a bitch on day 25 and the vet couldnt feel anything and told me he was certain she hadnt took..............she had 9 very large puppies!!!!!

I also had a bitch come to be mated from my then unproven dog (his first mating). He was so eager all we managed was 2 very quick slip matings, she had 4 puppies.
Im waiting to see if one of my bitches has took. She only had 1 outside tie and when I took her back 48hrs later the dog wasnt interested.

Keep your fingers crossed........Good luck!!!!!