any advice welcome, i have been talking to a relative tonight, she was really upset, mid week one of her dogs fell really ill on the night, she was driving round with her daughter lookig for a vets that was open, eventually she found one who informed her that it looked like the dog was in shock and may have something lodged and needed an xray, before she could agree to it they asked her how much money she had? she didnt have anything on her and didnt get paid till the next day, they replied "we're not a charity" and refused to do anything, in the end she got him put to sleep because she didnt dare take him to someone else incase they said the same, she is so upset because she isnt sure that she did the right thing but i thought the vets were all for the animals and not the money, or is that just old fashioned? bottom line is can she take this further . i have asked my vets but theyre not allowed to advise, thanks sami

I don't see how she can take it further to be perfectly honest, it was her choice to have the dog PTS. 

I don't understand why she was driving round to find a vet open?  Very odd, as we all have vets that we're registered with, and I, personally would phone mine at 2am if needed.  He would tell me to meet him at the veterinary hospital.

As far as cost is concerned, I would worry about price after the event, and just get my credit card out.

First of all im sorry that the dog had to be PTS.

Did your relative not have her own vet that she could have called out at night.
I dont know much about the way vets work in their own practice's,but i would have thought they would of given the dog treatment in an emergency if it was possible.

I don't get the driving around either. ALL vets must have 24 hours cover (whether it is in their own practice or elsewhere), but they don't just stay open on the offchance and you can't go and knock on the door, you have to phone the normal number and the answering machine message will give you all emergency details.

mee too, i agree, in all honesty she wont have had a credit card and proberbly hasnt seen the vets since the dog was a baby if that

i think she proberbly wasnt registered anymore with a vet, the one that most ppl went too closed down and she wont have re registered i dont think, well i wouldnt have thought so,

thanks goldie, like iv said to the others she proberbly hasnt been registered at a vets anymore, as the old vets we all used to go too closed down and ppl had to register elsewhere she probs didnt

Very sad. I was under the impression no vet was allowed to refuse to treat an animal, but I guess it could be argued what constitutes refusal or not.

well regardless of her situation, i thought the same too, personally i would help the little dog

My vet has always only ever handed me a bill afterwards....they might say 'oh it will be around this much' but never taken anything of me until they know whats wrong and what they needed to do and then done it.

Is this not normal for most vets then or is it different in 'out of hours' ?

>she was driving round with her daughter lookig for a vets that was open,

Why did she not call the vet her dog was registered with? All vets have to provide 24-hour cover, either by themselves or with an out-of-hours service; but they won't be open 24 hours - it just means that a vet will be woken up and have to make a special journey to the surgery (which is why it costs so much).

> 'oh it will be around this much' but never taken anything of me until they know whats wrong and what they needed to do and then done it.Is this not normal for most vets then or is it different in 'out of hours' ?

My vet, and most of the other local vets use out of hours cover based in the PDSA hospital, provided by "Vets Now".  The first thing they say on the phone when an appointment is requested is the minimum charge, which is over £100, regardless of what treatment is given.

What a sad outcome.

I am a bit confused though because the Vet wouldn't do anything to help treat the dog because of your relative having no money with her but then 'happily' put the dog to sleep?  and free of charge?

sorry she got the dog put to sleep the day after by the same vets but different practice, she wouldnt have had the full amount to be able to proceed with the treatment and things the night before however she did offer to pay half of what it would cost but they said no because she had no money on her, i think thats all sorry i kjeep adding bits on because i forgot to mention things

im not sure on that part, i dont know if she would have re registered with another vet once the old practice closed down, to be honest i was ocnfused as to why she didnt go to our local vet because i forgot to mention that the vet she went too was in another town nearby

> I was under the impression no vet was allowed to refuse to treat an animal,

So was I.

Several years ago my OH & I found a chicken with a head injury, it was obviouly in need of hlep and not knowing what to do with it we took it to our vet for advise. They treated it imediately, without charging us. We, or the vets, had no idea who it belonged to so there was nobody to send a bill to. Sadly the chiken died anyway

> she is so upset because she isnt sure that she did the right thing

deansami
I have to say that I thought, under the Animal Welfare Act, that it would be sensible for anyone to be registered with a vet.  If she didn't bother to do anything about this when the previous vet closed, I have to say that I feel totally unsettled by her even owning a dog.  And, sorry to say that I honestly hope that she doesn't take it into her head to get another one.

She waited until the following day to have the dog put to sleep, yet it was suffering.  I daren't  say any more because it's not your fault, and what she did just makes me very angry.

>I daren't  say any more because it's not your fault, and what she did just makes me very angry.

Ditto.

She didn't think her dog was important enough to register (for free!) with a vet, so why should a vet, who had never met her or the dog before, assume she'd pay for out-of-hours treatment after the event?

i was told while ago
its against law for any vet to not treat an animal in need (regardless of payment)
jayne
xx

sorry but i really think your relative did the wrong thing.  This is so sad, and imo the poor dog deserved better than that!

> i was told while ago its against law for any vet to not treat an animal in need (regardless of payment)

I think the word "treat" may be open to interpretation.  Earlier this year we had a rescue case from a vets surgery - a dog had been taken in by a family who had "inherited" him from a neighbour who was terminally ill, in  a hospice.  One of the kids had left a gate open, the dog got out and was hit by a motorbike.  They took him to a vet, who quoted about £700 after a brief examination (broken leg, suspect broken jaw).  Family could/would no pay, so were told only alternative was PTS.  So I don't think a vet is obligated to give the treatment the owner would like, as putting the animal to sleep means the suffering is ended.

Our story had a happy outcome, as one of the vet nurses intervened, found us in the Rescue directoy, family happy to hand him over to us, vet nurse negotiated reduced fees with vet as she was willing to take him home for the post op care and it turned out his jaw was not broken anyway, just his leg.  Rescue coughed up just under £500 and  he is now a very happy Yankee in a new home.

Just wondering, what hapens for out of hours PDSA qualifying cases?

Gwen, a few years back one of my girls got into difficulties delivering a pup, called the vet at 9am they told us to go straight in with her, got there and they told us they wouldn't do the c-section until we paid 1/2 the cost up front!  We had left in such a hurry we hadn't picked up bank cards etc as they are our vet any way I would have thought they would have trusted us to come back when we picked our girl up, to pay the bill, but not a chance!  We've never had problems paying vets bills as we always have money to one side for such emergencies.  As it happened the stuck pup was born dead, probably due to the fact it was stuck, but I'm 100% certain it couldn't of helped waiting around for us to drive back home get our cards to pay the bill before they proceeded.

i was told while ago its against law for any vet to not treat an animal in need (regardless of payment)

Interesting! A few years ago I had a dog turn up in my garden that had obviously been hit by a car. It was a Sunday. I called our vet - who wouldn't treat a "stray", I called the RSPCA (and so did several neighbours) who said it was too far to travel from Leeds on a Sunday - 15 miles! So I called the police. An officer sat outside our house for two hours while the station tried to find a vet that would treat this dog and all refused. Eventually, on a 2nd plea, one vet said they would take a look so we lifted the dog into the patrol car and off it went... I later heard they had put her to sleep due to her being in shock which really isn't surprising after being in my garden for 3 hours while I tried to keep her comfortable! I've always wondered if their intention was always to PTS rather than treat - a much cheaper option? Sadly the owners knocked on my door a few days later to thank me for looking after their girl - she had got out, they had rung around to report her missing and the police gave her the sad news

What a sad situation. I shows from peoples post how different things can be from place to place. I had 2 incidents of animals that were not mine that I have taken to vets in the firtst occasion (many years ago the cat was run over and far to ill to be saved in the vets opininon but he was able to pts with no charge (I incidently landed up in hopsital from bites with in infected hand) The second was alittle westie who had been run over, my vet took him in out of hours fortunately we found his owner later thinking back my vet didn't mention to me payment before he treated the dog. It has not occured to me that any animal I might find that needed treatment I may have to pay first I really hope never to be in that position what a choice to have to make. I now realize I need to hang on to my vet after 20years as they also allow me direct claims and have treated my dogs out of ours emergency with no question of when and if I would pay. I am very lucky by the sound of things

> Sadly the owners knocked on my door a few days later to thank me for looking after their girl - she had got out, they had rung around to report her missing and the police gave her the sad news

What a very sad outcome for you, after keeping her comfortable and caring.  I can't imagine how gutted that would make you feel.

Same experience as furriefriends - I am very glad to say.

When I had an out of hours C-section, costing over £1,000 I never even thought of paying until I had my girl home and safe.  I did stay throughout surgery, and I suppose it was 3am when I took her home, but I didn't actually pay until I took one of the gang in the following week for boosters.

Like most vets, my practise has a sign up making it clear that payment is at the time of treatment.  But, like furriefriends, I have a much loved and trusted, longstanding vet.  Which is why I feel that not being registered is a sin!  My vet has thousands of pounds a year from me, and knows me well enough.  In his words ' I know you're not going anywhere!'

I once witnessed a cat hit by a car in front of me.  Young boy driver, with all his mates, music blaring, got out of the car, and were horrified to see what they had done.  When the cat started fitting, they got in the car and drove off.  Panic I guess. 

It was a Sunday afternoon, and I drove to my vets - this was before the days of mobile phones.  I just touched lucky that the vet had been called in anyway.  Broken jaw etc, usual RTA injuries.  I had to book the cat in, in my own name.

Went back to the area that this happened and made enquiries by knocking on doors.  It seems the owners were on holiday, and a neighbour was supposed to be feeding the cat.  I put a note through the owners door, giving all my details and information on my own vet.  I did phone my vet the following day, and the cat did survive.

To this day the owner has never got in touch to thank me, but I would still do the same again.  My vet didn't ever contact me for payment.

sorry she got the dog put to sleep the day after by the same vets but different practice, she wouldnt have had the full amount to be able to proceed with the treatment and things the night before however she did offer to pay half of what it would cost but they said no because she had no money on her,

I can't quite make head or tail of this story, so much of it does not make sense at all. Not your fault but I just feel that your friend is relaying the bits which hit home with her perhaps missing out bits of the conversation and only remembering her side as often happens when we are upset and feeling helpless.

Vets generally are not in a practice on an evening they have homes and lives too, it is usually just a cover nurse or two who may be there to care for any overnight patients with a vet on call in an emergency who can be called in. I don't understand that rather than pick up the phone on an evening and ring around vets in the area asking for help, she chose to take a sick dog in a car and go door knocking at veterinaries, does that really make sense to you? It doesn't to me, not one bit.

Then, they asked her how much money she had? she didnt have anything on her and didnt get paid till the next day, they replied "we're not a charity" did she even speak to a vet here, was this just the nurse or a receptionist? Your seriously expecting anyone to believe they would not wait a day to be paid? Or in an emergency offer a payment plan?  Are you sure she has relayed this correctly? I just feel there are whole bits missing here, it doesn't make sense.  If these are the complete facts then get in touch with the RCVS and have your friend relay everything truthfully to them.          http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=89916&int1stParentNodeID=89644

What else does not make sense is that she then took this sick dog home, waited until the next day and took it back to the same practice at another branch and they put the dog to sleep. Why would they put the dog to sleep if they did not feel there was much hope? Does it make sense that they would do that, to me it doesn't.

It seems that the dog must have been in serious trouble but maybe your friend could not pay for the exploration work which often is just circumstance, and often still can not save a life, with insurance they may well do it, if a vet truly felt a dog could be saved then surely they would not put it to sleep, or is my faith in vets truly misdirected and they have become an uncaring business wherein if you don't have the money, hard luck! Gosh I hope that isn't true. I pray that isn't true.

I feel desperately sorry for your friend, did she call the RSPCA, PDSA I would try everyone if I felt my dog could be saved, being embarrassed or having someone speak down to you, as she indicates would not stop me from trying everything.

By all means tell your friend to stand up for herself, not to be afraid to take things further and complain to the above link. But, I truly hope that she has just left huge holes in this story as it does not bare thinking about, just everyone make sure that you are registered with a vet and have insurance or a credit card always when you have a animal to care for.

Let us know what happens.

DITTO!! Carrington!
i think the relative is upset that she lost her dog and has just turned on the vet because she couldnt afford treatment.
i have a good relationship with my vet and on a couple of occasions he has said to me 'dont worry we will square the bill up on monday,!  but i do think its a business like any else, i wouldnt get out of bed in the night for expensive work for someone i never met and not knowing whether i would get paid for it. doesnt sound like the full story to me.

What I can't understand is WHY she was driving around looking a vet which was open out of hours rather than sitting with the phone book and telephoning them all first!  Surely every vet has an answerphone message giving details of who (a telephone number) to ring in an emergency.

>Surely every vet has an answerphone message giving details of who (a telephone number) to ring in an emergency.

Yes. Why the owner wasted so much time driving around instead of phoning around is a mystery.

This so made me sad Malakai.
Encouraging that you AND the police took those extra steps to help.  Forbid that it would happen to one of mine but at least the dog was cared for in its last few hours.
To OP there are a number of 'out of hours' services.  My vets [of over 20 years] no longer do out of hours calls but have a service that is a considerable distance away but worth it - even if by taxi - if serious enough.  Having once used this service I believe they will also deal with unregisterrd animals.  If ther is difficulty in paying [I truly understand this] even by debit/credit card there are charities such as PDSA that will help in genuine circumstances , even if that was the next day. 

I think a lesson to be learned from this is to ensure our pets are covered by insurance - I know huge [comparative to income] bills can be impossible to find but do not forget the help charities can provide.

carrington thanks very much, you have been so helpfull, i will pass this on to her but im now afraid to ask her about it just incase she hasnt told me the whole story then im going to feel really stupid, my mam said she proberbly hasnt told me the whole story and once again i have been spider webbed. in soooooo gullable and i sponge anythin in. but this post has been very interesting to hear everyones mixed views thanks all for your help

well for all of £6 a month whats this? especially when something like this occurs, i mean i have been having trouble with one of my girls which is still on going and if it wasnt for my insurance i wouldnt be able to afford the treatment, i think the least you will pay per dog is £3.99 which is nothing although the more you pay the more you get,

there are charities such as PDSA that will help in genuine circumstances

I beg to dispute this statement Heidi (unless things have changed in recent years).  My then 26 year old daughter was on the dole and living with me.  I have never been more than a basic wage earner (no partner to add to finances).  When my daughter's collie needed a vet the PDSA refused to see her because my daughter was not paying me any rent.  She had to show proof of her financial situation (dole and rental agreement) before they would even let her 'register'.  Needless to say the dog was taken to a private vet and guess who had to pay the bill, which I really could ill-afford!  I have never supported the PDSA since and never will.

Also the PDSA doesn't cover all areas of the country.

The RSPCA have an out of hours clinic's listed in the Yellow pages or on yell.com, many young vets who have no time served do voluntary work at these Ctrs so cost is minimal to owners, however you do have to prove your income, after treatment (not before)....

Also out of hours vet's called PetMedic, but these are extortionate charging £80 plus call out just to look at sick animal, but it is still an option.  You have to pay after treatment.....

Also, if pet insured, insurance company wouldn't they pay the bill after treatment....

I have a fantastic vets and if you haven't the funds to pay, i know people who pay weekly/monthly for expensive treatment, coincidentally, they pay after treatment too.....

It may not help your friend now, but maybe its something to keep in mind... there is always an alternative!

My 2 pennies:

Phonebook, Vets - phone the first on the list and carry on down untill some one will help and I'm sure at least one would of helped her out!

I think threy do have a duty to treat an animal in an emergency with or without proof of an ability to pay.

My uncle frequently performed emergency surgery on animals be they pets or wild animals. Treat first. Collect payments later. If need be he'd agree to let them pay monthly and let them leave with a bill knowing full well he was unlikley to see them or their money again. He'd even treat animals from owners who were blacklisted by several other vets because they hadn't paid their vet bills. An my uncle could still afford to send all his kids to privte school, live in a huge 5 bedroomed house with a heated swimmimg pool and several cars and several acres of land in one of the most expensive locations in the uk. They go into tis field of work because they love animals and want to make a difference and can't help themselves - it's a compulision.

Very sorry she met a vet who didn't have the same passion for their chosen pathway in life.

As people have said it really is essential to keep a couple of emergancy contact numbers and phone up first. It's easy to panic and rush out in desperation but there is no point driving the dog to  vet until you know you have one who can treat the dog.  The odds were the dog couldn't feasibly be saved because it is highly unlikley the vet would agree to put the dog to sleep unless they were sure this was the most probable outcome. They will most likely have asked about money to see if she was able to afford the cost of extra and surgery even if it would still most probably result in the death of the dog.