please can any let me know if only dog present and then goes bib does that give that dog a jw point
if so i find it ridiculous

No there have to be three of the breed present.

Quote:
3 One point for the award of Best of Breed at an Open Show. Only to be claimed if no Junior Warrant Points were gained by that dog by winning a Breed Class or Classes.

4 Junior Warrant points cannot be claimed from classes or for awards with less than three dogs of the breed present. In assessing the number of dogs present in each class, exhibitors may count a dog as having been present in a class provided it was entered in that class and was present in its first class for the breed at that Show.

well if the dog is the only dog present their not going to gain a point by winning their class but can gain one by being bob cause their the only dog there
am i getting that right? if so well LOL

> well if the dog is the only dog present their not going to gain a point by winning their class but can gain one by being bob cause their the only dog there
> am i getting that right?

NO... If it was the only dog present, then it cannot claim the JW point from BOB

ie:  If there were 3 classes.. with only one dog present in each class.. Then.. it could claim the JW point..

There MUST be 3 of the breed present.. not neccessarily in the same class..

IF there is 3 in the same class, then the JW point can be claimed for that class..

A JW can only be claimed from BOB if the dog was unable to claim from the class win..

IN either case.. there must be 3 of the breed present..

Hope that helps..

No it clearly states you cannot win for an award (BOB) or class with less than 3 of the breed present

Yes it can be claimed.

I have spoken to the KC about this & they agreed that yes indeed it could be claimed.

The 3 dog rule does not apply to the number of dogs present in the breed, therefore BOB does count as a JW point.

It is correct that a JW point for a class win can only be claimed if there are at least 3 dogs present on the class, however if there are less than 3 dogs present & the winner is declared BOB then the point can be claimed for the BOB.

When did the rule change..?

I was dissallowed a JW point for a BOB when there were only two dogs present

I spoke to the KC about 2 months ago regarding this.

The JW claim form states in point 3 that one point is awarded for BoB at an Open Show if no points can be claimed from winning a breed class or classes. Point 4 clarifies that JW points cannot be claimed from classes or awards (ie BoB being an award) where there were less than three dogs of the breed present.

The wording makes it clear that if there are less than three dogs of the breed present at the show then no JW points can be claimed.

Not according to the awards dept at the KC!!

I questioned this exact point with them & they catagorically stated that the point COULD be claimed for BOB.

well if thats is so it just makes a mockery of the whole thing

I have to say i've been looking into this myself as i was the only one in my breed on sat and was given BOB, but the judge didn't have to if he didn't feel my pup to be worthy of it did he??

I was confused and still not got it clarified, i initially read it that you had to have 3 dogs present in the breed classes, but was unsure if they meant for BOB as well. I think this will mean a call to the KC myself to clarify, i know you've did it 2 months ago Pam but just need to be sure if i'm going to start building up the points.

There are questions and answers here http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/610 and it says:
*You can claim one point for the Best of Breed award, but only if you were not able to claim a point for a 1st prize in a breed class and only where there are three or more dogs present in the breed

So does that mean i don't get a point for BOB Brainless in view that there were no other dogs present in my breed on that day?

Kay you are correct, PamW that is incorrect.  They must be 3 dogs present on the day.

Well put it this way even at a champshow if you win your class with 2 in it you get NO points even if you get the CC. You would have then to get BOB and only of course if there were at least 3 present at the show.

here are questions and answers here http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/610 and it says:
*You can claim one point for the Best of Breed award, but only if you were not able to claim a point for a 1st prize in a breed class and only where there are three or more dogs present in the breed

100%

So does that mean i don't get a point for BOB Brainless in view that there were no other dogs present in my breed on that day?

You get no points Sue, you must beat 2 dogs of your breed regardless if it is open or champshow.

You know, not that I begrudge people getting points BUT I do hope the awards department do actually check all the wins properly. 

Thanks for that guys. I wasn't sure as it was a little confusing. As it stands i've got no points at this stage.. Wasn't sure if i wanted to chase them, but as it stands due to my health i can't to half of the shows that i wanted this year, so going to give the JW points chasing a miss.

They dont !!!!

Hang on, so you mean they don't check up on the points when the entry is sent off? So anyone could just make out they should be awarded a JW to their dog then? Thats a bit wrong. Surely they should be doing some if not all checks on applications for it.. What is the point in cheating, i'm guessing some people may do it.

Not sure if they check all but found out the check some as my freinds was queries she had the wrong show down by mistake and it was duly corrected. 

I would imagine they could easily check most of them now just only with show results.

all shows have to submit marked catalogues with details of absentees, so they may not check each one, but certainly are likely to spot check.

Think so also Barbara.  Mind you most breeds will have their fellow breed police who I am sure check everything and notice any errors made by their fellow exhibitors LOL 

suejaw
no you dont get a point if you were the only dog in your breed there

I think people get confused about the ShCM and the JW with regards the single point BOB if on their own which of course only applies to the ShCM..

I know it says no points are awarded for AV or AVNSC but would you get a point for a win in a stakes class at a champ show? Im guessing not?

No , You can only claim points for 'Stakes' classes at a Single Breed show provided the relevant number of dogs are present

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?d=23&f=0&h=pnhpr&id=610

Junior Warrant

    * You must have 25 points in total.  3 points are awarded from each championship show win and 1 point is awarded for every Open Show win.
    * You can only claim points if you are placed 1st in a Breed Class, such as Puppy, Graduate, Limit, Open etc.  Please note that Best Puppy, Any Variety and Any Variety Not Separately Classified classes do not count.
    * The dog must be between 6 and 18 months of age when claiming points.
    * A minimum of 3 points must be from Championship Shows
    * A minimum of 3 points must be from Open Shows
    * JW points cannot be claimed if there are less then 3 dogs present in the class.
    * You can claim one point for the Best of Breed award, but only if you were not able to claim a point for a 1st prize in a breed class and only where there are three or more dogs present in the breed
    * You can claim points for 'Special' Breed Classes i.e. Special Beginners, Special Yearling provided these classes are listed under the breed classification and the relevant number of dogs are present
    * You can claim points for 'Stakes' classes at a Single Breed show provided the relevant number of dogs are present

HEY

HEY

hey, didnt know about special stakes classes etc in single breed classes
is that new?

to be honest they are still breed classes, I think it is mentioned for clarification..

> Mind you most breeds will have their fellow breed police who I am sure check everything and notice any errors made by their fellow exhibitors LOL

So right Blue.
When Crufts qualification first came in I asked how they would be able to check every dog was rightly there......." oh we dont need to - other exibitors in the breed will do it for us". Computerisation has now at least given them some help with out the 'snitches'.

That is so funny, If your PC it is called 'Self Regulation' LOL

Well I have got the points for Inka's Junior Warrant 6 days after winning her champion title, not bad for 14 months.

What is lovely is that her mother and grandmother are also champions so three in a row.

Oh, Well Done on the JW. Its nice to relax now. What will you chase now?......your breed record for CC's maybe?
Paula

> What is lovely is that her mother and grandmother are also champions so three in a row

That's lovely Barbara...very well done.

> What will you chase now?......your breed record for CC's maybe?
>

That was taken yesterday at SWKA, 45 CC's.  The previous record holder was born in 1980. 

The new record Holder is only just 6 1/2 so has at least another 3 years of CC winning ahead of him (if he can find judges that haven't given him one).

Nope for me it will be breeding another as good from her, and in the meantime to perhaps get another Group place.  A breed club BIS, and Open BIS are all things we have never achieved.

That is a lovely achievement Barbara. Hopefully a club show win this year or next year whenever it is maybe !!  Your youngester has certainly made her mark..

Well our breed has a long show life well into veteran so plenty of time.

I'm sure you will achieve them all, she has done fab already and she is still a baby!!
Our breed record for CC's has just been beaten at Driffield by a 5yr old bitch who has now been retired. As newbies we had never stayed to watch a BIS at a champ show and it just happens that we stayed and watched her win BOB, then get utility group1, and then BIS. It was so emotional for her owner to finish her on a high note and something special to watch.
This dog showing is like a roller coaster.
paula

I go back and forth on what I think about these record breakers not sure if gpod for the needs or not when they get so high ie 25 cc a and above. Sometimes think they are a waste and sometimes not.

> Our breed record for CC's has just been beaten at Driffield

I was there too sat on the opposite side to all the Dal folk by the speaker.

We had been to York for the day and I had and asked hubby to drop me at the show for the final, sent other half back to hotel with Inka.

Our breed record was broken at SWKA by a 6 year old male winning his 45th CC (I expect he will go for the 50), it had been held by a bitch born in 1980 for over 20 years.

I can't see anyone with a bitch trying for the bitch record with only 19CC's a year these days.

On the one hand I would hate to see a champions class, as there is much more satisfaction beating the champions to gain the title,a and also it would be too easy an option for a weak judge to simply pick a champion for best of sex if they already know who they are.

It is a dilema when you ahve a big winner, as it is great to see an outstanding animal be rewarded, but it does effect the entry in the breed for thsoe who give up trying to pit theirs against them.

How does the Cat Grand championship system work???

( Now some of the other cat people can help)  that once they have their Champion title from 3 x CCs or 3 x PCCs ( in the case of neuters) they can enter Grand classes for Champions only and start chasing for the 3 x Grand Champion/Premier  they would not normally ( although the can) enter the normal open class but be listed for BOB only so that the CC/PCC is not taken by them the champion.  There is a seperate class for  Grands.

After winning the Grand Champion title they can then go onto Imperial Grand Champiopns and there are classes for Grand Champions only.

So basically yes they have champion classes.

At most shows I have been to those with the CH have only been enter for BOB only and are either in the Grand or Imperial classes.

http://gccfcats.org/certs.html

Well as we were supposed to be having puppies (she missed) I sent Inka to the Scottish Breed club championship show with a Friend.

I understand the entry was good as it was a US breed specialist who hasn't judged us here for years.

Because of chasing JW points (made it at SWKA) I had entered all available classes ans she won 3 out of 4, Junior Yearling and Limit, and got the points in each class,s o an extra 9, she was also 4th in Open.

She is at an Open show tomorrow.

She has one more Open show after that and three championship shows before she is out of Junior.  Be interesting now that I don't need them to see how many points she ends up with.

Sorry she missed was perfect timing for the winter to Barbara.

Well done on the points.. you can tell us the finally tally, I had 4 points spare.. not a lot but better than none

That was one mistake I made as people rarely ever put dogs in a second class at champshows or open shows in our breed so I didn't but then when we got nearer then time I realised I didn't have much shows left ..gulp..  

It is a funny thing when people say " oh I don't bother chasing JWs"   LOL    I think you know when it is worth going for ie chasing the extra open show ones but not generally till you have a good whack of the champshows to at least make it worth while.

Well that is another chapter over for a while.

I am having a right depleted feeling just now about dog showing. I hope it passes over my OH hopes it won't

> I am having a right depleted feeling just now about dog showing. I hope it passes over my OH hopes it won't

I can relate to that.

This year has been a real high with Inka, but at only 14 months it seems as if it is all over

Am pleased though that I only have two shows left this eyar after Midland Counties, it's ben quite tiring, I don't know how some people show every weekend.

Midland Counties is my last ..  Stafford is not a bad show ground for me. ( others will laugh at this statement) but it is about 5 to 5.5 hours drive so not too bad as some      I will be glad when it is over this year, been painting all weekend to freshen up some of the rooms in the house.

Showing every weekend is a nightmare for my breed with the coats.

Looking forward to a couple month break.  

Just found out that in fact theere were only enough in Junior for points, so an extra 3 points won. 

You are correct Blue but then to get the highest award u need to achieve 5 imperial certificates under different judges
there is also a UK Grand certificate which can only be awarded at the GCCF's "Supreme show" held in Nov at the NEC If a exhibit gets 2 of these certs then they can also get the title of UKGRCH

I actually think this system is a great idea, for instance my cat i have just made up to Ch now if i still wanted to show him i could enter him in the BOB only class (which is for CH's only) and i wouldnt get another CC from this class but would compete against the CC winners for the BOB award, some ppl do still take CH's into there open class and get more CC's but cant see the point u are only stopping others and actually cat judges will withold VERY easily and they dont always award the CC or BOB or even a 1st place....
still think that a CH class in dogs is a good idea where the winner can still compete for the BOB but not the CC .....
vicki

The thing I don't like about a champions class is that you are not beating the best out there to get your own dog made up.

When I won my first CC I beat 11 champions in both sexes as I went RBIS at a breed show.  That is more satisfying than simply beating non title holders.

Also it is too easy to choose the BOB from the champions class.