This will take some explaining

I live in a semi rural area in what used to be 1 of 6 tied cottages built in 1890, to the front sadly now a by-pass to the rear open fields, farmland and copses.

My garden is not attached to my property but is actually 100 feet away, the garden of my neighbour's to the right of my property comes first my follows on from his.

For us to access our gardens we have to use a track that runs adjacent to both gardens, this track is over 300ft long, it was many many many years ago the property of the council.

Our properties have had 'right of way' up this old track since 1890 ish, we are allowed to have service and trades men use it and we are allowed to use it with 'vehicles of the day'. We are not allowed to block it or park in it, which we adhere to.
We drive our cars up the track and park on our garden at the top.

This track was bought from the council some 40 plus years ago and is now owned by the gentleman in 'the big house' right at the top of the track.

We have lived here for 11 years and in all of that time he has done nothing to mauntain it, between my neighbours and myself we cut the grass and trim back the hedges as best we can so that the track is passable.

The 'foul drain' to his property runs down the track, the drain cover is kept clear by us for access, our foul drains join up to the main one in the track.

This morning 7am when I went up the track to our garden with my 6 troop of dogs all was safe and clear on the track.

At 10.30am when my OH called by from work to take them for a walk there was a dirty great big hole, the ground had collapsed and now there is a 10inch diameter hole that falls in to a gaping chasm of nearly a foot diameter, it is about 3ft from the foul drain right in the center of the track and not were vehicle wheels would pass.

We have notifioed the landowner he says he will view it tomorrow.

Question
As it's his land is it his responsibilty, or can he ask us to pay for repairs if it should be that the drain has collapsed?
No where in our deeds does it say that we are responsible for wear and tear or maintenance of the right of way on his land.

I would add his first comment when informed was 'is it where the cars drive over'!

If he asks you to contribute to the repair, it would be wise to seek legal advise before paying anything (maybe the CAB or a solicitor), but it will all depend on the exact wording of your right of way Do you pay anything like an annual 'rent' for the right of way ?

Daisy

We pay nothing and never had, it is a very old 'right of way' and existed long before he bought the track, he bought the track with the right of way on it, it is part of our deeds that we have this right of way but that the land that it is on belongs to a third party i.e. the chap in the big house

We had a similar situation years ago when a wall collapsed along a section of path where we had a right of way.

My understanding is that responsibility for repair lies with the landowner, although we were asked to explain how we used the right of way.  In our case we had to clarify that we only used it for pedestrian access.  If I recall it was just a letter to a solicitor as it was subject to a disputed insurance claim

You may need to clarify that you've not exceeded your terms of access and it might be sensible to get a copy of any documentation pertaining to your right of way.  Otherwise it should all be in the deeds passed from the council to the new owner at time of sale and he'll presumably make an insurance claim.

As back up - keep a photo to show the damage on the date it was reported by you.  It may get worse before it gets fixed.  Hope it gets sorted soon

I'm hoping that it will just be an insurance claim on his behalf, his tone on phoning him concerned me though, I think he would like to imply that it is because we drive our car and van down the track that we may have caused it.

Our deeds state that we can 'use horse and cart or vehicle of the day' so to me that means car and van.

He has in the past implied that he 'lets us use his track'  but I know this not to be the case as the right of way existed before he bought the land.

What concerns me is that on inspecting the track I can see that there are several other parts that look suspect and will in time collapse and it all follows the line of his foul drain to which ours adjoin.

Well, in my not at all educated opinion , it is up to him as the owner to get it repaired. Then it is down to him to prove that you have to contribute to it's repair I'm not sure about who is responsible for drains, but have always assumed that you are responsible for the drains on your own land only. However we have a shared drain with our next door neighbour out to the main sewer under the road and it runs on our property. Should it need repair I have no idea whether we would be entitled to ask them to contribute

Can only suggest that you would need legal advise

Daisy

I think we'll take your advise and get advise, I do know that we are responsible for all water supplies and drainage that is on our property and within our boundaries but this is not actually on our property.

Good luck - let's hope that you don't need to pay anything

Daisy

I wouldn't even panic yet, the landowner is only in the process of looking at it, I would expect that he will just get it put right and not bother you at all with the details.

No point in paying out for solicitors etc if you don't need to, only if a problem arises, but IMO the landowner of the track will need to pay for the repair if it is just down to wear and tear, if however he feels that someone has damaged (his property) by un-natural force or by doing something they shouldn't have then he is entitled to pass the buck to yourselves, but if you've done nothing wrong he will sort it himself, so don't worry.

We have right of way over a rear access for a £10 annual way leave payment. The landowner is not obliged to maintain the right of way and maintenance is down to those who use it. If the landowner is not prepared to repair the right of way I would advise that you consult a legal expert. If you own the house the details of the right of way should have been investigated when you bought the property so you may have a copy of this somewhere or be able to find out from the solicitor who did your conveyancing. I would imagine that the mortgage provider, if you have a mortgage, may also have requested details of the right of way arrangements and may have details on their files.

I think you will find you have a right of way if it is still passable by car ect he may not have to do a lot to it. He should pay for the maint. but the mute point is,is it still passable? Whilst you may have a right over it that may not mean "so its going to be the same standard as it always was" it could be a right over rougher ground.

Land owner viewed the hole today and said that he'd already instructed Thames Water to come and check things over, he asked if we had any problems with water/drain facilties and OH said business as usual i.e. still the horrendous smell that we've had for years coming up from the drains when the wind is in right direction.

I think that the age old foul drain set down many years back has collapsed and subsequently the ground above it has fallen in, there is evidence of further fall in's along the track following the line of the drain.

Land owner noted that the problem was not in the area where vehicle wheels would run, the track at the moment is still passable, mind you it'll be fun to see what happens when Thames Water arrives, we drive a 4x4 so can traverse this track easily but I've seen many a poor postie or leccy van fall into the ditch