Hello
Some of you may remember me from years ago
Well I have just had my first litter for years and sadly have a puppy with a severe cleft palate affecting both the hard and sof palate
She is 3 days now and I have been tube feeding as obviously she is unable to nurse. She is such a little fighter I really want to give her a chance even though the vet did recommend putting to sleep.
I have never bred a dog with cleft palate before so am asking advice from any of you that have had any experience of rearing a puppy with a cleft. The vet has agreed if I can get her to a healthy 4 weeks old she will do the best surgically for her, though there will be a risk with surgery.... is that the way to go or has anyone had experience of the advantages/disadvantages??
The other 3 puppies are fine and feeding off mom every 2 hours as mom is not doing a very good job and is very clumsy so I am doing it for her!!! The little girl with the cleft is slightly smaller but not significantly.
Any advice, experience or opinions greatly received.
Oh and glad to be back and hi to any of you that remember me - mainly for fading puppy syndrome
Anne-Marie

Sorry posted this in Health section - should be here

Poor puppy, I would have let her go as soon as it was discovered. I'm sure you love your dogs and think you're doing the best possible for this pup, but this pup would know nothing if it was put to sleep as opposed to a painful op and recovery ina  few weeks

I'd have let her go as soon as it was discovered, rather than go through the uncomfortable procedure of tube feeding only to face painful surgery with an uncertain outcome. But we all show our love in different ways.

I check all my puppies and kittens at birth for cleft palate, it's the first thing I do once they have started breathing, and if there are any, they are let go at once. I don't agree with rearing them for a variety of reasons -one of which is the possibility of the affected animal being used for breeding in the future and passing it on, as it can be genetic.

i would have to agree with tigger and jeangenie etc. I understand you feel you are doing the best for this poor puppy, but really kindest thing to do is pts. I check my puppies as soon as they are born and if they have this condition i let them go. we had one puppy that had this and was breathing but very heavily, he could not feed and could not keep his food down, we rushed him to our vets and he was pts at only a couple of hours old, we found this heart breaking, i cried and missed him, but my vet had told me the procedue and surgery the puppy would have had to have to try and correct his condition and advised us to let him go, as puppy was in distress and was suffering and it was not a guarantee that puppy would survive up to and after the surgery. Our vets actually praised us for noticing this condition so soon, as he told us that he has had owners bring in puppies aged around 4 weeks old before and they had been suffering all that time . I know it is heart breaking, but let him go x x x

I agree with the others, this pup even if it survives the op etc will have a compromised quality of life, be more prone to respiratory infections etc.

pts. no doubts.

Thank you all for your comments and do understand what you are saying.
This litter was born on Tuesday evening by c-section and the vet had not checked for cleft palates, which I assumed would have been done. She was "appearing" to be sucking and to be honest for the first couple of feeds it did go un-noticed as she did stay on the teat and I, incorrectly, assumed the vet would have checked
If the vet had told me then I would have agreed her be pts there and then.
As soon as I noticed the suction not great I did check myself and was totally gutted.
There is no way this pup, if it does  survive, would be sold. re-homed or bred from as she is so special to me - I know that sounds sad. She has such a will about her and is thriving even though tube fed.
I do check pups for cleft palates when I whelp a bitch and would do exactly as you say put to one side then take straight to vets for euthinasia, but I have luckily not experienced one before. This one though I have had and seen her try to survive - this is all so sad
I am going to have to really think about this one

A few years ago I had a pup born with a cleft palate & split nasal cleft. After the vet had put him to sleep we noticed he had no ear flaps either.
I think you will be letting yourself in for a lot of heartache if you try to rear this one. Best to concentrate on the healthy pups & mum.

people often say things like 'he's such a fighter' and 'he really wants to live' but it's simply nature that makes animals eat and thrive no matter what pain or discomfort they may be in.

I am pretty confident she is in no pain, she wakes when hungry and sleeps when full and contented, she settles fine with no screaming or writhing about.
If I thought she were in pain there is no way I would put her through this, I know there will be pain after an operation but that would be short term and give her a life.
I do know when a puppy is in pain as have witnessed fading puppy, this puppy is content though
I have looked on the internet and there are many success stories on there so who am I to not give her the best chance.
Think this dilema is a real heart and head issue - my heart is for trying and my head is split at moment.

hi staffie, is the puppy breathing normally, like the other puppies? Is she able to lay on her tummy to feed and to crawl around like the others? I only ask as the puppy i mentioned in my previous post had heavy, chesty breathing and found it hard to move around like the other healthy puppies, he would keep rolling to one side, he did feed but it would come out his nose, he had both soft and hard cleft palet. .and i have never regretted having him pts, even though i was heartbroken and sad

Can I put a little for the keeping alive POV?  2 years ago Mabel's last litter was born at the vets, and we noticed at once that one dog puppy had a cleft (smallish, so not identical to this case)  Mabel was speyed following C section, and was much too ill to feed pups, so as I was going to hand rear the litter decided to give this pup a go too.  Bottle (not tube) fed all 3, and apart from milk coming down nose sometimes when he fed too strongly he kept going.  He was about half the size of his littermates, and gained weight very slowly.  Peopel may remember my posts about him here, as he was the pup who simply refused to wean, loved his bottle feeds so much he was still sucking away at 12 weeks old!  At 6 months he was a lovely if smaller than usual pug, and  at just over 7 months won his first class at his first show, shown by nephew showing for first itme too!
He is now an average size for a male pug, very muscular, fabulous mover, still spoilt rotten of course from being such a special little boy.  Has had a go at agility, showing lots of promise, and will be taking this up after Crufts this year, when he retires from showing.  HE was examined by the vet at 7 weeks and it appeared the cleft had fixed itself, but it actually has not, I think, as when he has goats milk or yoghurt, or his favourite food of strawberries and cream, we get a little back through the nose.

Jsut a few weeks after Pipsqueak was born one of the vet nurses at the practice had a litter with one pups with a cleft (much bigger breed than mine)  After the success with pipsqueak they decided to see if they coudl rear him, and did.  HE was operated on at 7 or 8 weeks to fix it, and has grown into a lovely dog.

I do understand the whole survival of the fittest/don't tamper with nature thing, and of course Pipsqueak will never be used at stud, but I don't regret a minute of the time spent rearing him.

Hi Gemini
Yes she was able to crawl around and breathe normally. No food came from her nose as I was tube feeding her. She would sleep on her tummy too.
Sadly though at the last feed  whilst tubing her she was distressed so I stopped the feed and toileted her. When I put her back down in her bed she started gasping - first time she had done this - and also there was a clear mucus from her nose. I suspect it was early symptoms of pneumonia.
We took her straigt to the vets who confirmed this was probably the case and we have had her put to sleep as I did not - as I said earlier - want her to suffer.
I was willing to persevere with the tubing so long as she was comfortable and well in herself but to see her gasping and knowing how horrid pneumonia can be I made the heart breaking decision to stop any further suffering.
Guess things happen for a reason - ironic this happened after posting and saying how well she was doing

RIP Titch xxxxxxxxx

Hi Gwen
That is so good to hear and am so sorry to say that this evening "Titch" had taken a turn for the worse Pneumonia had started and to save any further suffering I had her pts. Had she had stayed well I would have persevered with this as really wanted to give her every chance.
Her hard and soft palate was affected so was pretty severe but still would have tried.
We are so upset but in this case we did all we could We dont regret a minute of trying to save her because she tried so hard herself. xxxx

Sorry you've lost Titch. It is probably for the best but at least you know you did your best for her.
Good luck with the others.

so sorry, rip little TITCH, thinking of you at this heart breaking time x x hugs x x

Thanks xxx

Thanks xxx

Firstly I am sorry that the wee mite has got a c/p. I had a puppy born with this a few years ago.  Star as I called her was the last to be born and smaller than the others, I could not believe what a fighter she was crawling to the milk bar, I cried and cried, but sadly I knew what had to be done.  We got her pts and brought her homem buried her and I then registered her with the kc, just like her brothers and sisters, I had a name already for her and felt it was the leeast I could do..It helped me cope.

I know exactly how you felt as we are feeling it now. I tried to give her a chance but it was not to be xx

So sorry to read this. Run free little Titch xx