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By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 12.11.09 18:27 GMT
Hi Everyone,

Some of you may know my scare a few weeks ago with my girl bella, possible cancer, wasnt that, was bone plate problem, well she isnt doing well still.

However i have just got back from the vets as my next oldest girl crystal who is 6.5yrs (Rottie) went suddenly lame 2 weeks ago also, was given Rimadyl and advised strict rest.....this gets worse as she is currently nursing her final litter!!! They are aged 4 weeks and so as there has been no improvement i wanted it investigated further. My vet is xraying in the morning as he now feels that cancer of the shoulder is a very high possibilty as she has a swelling on the front of her shoulder blade too and the rimadyl has done nothing, she has slowly got worse and today was non-weightbearing and clearly uncomfortable :-(

I am in tears with the thought of tommorrow's results, and her poor babies too. I feel cursed as we wanted a puppy from crystal as she is just beautiful, after two failed attempts a couple of years ago we got a litter last year and 2 weeks before they were born i lost my Abbey which devastated me and therefore i didnt keep a pup. So we decided to try once more this year and everything went really well and i have a little girl i am keeping and calling Faith (ironic) and no to have this possibility it feels like everything is going wrong again!!!

She is just 6 and i know people have lost younger dogs to cancer but this just seems unfair, she is so fit i cant quite believe it.

Any experiences of cancer options would be greatfully recieved so i can have some questions in my head for tommorrow if i do get the result i am fearing for the second time in almost as many weeks!

I dont know how i feel about amputation or if this is even possible if it is as high up as the shoulder?

My head is all over the place and i feel like an emotional wreck, please god let it be another false alarm though my gut this time really feels it wont be good news :-( :-( :-(
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By Justine (**) [gb] Date 12.11.09 19:54 GMT
Mandy I'm sorry about Crystal.  You must be so worried.  :-(

Having got a 12 year old girl myself that had osteo sarcoma 4 years ago and under went rear leg amputation, I can totally understand how you are feeling.

I wish you all the luck in the world for tomorrow xxx
Justine, Bronte, Marnie, Lottie, Dusty, Ziya, Ania and Neka :-)
And Remi, Dixie and Saffie at RB x
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 12.11.09 20:52 GMT
Thanks Justine,

Did your girl have any other treatment or just amputation alone as i would be happy to consider this is there is no signs of it spreading to the lungs
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By Justine (**) [gb] Date 12.11.09 21:06 GMT
Mandy she had no other treatment apart from amputation. I wouldn't have put her through chemo tbh.

She is a large breed Gun Dog and the sarcoma had put a huge hole in the tibia so our Vet wouldn't even risk doing a biopsy because the bone was so weak.

We were left with the decision of fill her full of painkillers for what was probably 2 weeks max and then PTS or amputation.  After a few days crying buckets, we opted for that.  She did have a few teething problems, but once she had turned the corner and was on the mend, we never looked back.

She had her chest xrayed at the time and that was clear too.  Our vet took her leg off right to the top to give her the best possible chance.  He was dubious that she would cope being a larger dog but he soon admitted he'd had to eat his words! I knew she would because she is just that sort of dog.  Nothing stops her from doing what she wants.

She does get out of breath now and I was concerned that the cancer had returned but we had her chest xrayed a few months ago and its bronchitis, not cancer.

I was just under the opinion that I had to give her a chance, even though its not for everybody, I felt I had nothing to lose.  I was going to lose her anyway if the leg had stayed on.  Once the leg was gone and she had healed, so was the pain.

She's always had just a mixture of dry food and ND or forthglade, mince and veggies for dinner and now she has omega 3 fish oil capsules, but thats it.  No painkillers, just the odd drop of benylin to help her chest if its rattling abit.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and praying that its a good outcome. xx
Justine, Bronte, Marnie, Lottie, Dusty, Ziya, Ania and Neka :-)
And Remi, Dixie and Saffie at RB x
By furriefriends (****) [gb] Date 12.11.09 22:24 GMT
My flatti developed cancer in her leg we were given options of amputation, chemo or radio therapy or a combination.After many tears and a lot of talking to others with personal experience I opted for radio therapy at Cambridge after consultation with the vet at Davies Higham Gobian Hertfordshire. She was not at all uncomfortable during the treatment which was completly sucessfull the only sign was temporary loss of fur along the radiotherapy path which later returned as white !
Fingers crossed that you will have good news and not have to make any of theses descions.
Forgot to say she also had xrays of the chest and fortunately no sign of secondaries and this was after an toe amputation a couple of years previously also for cancer.
 
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 12.11.09 22:30 GMT
You poor thing!  :-(

Having lost two dogs within 10 weeks of each other earlier this year, I understand that your head is spinning.  I can't offer any help, as I haven't had a dog with cancer (although would not hesitate to say yes to amputation.)

I just wanted to send you positive vibes and ((((  HUGS  ))))
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By Archiebongo (**) [no] Date 13.11.09 07:51 GMT
So sorry to hear about this. My gordon Setter had this 2 years ago and i know what you are going through. Archie was only 3 when he developed bone cancer. We decided to try every avenue open to us for him and went ahead with amp of his front leg, followed by chemo. He was ct scanned beforehand to make sure it had not spread. Unfortunately, we only got a few extre months with him before it had spread and we called it a day.  After talking to both my vet and the vet college spec. That his age was against him. Apparently, the older they are the better chance they have of overcoming this. It tends to be more aggressive in younger dogs.     You are in my thoughts and if i can answer any questions let me know.  Jill Xxx   ps please excuse the typos - am using my phone.
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 13.11.09 13:12 GMT
We are back and she does have a very large and very aggressive tumor, i am absolutely devastated and cant write anymore at the moment
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 13.11.09 13:14 GMT
I'm so sorry. I understand the agony you're in.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By Whistler (***) [gb] Date 13.11.09 13:54 GMT
I am so sorry about your news, you do not deserve this again.

I will think of you whan I can and I hope you and she will be ok.

Viv
X
By wendy (**) [gb] Date 13.11.09 15:26 GMT
I am just so very sorry to hear this.  Thinking of you all. x
By Justine (**) [gb] Date 13.11.09 15:43 GMT
Mandy I am so sorry :-(  :-( I have kept dropping in to see if you had any news.  If i can be of help, when you're ready, please feel free to PM me. (((big hugs to you))) xxx
Justine, Bronte, Marnie, Lottie, Dusty, Ziya, Ania and Neka :-)
And Remi, Dixie and Saffie at RB x
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 13.11.09 15:58 GMT
Mandy I am so very sorry.  Crying for you here at the moment.  I know that you will make decisions based on what is best for Crystal.  It is so difficult trying to comfort someone, when their whole word is blown apart.  I am glad that you have Faith, although that will not make any difference to how you feel about your beloved Crystal.

Just to say that I am thinking of you.  Talk about pawprints on the heart!
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By Archiebongo (**) [gb] Date 13.11.09 16:11 GMT
Mandy

So sorry to hear this.  If I can help at all, send me a pm! 

I know how hard this is, but only you knows what's best for her.  Don't make any rash decisions.  if you're anything like me, you'll chop and change your mind over the weekend as to what to do next. (and cry bucket loads)

Jill
x
By denese (***) [gb] Date 13.11.09 21:51 GMT
Don't know what to say, you must feel the world is against you! Try to think positive, I know its hard, she has given you these beautiful babies. My heart goes out to you, see if you can bide time with pain killers for her. Take a day at a time.
God bless you all.

Denese
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 13.11.09 22:18 GMT
Thanks Jill and everyone who has replied, it means alot.

Well i have done nothing but cry all day and am torn as to what to do. My vet is fab and i trust him completely, he is so honest and always puts the dog first. He was choked this morning when he had to tell me the news. He has told me my options and wants me to think it over for a week so i dont make either choice too quickly. Really it is Amputation or pts. I asked him to xray the chest too and that was clear which initially made me want to take off the leg, but when talking more with him he showed me exactly what he would need to remove....the surgery is major as it is in her shoulder it would be removed right from the top to take the whole shoulder blade and leg away. He told me what i already know and that is that most dogs with just amputation alone only get 3/4 months and this seems unfair to put her through such trauma so i can have a couple more months. Then you hear the odd story of the ones that beat all the odds and live for another few years.
What to do, i really dont know, one minute i look at her and think i cant put my girl through it and then an hr later i feel i have to try, my head is pounding with the upset and stress.

She has been given a new pain killer called troxocil (sp) and it is a slow release pill so she has one and then another one in 2 weeks.
My vet has booked her in for the amputation monday week and wants me to think about it fully, if i decide thats not right for her then i will have to let her go if the pain relief does not keep her comfortable. I dont want to do chemo at all so it would be just the Amp if i did.

Though the chest was clear i know that it could still be there just not advanced enough to show yet and i would hate to do all that to her and have it come back within weeks/months.

I cant believe just a year after losing Abbey i am faced with a horrible decision yet again. I have never been at ease with my choice for abbey and am terrified of feeling that i made a mistake again for not trying.

I know no one call tell me whats right but any thoughts or experiences would be great to hear. I am truely devastated, just cuddling her babies makes me cry buckets it is ironic that i have finally got my little girl i have wanted and i will now lose my beautiful crystal.
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By Teri (****) [gb] Date 13.11.09 23:02 GMT
Hi Mandy

I've popped in and out of the forum and somehow managed to miss the health board.  I've only just read your news and wanted to send supportive thoughts, prayers, blessing and much needed hugs to you right now.  You've already had so much to deal with and your previous pain I'm sure still hurts.  To have this on top is awful and I'm genuinely sorry for your grief and can fully sympathise.

I'm glad you have a good vet that will steer you towards what is right for your girl.  A vet like that is worth his/her weight in gold bullion.  Be advised and be strong enough to follow through on what the vet feels is the correct way to proceed.

You have lots of support on here - use it ;-)
God bless, Teri x
'Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers' (Voltaire)
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 14.11.09 00:01 GMT
Oh Mandy, I feel so much for you.  Whatever you decide, you have to make this one decision alone.  I am glad that your vet is so sympathetic.  But, in the end, only you can decide.  I didn't want to have to make the decision to let Misty go in June this year.  But I knew it was right for her.  Sending you strength to comfort you.
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By Justine (**) [gb] Date 14.11.09 06:38 GMT
Mandy I can tell you the story of my girl.

I'm probably repeating myself but she was 7 (large breed gun dog) and started limping.  Quick xray after a few days of pain killers only to find huge hole in the tibia.  At this point, even though it was a few days, she was not putting her foot down and was in considerable pain. She has never been a drama queen so I knew that it must have been bad.

We also did chest xray and it was clear.  My vet gave me the same choices.  Having had chemo myself, I knew that I would not put her through it and I knew that there was no way she would sit through that, while it was administered.  I have known other dogs that have had it though and coped well and it has given them a quality of life.  But it wasn't for us.

My vet gave us 4-6 months, but did say there is always an exception to the rule.  He was concerned that she would not cope on 3 legs but she had done up till that point, so she went in for surgery.  After a couple of hours, he rang me and said I can go and get her cos she was barking to come out. ;-)  So he opened the kennel door when I got there, and she ran out, made a fuss of me and stood by the door while I paid.  She was wide awake and itching to get home.  I came home with loads of ab's and pk's and I opened the surgery door and she ran out, straight to the back of the van and waited for me to get there.  The vet then said to me, she will cope!

So we went home and she slept and the swelling did get quite bad but after a few days she was improving.  She wanted to come for a walk so we went and sat up on our local field and she just mooched about as she wanted to, and strenghening the other leg at the same time.  I bought a harness from canine chemist for her (they do front and back end ones) so if she was tired, I could pop it on and carry her in it like you would a shopping bag. We did have one incident when somebody elses dog ran in to her and caused her op site to start bleeding but we popped to the Vet and it was just mainly old blood that had sat between the muscles so once it was all out, the swelling went right down and at that point, we turned the corner.

I met a lady who had a rottie x that had his front leg amputated as result of a traffic accident, and that was a male.  He also managed to cock his leg too, which amazed me.  She did warn me that people do make comments etc but I was all ready for that.

Since then, now 4 years down the line, she is still going.  I know she is in the small minority that do survive but I was so pleased that I made that decision.  The only thing she can't do now, that she did before is counter surf and open door handles.  I did feel guilty at first because of the swelling etc but she soon got over it. Once the leg was gone, and she didn't have to carry the extra weight about, she just improved every day.

I do help her up the stairs now cos of her bronchitis but that has only been for the past 6 months or so.  She got up on her own till then. 

Over the years, people have commented, - 1 person asking me 'how much the op cost and saying that I could have bought 2 more dogs for that price' to which he got an answer that he wasn't expecting!  Most people have been lovely and everybody knows her in the park where we walk. 

We met a little boy who was about 7, playing football a couple of weeks ago on our local park and he was asking me all about the dogs etc.  He asked me who was the slowest, oldest, fastest etc so I pointed at my old girl and said she is the oldest and the slowest now, and he asked why.  So I said, well she is older than you and she only has 3 legs.  He looked at her and asked if he could say hello to her.  So he went over and said 'why does she have 3 legs, I've never seen a dog with 3 legs before'.  I said, 'well you have now and she had it taken off my the Doctor cos her leg was poorly'.  I had to smile because he went over to her, put his hand on her back and leaned right underneath her to have a proper look, just like you would if you where leaning down to check your car tyres.  She just stood there while he examined her.  It was amusing. Then came the inevitable question ' how does she wee'.  :-)  So I just said, well she wee's like any other dog and he toddled off!

Anyway, I'm waffling now so thats my story.  This site might be of help to you, in your decision. http://tripawds.com/ Have a browse through that.

My dog had no hang ups about her having her leg amputated, she was just back to normal in a few weeks, and free from pain, and more importantly she was still here with us.

HTH xxxxx
Justine, Bronte, Marnie, Lottie, Dusty, Ziya, Ania and Neka :-)
And Remi, Dixie and Saffie at RB x
By Archiebongo (**) [gb] Date 14.11.09 08:43 GMT
Mandy

the surgery is major as it is in her shoulder it would be removed right from the top to take the whole shoulder blade and leg away

this is the normal process as it apparently causes less wear on the skin if they take the entire leg and shoulder away. 

I dont want to do chemo at all

Archie was neither up nor down after the chemo.  He coped really well with it and even my vets, who did the chemo for me, said he was great.

One thing to be aware of, and I don't know if this is normal, but Archie suffered alot of phantom pain in the beginning.  I can't remember all the pain killers he was on, but I was advised by my vet, to give him up to 3 times the recommended dose, to help him with the phantom pain. I did this for a few days before weaning him off the pain killers completely in a week post amp.   All this did was to make him very sleepy, which also helped for his wound to heal.  

Until the wound healed completly (front leg amped), I used to put t shirts on him to stop him worrying the stitches/staples.  I also bought a couple of cheap single duvet covers and pillows to put down in the floor in his room to make him comfortable. the pillows especially made alot of difference as he could lean against them and get comfortable and prop himself up on them.

He was funny, as he would insist on cocking his leg, and Archie being Archie, always had to see how high he could pee - did his amp stop him - NO!  At first I helped balance him, but once his wound was healed he had to learn to balance.  needless to say he was still able to pee pretty high on 2 legs :-)

I have never been at ease with my choice for abbey and am terrified of feeling that i made a mistake again for not trying

This was one of the main reasons I decided to throw everything that i could at Archie.  I knew I had to at least try. I always kept his best interests at heart and said that if he was suffering or not coping that would be it.  He was amazing though and sailed through everything.  thankfully he suddenly went downhill, and it was an easy decision to make to call it a day (although the hardest to live with - the tears have started as I'm typing this).  My vets were great and I'm not sure who cried the most, me or the vet, when we put him to sleep.  i also had the valuable support of my current boys breeder, who is also a vet nurse, who I could talk to.    She helped me understand everything and was always there on the end of the phone should i need anything. I found it really helped to have someone slightly detached, who could talk things over with me, without being emotionally involved. She was fantastic and I can never thank her enough for all the support and help she gave me.

At 3 and a half, I knew I had to try what I could for him.  he was young and I couldn't just give up on him.  I have questioned myself over and over again about whether I did the right thing for him, and I can honestly say, now nearly 2 years on that I think I did. 

You and Crystal are in my thoughts, i know how hard this decision is to make. 

Jill
By Annabella (***) [gb] Date 14.11.09 11:13 GMT
Mandy I am so very sorry,you are all in my thoughts.

Sheila.XX
Annie.my lovely labrador and little tom kitten and of course Belle Dog
Run Free Sadie
By gembo (***) [gb] Date 14.11.09 12:02 GMT
What a superb post Justine, very inspiring.

Mandy I've no idea what to write that will offer any comfort, however CD is great for support from people like Justine who've lived through the hell you are in right now & I'm 100% sure you will get all the help, advice & support they can give.  Listen to them, ask questions & don't be afraid to come on here to rant or get upset.  We've all got dogs & can understand how distraught you will be feeling.

Whatever option you choose I'm sure it will be the right one for you & Crystal.  My thought are with you at this difficult time.
25th sept 2010 i will become mrs kelly!!
By furriefriends (****) [gb] Date 14.11.09 12:29 GMT
Mandy i am so sorry, I know with your big heart and love for your dogs whatever desion you make will be the right and best one for crystal. xx
By ali-t (***) [gb] Date 14.11.09 13:56 GMT
I have no useful advice to give you but just want you to know you are in my thoughts.  I am sure you will make the right decision for Crystal, whatever it may be. xxx
The artist formerly known as cheekychow! - with a staffy and a rottie not a chow, but very cheeky!
By LouiseDDB (***) [gb] Date 14.11.09 17:15 GMT
Hi mandy,

Shes such a big girl so amputation will really take it out of her, if its been isolated and she runs the all clear after the op then she will just have mobility issues but will still be by your side. Im glad you had one last chance of a pup from her. If it does spread you know yourself after the amputation you have no other options, not like with Abbey the decision will be made for you.

I recommend another precious stone for your pups name, you have Jas already but what about Jem or Pearl?

Louise xx
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 14.11.09 18:38 GMT
Hi Louise,

I really dont have a problem with her having 3 legs, even though she is a big girl at 48kg she is so strong and powerful i really think she would cope.
My heartwrenching choice comes down to the trauma and pain of the surgery Vs how long that will give her as my vet has said the average timescale for just amputation is around 4 months!  one of which she will be recovering and adapting and the last one of which she may be feeling pretty crap as the cancer takes hold a second time so if it was going to only give her 2 months of quality, happy and painfree time i dont think that would be fair and would be more for me.

I am still completely undecided and dont even know how i am going to make my choice by next monday, she is a fantastic member of my family and will be a huge loss to me (wont they all when that time comes) i look at her 4 week old babies and it makes me feel sick to my stomach that she went through pregnancy while she had cancer and i just never knew. Though of course i am glad that i have her daughter now that i have always wanted, it is like she has given me my gift before she leaves me.

I had already picked my girls name before i knew about all this and she is called 'Faith'  how ironic and is it someone trying to tell me to have Faith that things will be ok....who knows?
See in tears again now typing, part of me wants to try but part of me says thats for me and not her and she MUST come first, i love her too much for it to be any other way.
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By Lea (****) [gb] Date 14.11.09 21:40 GMT
I have tears in my eyes reading all this.
I am so sorry you have to make this decision.
You and only you know whats right, and I believe you know what you want from reading your posts. xxxxxxx
I am so sorry, I wish there was more I could say but there isnt
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Lea xxxx
We are here for you whatever you decide xxxxx
By justi (*) [gb] Date 14.11.09 23:00 GMT
Hi mandy
I too had a dog with 0steosarcoma, hers was in the hip pelvis joint, my vet referred me to an oncologist (she was wonderful, as oncologists only deal with cancer her knowledge of up to date treatment options was amazing). We opted to go for amputation and chemo, simply because she was 7 and I needed to give her the chance to beat it, I know this course is not for everyone but for us it was the best option, as her cancer was in the hip (labrador) everything had to go major operation. They would not let us visit day of operation as they said she would be out of it with the drugs, so we went the next day. I dreaded it, but it is something I will never forget, they had her in a room waiting, she heard me and as I opened the door she got us and flew across the room, frightening everyone, that was amazing enough but what I will never forget is the look in her eyes, it was my old dog back, her eyes were bright clear and happy, the awful pain of os was no more, it was only then that I realised just how much pain she must have been in.  Recovery from amputation for her was thankfully swift and uneventful, the we did chemo, you would never have known she was having chemo no side effects at all, we chose the chemo carboplatin.  Chemo finished and she carried on loving life, she still ran, swam, chased her ball played with the other dogs and unfortunately still  loved to dig up the lawn, her oncologist said dogs are born with three legs and a spare I didnt believe her but she was right she never missed her leg at all.......... The outcome was it worth it YES IT WAS she lived over another 7 more years finially losing her to a massive stroke two weeks before her 15th birthday, in all that time even in old age she never missed the leg.  I will message you a couple of websites that hold alot of information on bone cancer and treatments in case it will help you.  Hang in there
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 14.11.09 23:13 GMT
justi

What a lovely story, has brought tears to my eyes.  Was definitely worth it for another 7 years!  :-)
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 16.11.09 11:18 GMT
Well have thought about nothing else all weekend and still have until next monday to decide, and i dont have a clue what to do!

I know deep down in my heart I want to try incase she is that small minority that get another year or two, but i am so scared of putting her through it for it to return really quickly. I think she would be fine on 3 legs even though she is a big girl as she would be happy with a couple of short walks and then lay round the house all day having cuddles.

I know most people i have spoke to think i should not operate but it is easy to say when they are not your babies, letting go AGAIN so soon is terrifying.
Also i dont want to feel that pain of regret that i felt and still do to some degree about my decision last year.

I just dont know how i will decide :-(
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By justi (*) [gb] Date 16.11.09 12:48 GMT
I do feel for you, having been in the same situation I know how hard it is to make a decision, if it helps any everyone in my family, with the exception of my mum, wanted me to have her put to sleep, my sister even offered to buy me a puppy, she didnt realise how crass and awful a suggestion that was till later, all my friends told me to let her go, but she was MY dog MY responsibility and I had to do what was right for me and my dog, I had no idea of the outcome we were to get, but I knew I personally had to give her the chance, and if it was not to be, then I would have to let her go, but at least I knew in my heart that I would have no regrets that I had tried, but you can also look at it differently what if I did put her through the op, then lose her soon after, would that have been fair either, the problem is it is a lottery she could do well and live long, she could sadly be one of the ones that dont get so long, there is no way of telling, so go with your heart, you know your own dog, do what you think is best deep in your heart, then you will have no regrets, just because it was right me me to go the way I went doesnt mean it is right for everyone.  What ever decision you make it has to be one you are comfortable making none of us can tell you what to do, we can only tell you what we decided to do and why and the results we  had.
By Justine (**) [gb] Date 16.11.09 13:33 GMT
Mandy apart from sending you a virtual hug, I can only say to you as the other girls have, the only time I regretted having my dogs leg amputated was when that other dog bumped into her just post op and caused the wound to open slightly and she had that awful bleed, but as it happens, it was just old blood sitting in between the muscles, so it was a blessing really that it came out, even though at the time, it was pretty scary to see.

Since then she has lived a near normal life.  Apart from the odd dodgy tummy (usually caused by eating rubbish!) and her now rattley chest, she is has been absolutely fine and is pain free.  She is 12 now, I did worry at first that she sure may develop arthritis, but she doesn't seem to have, which for her size and breed, its good going for a dog with 4 legs, never mind 3!

A friend of mine mentioned about a Rottie bitch called Lottie, who apparently had 3 legs, that wandered around Crufts collecting money for a Charity some years ago, so I don't know if anybody remembers her?  I haven't been showing long so it was before my time but my friend said she coped very well with it.

IMO with my old girls situation at the time, I needed to make a decision quickly as the bone was unstable, but after alot of soul searching, I realised I had nothing to lose by trying the op, because had the leg stayed on, 2 weeks on, the pain would have been unbearable for her, which would have mean't 1 decision only.  Instead by the time that 2 weeks came, she'd had the op and was on the road to recovery.

There are always dogs that go over Vets expectations and are not in the 3-6 months lifespan zone that they really have to give you to cover themselves.  Maybe it might be worth asking your Vet if they could do a FNA on her lymph glands that are nearest to the tumour, to see if its metastasised into them?  If it hasn't gone there, it may have just sat in situ and minded its own business like my dogs sarcoma did.

My old girl comes out with us on our first walk of the day, and then I bring her home and take the others out for another quick blast, and apart from keeping an eye on her weight, she enjoys life and we just take things from day to day now.
Justine, Bronte, Marnie, Lottie, Dusty, Ziya, Ania and Neka :-)
And Remi, Dixie and Saffie at RB x
By Whistler (***) [gb] Date 16.11.09 13:56 GMT
Fantastic positive post made me get a lump in my throat, we feel for them more than they do for themselves by the sound of it.
By justi (*) [gb] Date 16.11.09 18:34 GMT
Just a thought but have you have a chest x ray done, bone cancer normally spreads to the lungs where mets are found, these can normally be seen on an x ray, which is what most vets advise having done, we had the x ray done before we went amp and chemo, thankfully ours were clear, though on saying that I have known others who have still gone ahead with amp even with lung mets present for pain control and have not regretted it but it is another factor that might help you with your decision
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 16.11.09 19:36 GMT Edited 16.11.09 19:39 GMT
Hi Justi,

Yes thanks for the thought, i had the chest xray straight after the shoulder xray as i know that is the most common site for the spread, i said to my vet that if we xray and their is already spread to the lungs then my decision is made for me. The xray was clear and the vet said that put the ball back in my court so to speak. Though of course there is the fact that a huge majority of lung xrays dont show the spread as it is in the early stages so he did say that although it isnt showing he does think there is a high probability that they are there which is my big concern to be honest.

I am thinking of getting him to xray her abdomen next monday before we go ahead and if that is also clear i think in my heart i would like to try, it is just everything you read on the prognosis of osteosarcoma says amputation alone gives an average survival time of 4-6 months and the big question i have to ask myself is, is that fair to Crystal.

You see because i didnt cope with my choice last year i think that makes me want to try, but i am scared that i am only trying because I dont want to feel i made the wrong choice again, but i cant put her through all that just because of how i might feel after i have pts.

It is a heart breaking situation to be in and i know all to well the guilt i could feel with either choice, i feel like i cant win whatever i choose :-(

With 10 rotts i knew i would face this one day, yet it still hit me like a ton of bricks when i saw that xray!
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By jane (**) [gb] Date 16.11.09 20:36 GMT
Just wanted to say how sorry I am. Whatever decision you make will be made out of love and that is what is important. You and Crystal are in my thoughts.
jane
By Archiebongo (**) [gb] Date 16.11.09 21:22 GMT
Mandy

can you get her CT Scanned?  this shows up any mets that are alot smaller. From what I can remember for X rays they need to be a few cm (?) but with CT scan a few mills?  (not sure on the exact figures but I know that the CT can find them alot smaller)

Like Justi (thanks Justi for all your help 2 years ago with Archie :-) ), I felt that I needed to try with Archie.  We went down the Amp and Chemo (carboplatin as well), and found he was neither up nor down after it.  I know I only got a few extra months with him, but I AM glad that i did and have no regrets. I know I did the right thing for him, and he was happy in those last few months.  From what research I've done into this, I know Archie's age was against him, but how could I put down a 3 1/2 year old without trying?  Have you looked at the cancer diet as well?  this was not an option for Archie as he was a fussy bugger anyway with his food.

Jill
x
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 16.11.09 21:51 GMT

> how could I put down a 3 1/2 year old without trying?


You see that is a big thing for me as last year i put to sleep a 13 month old without trying! Different illness but still had an option of surgery that i didnt take, which is why i feel i have to try, but my other girl who had surgery 3 weeks ago is also not doing well and has a lump on her elbow!!! So i am now concerned i could be faced with it twice at once.

Bella is booked in for a xray next tuesday but crystal is scheduled for monday, i feel i have to xray bella first as if that was bad news that would change things again :-(

My head is spinning with all these what if's

My vet is away all this week so cant speak to him anymore until monday.
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 16.11.09 22:48 GMT

> My head is spinning with all these what if's
>


As would any of us, faced with your position.  I am so, so sorry, and continue to think good thoughts, and send positive vibes.  We are all here for you.
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By DEARLADY (**) [gb] Date 17.11.09 00:29 GMT
Hi Mandy, I just wanted to say I'm thinking of you

I haven't been on here in a while, and I've read this post and my heart goes out to you

I wish you all the best, I have no advice, or experience, but wanted to let you know I am thinking of you
....the most perfect creature of Heaven....
By justi (*) [gb] Date 17.11.09 09:25 GMT
Oh mandy I really do feel for you a horrid situation to be in, if it helps at all my dog was misdiagnosed for over 6 months before we got the correct diagnosis, by which time her bone was hardly holding to gether, yet thankfully we still had no spread, it is so very hard to know what to do for the best.  6 months before I lost Bracken, I had to make the awful decision to have my three year old lab put to sleep, she had acute leukaemia, but sadly not the treatable sort, we went to the oncologist, nothing they could do for her, one week she was healthy nothing showing then three weeks later she was gone, never in a million years did I ever think I would lose her before bracken, you just never know. All you can do is go with your heart which ever way that is
By scarlettwynter (**) [gb] Date 17.11.09 10:05 GMT
I have just caught up with this and want to say how sorry I am to hear what you are going through again.
By Goldmali (****) [gb] Date 17.11.09 10:09 GMT
Mandy I am so sorry. This is so unfair on you. I wish there was an easy answer, but I can't honestly say I'd know what I myself would do if it was one of my dogs. I hope you can get some good answers from the vet which may help. HUGS.
Marianne. Dogs are not our whole lives, there are cats too!
By Noora (***) [fi] Date 17.11.09 10:35 GMT
Just wanted to say I'm so sorry about your girl and situation you are in.
It has not been easy year or so for you!
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 17.11.09 11:06 GMT

> my dog was misdiagnosed for over 6 months


I am now really concerned that Bella does have cancer after all and like you she has been misdiagnosed because of her plate i think it has all been focused on that being the problem and now that the plate has been removed she seems worse which makes me think that is because her bone is now falling apart!

Bella is very lame this morning vitually non-weight bearing, she has had the new pill trocoxil on sunday so cant have anything else for 2 weeks!!!
My vet is away (just feel like everything is against me right now) So bella will be going in on monday instead of crystal (who is currently very comforatble on pain relief for now) as if i have both my girls with this evil disease i can not operate on both it would not be fair on both them or myself i would be an emotional wreck....though i am close to that now to be honest.

Now i really am at my wits end as i think i am going to lose both of them very soon :-(
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 17.11.09 11:17 GMT
Sorry forgot to add....Thanks to you all for your continued support it means alot x
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By justi (*) [gb] Date 17.11.09 11:27 GMT
Mandy when bella had her plate removed or anytime after did they do an xray , osteosarcoma gives off a distinctive star burst pattern on xray which in 95% of cases is very hard to miss that is how it is normally diagnosed as biopsy can be hit and miss and is painful? (sadly we were in the 5 percent). Hang in there is is probably plate related with Bella and you have alot of stress right now and you mind is always going to run to the worst option its only natural.
Stay stong
By MandyC (***) [gb] Date 17.11.09 11:46 GMT
bella had an xray prior to the removal which showed problems with the screws and infection (which does show as a fuzzy blur so similar), so the plate was removed, she is due her post op xray on monday anyway but she has since been worse since removal and now has a lump which has increased in size over the past 3 weeks.

She has now been lame for a total of 10 weeks and several types of pain relief, AB's and plate removal have not improved it at all which scares me to death as if this wont settle that leaves me the same choice that i have for crystal, amputation or pts.

Cant quite believe what is happening
Harry, Alfie, Chester, Duchess, Crystal, Bella & Abbey....my beautiful kids, i miss you all so much
By Archiebongo (**) [gb] Date 17.11.09 16:15 GMT
Oh Mandy

I forgot all about Bella having problems with her leg

{{{{{hugs}}}}}

Jill
By justi (*) [gb] Date 18.11.09 10:05 GMT
(((((Mandy)))) so sorry but if it does come down to amputation, I can honestly say I know hundreds of dogs who have had amp and they have coped wonderfully, there are a very few who have taken longer than norm to adjust but these are a very small minority, having been there amp doesnt frighten my now, as it never had any negative effect on bracken you would have thought she had been born on three legs if faced with an amp situation again as long as there were  no underllaying issues I would do it in a heartbeat
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