Have just been looking at the results for Belfast and thought Fosse Data must have credited all breeds with CCs by mistake. Scotties had 3 dogs turn up, two being bitches, so the RDCC could not be awarded.Why has this show been given CCs for the breed when the KC has turned down to breeds for CC status in 2011 which are quite capable of pulling in decent entries

No they haven't credited all breeds with CC's by mistake. I agree the entries are shocking for some of the breeds who are being awarded CC's - I know Sibes only have 19 dogs entered and it is a CC show for them

This is the first time since I have been in dogs that Belfast have CC's it clashed with our Breed club Open show, and the entry was 10 exhibits, with 3 absent.

There was one UK exhibit, two Scottish and the rest Irish.

19 dogs and they got CCs??? I think our breed should get 10 CCs at each show then, we usually have over 200 dogs present! I knew I was in the wrong breed!

Scotties had only 3 dogs for 2 CCs and 2 Res CCs!!!
Glen of Imaals had 7 dogs for 2 CCs and 2 Res CCs.

I don't think I would regard that as a 'proper' CC if I won it!

Does anyone know then if Belfast has become a Representative show with CC's fr all breed that have them.

I can see the argument that the Northern Irish are a bit disenfranchised with just one Champ show, so they would have to travel over the water at extortionate cost.

It also allows Southern Irish exhibitors to qualify for Crufts and encourage them to show in UK.

The dog that I bred who was BOB is an Irish Champion, and had a RCC over here on one of only a few times shown in UK, the bitch was winning her third CC, and is also an Irish champion.

I do think that UK exhibitors and judges are going to need to be more used to the idea of withholding awards if the quality is really not there, but otherwise lack of quantity does not equal lack of quality.

No, because my breed has CC status, has had since 1981, and we don't even have breed classes at Belfast.    We always joke that if you have a really bad dog & want to qualify it for Crufts, take it to Belfast.  I don't think Irish Red & Whites had a fantastic entry either & they are an Irish native breed!

Perhaps I'll take Ellie to Belfast next year then! She does well at open shows but never gets anything at champ shows.

Does anyone know then if Belfast has become a Representative show with CC's fr all breed that have them.

Malinois got CCs in 2006. In 2006 we had a single CC at Darlington. Darlington always USED to have a good breed entry for us. For 2007, that single ticket had been moved to Belfast. There had never been any breed classes at Belfast ever before, and indeed there was only ONE show bred Malinois in existence in all of Northern Ireland. (Hence anyone else would have to travel!) In 2007 there were 5 entries. In 2008 just 3. For this year they gave the single ticket to Bath instead.

I do think that UK exhibitors and judges are going to need to be more used to the idea of withholding awards if the quality is really not there, but otherwise lack of quantity does not equal lack of quality.

Exactly. It's rather hurtful of those that suggested that a CC a Belfast won't be regarded as a "proper" CC. The judge does have the power to withhold, and the proof will be in the pudding so to speak. In 2008 all Malinois 3 entries were either owned or bred by myself. One of my bitches got the CC and it was her first and also MY first. It was a very strange sensation because I WANTED to be overjoyed, but how could I when I had only competed against myself and one puppy buyer? Talk about anti climax! And what a shame to have to feel that a CC isn't worth celebrating! After all, it wasn't MY fault that nobody else bothered to enter. It wasn't cheating. The judge was a breed specialist who would have attracted a good entry on the mainland. I spoke to so many people in the breed and everyone said that this judge would never have awarded the CC had he not felt it was deserved, which made me feel a bit better. Then this year this bitch of mine won a second CC (with BOB) and that's what I mean about the proof being in the pudding -it wasn't a one off.

So yes, I think it's often utter madness to give tickets to Belfast for rarer breeds and in my breed it didn't last long, but let's not knock the winners and spoil their enjoyment!

> It was a very strange sensation because I WANTED to be overjoyed, but how could I when I had only competed against myself and one puppy buyer? Talk about anti climax! And what a shame to have to feel that a CC isn't worth celebrating! After all, it wasn't MY fault that nobody else bothered to enter.

That's exactly what I meant Surely knowing that you haven't had any real opposition must spoil the sense of achievement?

imo why should you not celebrate winning your CC, afterall if your dog/bitch wasnt worthy then the judge could have witheld.
and you did enter and turn up.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
congats btw.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Surely knowing that you haven't had any real opposition must spoil the sense of achievement?

Exactly, but it's still a ticket and we have no way of knowing in advance how many will enter. Brainless is right, UK judges do need to get used to withholding a lot more, then any award is one you are guaranteed to have deserved. In cats it is EXTREMELY common for judges to withhold. I showed cats at the weekend and one of mine won a PC (Premier Certificate, same thing as CC but for neutered cats). He was on his own in his breed class BUT I checked the other results for the same judge and she had withheld certificates on several breeds and indeed in one kitten class had placed the single entry as second out of one, which then instantly told me that any cat she DID award the cert to she really thought was 100 % deserving of it. In situations like that nobody need to feel less worthy.

Yes I agree with you - although in my very limited experience of dog showing, it seems that in this country if a judge DOES withold a CC he or she is criticized - not praised.

> Surely knowing that you haven't had any real opposition must spoil the sense of achievement?
>
> Exactly, but it's still a ticket and we have no way of knowing in advance how many will enter. Brainless is right, UK judges do need to get used to withholding a lot more, then any award is one you are guaranteed to have deserved. In cats it is EXTREMELY common for judges to withhold. I showed cats at the weekend and one of mine won a PC (Premier Certificate, same thing as CC but for neutered cats). He was on his own in his breed class BUT I checked the other results for the same judge and she had withheld certificates on several breeds and indeed in one kitten class had placed the single entry as second out of one, which then instantly told me that any cat she DID award the cert to she really thought was 100 % deserving of it. In situations like that nobody need to feel less worthy

It is the same for critiques as well.  In the dog world, all people want to read is glowing critiques and the judges that may criticise a breed in their preamble are not looked upon favourably by anyone except those who win the green cards.   Cat critiques you have to be far more thick skinned about!

Some info here from the KC on Belfast CC allocation. (Apologies if anyone has posted it already, can't see it.)

M.

I object more to the very easy stud book numbers gained in Sibes this year, as I do agree that the CC can be witheld if necessary, however we have 1st to 3rd in Open and 1st in limit, so 8 stud book numbers from an entry of 19.......

We had 14 entries for my breed, 1st in Limit dog was withheld.. Unless Fosse have got that wrong, as i know many results have been incomplete and incorrect on these websites.