Hey all,

I posted on a thread a couple of weeks ago about my dogs intermittent Limp,which only happened after getting up from lying or sitting down,and sometimes on a long walk.
I took her to the vet Last Thursday and the vet diagnosed a torn? Cruciate Ligament.She confirmed this by putting her under and manipulating her rear leg,as she wouldn't allow the vet to do it whilst awake as obviously too painful.

The vet said that the chances of her having to have an op is 8/10.I was ready to book her in right there and then,but vet said to take the weekend to decide,as the op is very expensive.
Now,the weird thing is,she has not limped once since bringing her home,not even slightly Before Thursday i had to hep her get on the couch and bed,but now she jumping up and down fine. Could the vet have popped something back in while she was examining her? I just do not get it. I did ring the vet and she's at a loss to explain it.

Any theories?

I would definitely try cage rest for 4 weeks before subjecting her to such a major op with a long recovery period, which then puts strain on the other leg if she has a predisposition to cruciate weakness.

Or maybe the Vet was incorrect with her diagnosis and the problem was accidentally sorted with manipulation?

Either way if she was mine, I wouldn't rush into an operation or let her jump up/down on the couch or bed!

>a major op with a long recovery period,

I know,I think that part scares me more than the actual operation.I don't know how i would be able to keep her still for 6 weeks!

>or let her jump up/down on the couch or bed!

Easier said than done I do help her up and down,but there are times when she gets there before me.It's more of a step up and down rather than a jump.But i get what you mean.

I would be curious to hear from other owners who's dog has had this,and if the symptoms are similar and/or if the op worked,as I've heard it's not always 100% successful.

or let her jump up/down on the couch or bed!

Easier said than done

You will need to not let her jump or do any steps or stairs at all for 6 weeks after the operation if it's going to succeed, so I'd rather do it now to try and avoid the op.  

Cruciate ops that fail (if they've been done by a specialist rather than a GP Vet) tend to be actually the owners failing to restrict the dog during the healing/convalescent period.

Eden - my Boxer bitch had a partial tear to a cruciate ligament, the Vet thought possibly more than 50% of the ligament was torn, when she was 6 years old. 
A scan indicated approx 60% tear.  I was given the choice - to operate or not.  I chose to go for not operating and seeing how we got on because the op is so extreme (imo).  Obviously this meant really curtailing her activities - not easy with a Boxer and even more difficult as her Boxer brother was also a very lively and playful dog.  Anyway, for 4 weeks they were controlled so that there was NO play time when they were together - they were only allowed to lie down and cuddle up to each other.  At walk times my dog was allowed out only on his own and he could play as much as he liked, then my bitch was taken out on lead (even in the garden) on her own and calm, gentle walking was enforced.  I removed the sofas from my lounge and I sat on cushions on the floor, I removed the base of my bed and slept on the mattress on the floor!!!  (No stairs to worry about as I live in a bungalow).  I work full time, and don't have a partner, so my dog walker was given the same routine to follow, and she did, faithfully.  There was significant healing identified at the 4 week scan, so we continued the regime for another 4 weeks, and the next scan showed great healing and thus the op was avoided.  However obviously she has since been permanently at risk of damaging the ligament again so I enforced a complete ban on throwing toys of any sort - balls can ONLY be rolled on the floor and if one of the dogs throws one into the air they were immediately told No! Leave it!  and fortunately they did.  My Bitch will be 12 years old in a few months and although occasionally she shows a little stiffness in the limb she has never had a real problem with it.  When she is stiff her exercise is cut accordingly.

Since all this my Dog has passed away, and we have welcomed a new puppy into the household, (this mainly for the benefit of my Bitch who went into an incredible period of mourning and totally lost the will to live after the older dogs death) and he is now almost 10 months old.  All the same rules apply when the dogs are together, and when the puppy is playing without her many of the rules still apply as I don't want to risk him suffering such a problem.

So, my advice would be that if the Vet thinks there is a possibility of it healing alone then go for it, but you WILL need to be very strict, and at times it will break your heart to stop your dog from playing, but your heart will mend, and your dog could mend too without having to undergo such drastic action as a major op.

To add to my post above - we now (all 3 of us) enjoy romps in the woods and trips to the beach (all the way from the midlands!!) each weekend, with the pup having all the fun a pup should have, and my elderly girl doing as much or as little as she feels she wants to do, unless she gets a little too excited, in which case I ask her to calm down, and she does!!!!

Hi my dog tore her cruciate ligament too we didnt have a choice as she only had one back leg, so we went to liverpool uni vet hospital where she had it done with keyhole surgery less invasive and big plus made it weight bearing the same day which was needed, recovery was swift and she went on to romp on the beach and swim in the sea daily for another 7 years without any further problems (labrador).

Is the vet an othoepeadic specialist?????
Reason I ask is that my vets xrayed Ebba thinking it was cruciate ligament, then refered her to an Ortho specialist vet who did more thorough xrays and it turned out she has Hip displacia!!!! she limps intermitantly and is now on Glucosamine and Rimadyl
Are you insured????
Lea

My dog snapped his left cruciate and had it repaired last May.  No problems until he developed a limp recently and we were referred to a specialist.  Whilst waiting for the appointment he has snapped the right one and we are having that operated on in a few weeks.  It looks as though the limp in the left leg could be down to some residual infection left so 4 weeks of antibiotics to start soon then he can have his right leg fixed!  Complicated I know!  Rest has made no difference to him therefore we have decided to have the op, the vet said that smaller dogs tend to manage well with the strict rest period.

The main part of the op for the owner is the strict recovery period but I honestly didn't find it that difficult and George seemed okay with it as well.  Oh plus the cost as I doubt my insurers will pay for the right leg doing so that's approx £2000 to find - eek!

My large crossbreed (50kg) tore his cruciate aged 2 and a half.  It had stretched and partially torn some time before this (arthritis had already set in) but he showed no evidence of it until it worsened when he suddenly couldn't bear weight on the leg.  Our regular vet happens to be an orthopaedic specialist and he recommended surgery which we agreed to.  Dog spent around a week in the vets on kennel rest (vet knows our home  circumstances - if we hadn't had a boisterous young giant breed at the time and/or we routinely used crates, he could have come home earlier) and then was allowed short, gentle lead walks from the day he came home; gradually increasing as the leg healed.  We installed safety gates on the living room and at the bottom of the stairs so he could be comfined to one room, and made sure he had a very comfy bed in a draught-free area on the floor so he wasn't tempted to hop up on the sofas. 

Ten months later, we repeated the process when the other cruciate ruptured.  He recovered much more quickly second time around.  That op was done 2 years ago (almost to the day) and he is fine despite now having fairly severe arthritis in both knees.  He needs no pain meds, just has daily joint supplements and exercises normally with as much free running as he wants and regular swimming.

>The main part of the op for the owner is the strict recovery period but I honestly didn't find it that difficult and George seemed okay with it as well.  Oh plus the cost as I doubt my insurers will pay for the right leg doing so that's approx £2000 to find - eek

Who is your insurer?  We are with M&S who paid out for both cruciate ops with no question.  They continue to pay for any follow up checks (he has about 2 a year) and his joint supplements.  We have had no problem at all with claiming, thank goodness

Tescos - £4k per condition and I reckon they will link the two together and say he has 'cruciate disease'.  It was the best policy at the time, except Petplan which was way out of my budget at around £40 a month when I first got him.  They appear to have dropped their premiums now but that is no good to me
Tescos have been great paying out quickly for everything, no problems with that.  I see more insurers are now offering 'x amount of vets fees per year', rather than so much per condition. 

My dog improved after swiming each week

One of my springers ruptured her cruciate, we were advised rest which seemed to help, a few months later she started limping again, she had the traditional cruciate repair stabilising the joint, 2 years on she's as active as the other two springers and never shows signs or lameness or pain.

We've also just had a foster dog go through the same procedure, he's now running around with no problems and his temperament has changed for the better, form a grumpy old man to a proper springer, full of the joys of life.

Would I do anything different, if it happened again, yes, no rest, get the op done, in the period between diagnosis and procedure was a bout 6 months, in that time a large amount of arthritic bone was laid down around the joint, this will cause problems in the future, if done straight away, this would have largely been avoided. total cost was less then £400.00, for the rescue, £345.00, simpler op apparently for him.

Robert

my bitch had a stainless steel plate put in after her cruciate ligament got torn.  she now does all the others do plus she goes out picking up and you would never know that she has had it done.  What I will say is that the recovery is as important as the op.  I decided that we were doing as we were told.  I borrowed a ginormous crate from a friend. the only time she was out at the start was to pee, on the lead. I would go in the crate to keep her company and one of the other girls would go in an lay beside her, they seemed to know she was not up to playing.  it paid of.

>Is the vet an othoepeadic specialist

No.She does however bring in an orthopedic specialist to do the op. No,we are not insured,she quoted  £1500 for the operation.
There were no scans or x-rays done,vet diagnosed it by physical manipulation while she was under.

Nothing has changed since i last posted,she has still not limped once,nor shown any signs of anything ever being wrong.
She went from limping obviously an hour before seeing the vet and while in the exam room,to not limping at all ONCE. The whole thing has got me wondering if her diagnoses was correct,or does this vet just have magic hands and clicked something back? The nurse said she should have been sorer afterward as they really pulled and tugged at her leg.
I've rung up a few times,but have been unable to speak with vet,will try again on Monday and demand to speak with her.

>One of my springers ruptured her cruciate, we were advised rest which seemed to help, a few months later she >started limping again,

This has got me worried.I don't want to get my hopes up that everything is ok.

Thank-you all for your helpful replies

I would make sure they are 100% sure of the diagnosis before having any surgery. My collie had very similar symptons and my vet was ready to go in and do a cruciate repair, luckily there was a slight doubt in his mind so sent us off to an orthopedic specialist. After x rays it turned out the fabella, a small bone behind the knee, had been displaced and was no rubbing on her muscle.

I'm not saying that this is whats wrong with your dog but ust make sure that the vet is sure it is the cruciate before going in.