Just a quick one, if i enter my dog into puppy and open at a champ show and he wins puppy, can i then just withdraw him from the open class or is that not allowed as i have differing opinions on whether it is allowed or not. and if so do i just not turn up or is there an official way of withdrawing?
Thanks.

Whywould you want to enter Puppy and Open? Surely a puppy would be way out of his depth amongst the big mature boys in Open?

NO you cannot withdraw from the open class, you cannot withdraw from breed classes, only stakes/varieties etc

We do enter puppy and open, we did at Richmond and we are again at South Wales. If only for experience.

Thankyou.

> We do enter puppy and open,

Unless it is a breed with orly two breed classes, or the puppy has won out of the other classes it is usual to enter the next available class that your qualified for.

Open is primarily full of dogs that can no longer go in any of the lower classes.

I put my very successful puppy of a numerically small breed initially in Puppy and Junior classes, then because there was not much competition and I was hoping for Junior Warrant points (there have to be 3 in the class to get them), into Post Graduate.

We are now in Junior and for the Junior Warrant points entering the next lowest class she qualifies for which is Limit (she has won out of Post Graduate).

At Open shows we are putting her in Open also, but won't at CC shows until we have to, as the oppostion will all be fully mature.. 

I'm with Brainless. Unless there aren't other classes, Open is best left to the top winners. Not all judges ask a dog's age, at least not in open, so by entering a puppy in open you will make the dog look bad as it will look so immature compared to the rest. Even at champ.shows with no tickets I'm only aware of very rare breeds that only have Puppy and Open classes, almost all have at the very least Post Grad, and Post Grad I wouldn't worry too much about putting a puppy into IF entries were low. I've only just started putting my bitch on two tickets in Open at champ.shows with tickets available, technically speaking she is still eligible for Limit but it's a question of picking your competition at this level.

>by entering a puppy in open you will make the dog look bad as it will look so immature compared to the rest.

Exactly. People will only remember that your puppy was beaten, but they won't remember why.

Maybe Open should be re:classified than as it is 'open to all'.

Can i ask how you have got on in the puppy and open classes at CH shows? I only ask as i think you have a working breed of dog which has numerically high numbers entered.
If i were to do 2 classes with a puppy i would do puppy and either junior, novice, graduate or PG, but even the latter i feel unless your pup looks very mature and/or is doing well in other classes may be well out of their depth.
Or how about adding in a stakes class unless trying to get JW points.

I would never do open with a puppy.  Must admit I only do puppy classes and maybe a stakes class.

Open to all is right, but that means champions etc, and most people would prefer not to pit their young stock against such competition until they are ready.

Of course puppies do sometimes get awarded CC's and beat the rest of the entry, but it is better to do this from the challenge rather than from the Open class.

I think what causes confusion in newcomers, which is why they will sometimes enter Open with stock that will be clearly out of it's depth is that it is Open to all.  they start reading the qualifications in the lower classes and think oh boy don't really understand this, and 'Open to all' is just so simple, they don't realise the implications.

Sorry to jump into this thread but I have a similar query.

I entered my boy into a Premier Open Show and went a bit mad with classes (got a bit of OCD I think lol) anyway he was entered into AVNSC Pastoral Novice (only had novice and open classes) AV Pastoral Puppy (only had puppy, novice and open classes) and AV Rare Breed Graduate (only had Graduate and opens classes). The Rare breed classes were called before the NSC and AV classes and he won his class then went on to win Best Rare Breed Puppy and Best of Rare Breed, now I was told he could have challenged for BPIS but then told he had to go into his NSC class so he went in and got Reserve which then made him a beaten dog, we withdrew from the AV Puppy because he was hot and tired by that time.

Did I do this right or should I or could I have withdrawn him from all other classes to remain unbeaten? Bearing in mind he had no breed class but he had an NSC class (which as I understand you take as a breed class when there isn`t one for you)

I won`t be entering him in that many classes again! I think one or two is enough lol

Not separately Classified classes count as breed classes with the same rules applying.

It is just the variety classes proper that you can withdraw from, so yes you were quite right.

I had a similar situation at a championship show.

My Jozi gets very OTT, and is better after she has settled down, so a stakes class was perfect for this.

The champion stakes was on first long before our breed classes.  I didn't fancy my chances in breed with an out of coat bitch so took her in, and obviously didn't win, actually was unplaced.

In the breed she won Open, then got the bitch CC, and BOB, so we couldn't represent the breed in the Group.

I have also placed 4th in Open and then gone on to win Champion stakes of the day and then coming back on last day to win overall.

Personally I think stakes should be separate competitions and the beaten dog rule not apply, but that is because I love stakes classes

Thanks for clarifying that Barbara....
I`ve only ever entered Tangle into 1 Stakes class but didn`t go in because I was too chicken after seeing 30 odd dogs lining up for it lol (it was only our 2nd show lol) but I agree with you on having them as separate competitions.

Just as an after thought did I have to enter him in NSC even though there was a rare breed class?

Oh so much to learn lol.... He moves up to Junior at the end of this month so no doubt I will have to learn all over again lol

Yes you have to enter a breed or NSC class at shows run on the group system in order to go further.  Puppies can choose not to enter a breed class if there is no corresponding puppy class, but then it gets complicated as to whether they can compete for further awards depending on whether it is on the group system or not.

It is easier just to always enter a breed or NSC class.

As for 30 digs lining up you may find as I do it gives you the opportunity to relax so your dog does too, talk to and watch other exhibitors and see how some are shown differently to your won etc.

Also some how because it is apples and oranges no-one really minds where they come and you don't feel as up for scrutiny as you do in a breed class.

It is a good idea before making entries to carefully re-read the rules in the schedule.

Thanks again for clarification Barbara

Only having 5 shows a year with breed classes I am getting pretty good at entering NSC classes lol

Maybe next year I`ll have a try at Stakes when I`m a bit braver lol so far the biggest class we have been in is 6 and the smallest is 1 so as you can imagine when we saw 30 odd dogs waiting to go in the ring we/I got a little overwhelmed lol

As for re-reading the schedule I read it that many time I usually give myself a head ache, I`m an avid believer of reading things many times and if it is still like mud..... ask lol

again Thank you

suejaw

Can i ask how you have got on in the puppy and open classes at CH shows? I only ask as i think you have a working breed of dog which has numerically high numbers entered.

Yes, we got first in puppy and reserve in open.

Please excuse me if I'm wrong, but isn't your breed Neopolitan Mastiff and the puppy was first out of one and the open was fourth out of five at Richmond?

Boxers actually.

But you said Richmond and the only entries in Boxer Open Dog at Richmond were both Champions and none of them were entered in puppy. There weren't a Reserve in OD as there were only two, and in OB Reserve was also a Champion.
http://www.highampress.co.uk/richmond/boxers.asp?show=Richmond%202009&ttl=Richmond%202009%20-%20Boxer

Dianesdog never actually said which show's she won puppy & got reserve in open at as Suejaw only asked how she'd got on at Champ Shows, never said which ones.

Would be nice to know though, I'd never put a boxer pup in Open, I'd was scared to go into Limit last weekend with my 2 1/5 year old boy so Open would be a never for me ha ha
But it's true though a young'un would look out of place in open, a dog the same age as my boy was in Open the other week as he's an Ir.CH and he looked so immature compared to the other dog, yet stood alone he looks great!

Dianesdog said: We do enter puppy and open, we did at Richmond and we are again at South Wales but there was no puppy entered in Open at Richmond and no absentees from OD either.

Also just popped into my head, if you did win Puppy and then competed in Open and was beaten (as long as not beaten by another puppy) you'd still be able to challenge for Best Puppy.

"Can i ask how you have got on in the puppy and open classes at CH shows?"

Thats what Dianesdog answered to and the answer could of been about other shows she may have entered during the year other than Richmond, she could of mentioned Richmond and S.Wales as examples, I could be wrong though

In another post she had asked what certain class numbers for Richmond meant and they were all Neo Mastiff classess, rare breeds etc so think this is why Marianne B supposed that.

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1068620;hl=#pid1068620

Gemma you are misunderstanding me -I'm not talking about the RESULTS for Richmond, I am talking about the fact she said she HAD entered both puppy and open in Boxers at Richmond yet this clearly isn't the case as there were no puppies entered in open dog, only Champions.

There was however a puppy entered in both Puppy and Open (with the placings mentioned) in Neapolitan Mastiffs at Richmond, hence why I wondered if that was the breed.

Ahhhhh I see now, sorry about that