Bella was in pain through the night and i took her in this morning for xrays, thank god she doesnt have cancer (i cried when he said it wasnt)

Her leg is much more inflammed and the arthritis is worse than before and still signs of infection, her leg is just not going to heal and we are going to amputate bella's leg next week when my regular vet is back.

We have crystal booked in monday and bella booked in tuesday, 2 legs, 2 dogs in 2 days........horrific!

The way i have been changing my mind about crystal i still have some thinking to do about her but i know deep down in my heart i want to try for both of them

Thinking of you all,
{{{hugs}}}
Teri xxx

so pleased Bella doesnt have cancer, even though she has to have amp, it is good there is no cancer. 
on amp dont be freaked if there is swelling bruising this is normal, some dont get swelling and edema (fluid) but some do, if it happens it is either absorbed naturally or can be drained if necessary. If she is going to worry at her stitches some put a t shirt on to stop this (dog ones are best because they fit better but human one will do, or you can use what our oncologist used for our dog, surgical vest (close knit ones not holey ones) you just cut a hole for the leg or legs depending if it is front or rear amp.  After this initial adrenelin burst of seeing you and coming home dont be surprised if she sleepy she will have alot of drugs in her and some drugs like tramadol can make them keen (cry), normally it is not pain making them cry but the drugs, though as normal our first thought is alway pain.  Our oncologist put a fentanal patch on bracken the day before the amp and it stayed on till three days after, that worked wonderfully for her she never needed any other pain relief which amazed me. she may need a little help getting around when she comes home, you can buy special harnesses for that, but we used a very soft towel or a wide soft scarf which worked brilliantly, we didnt need it for long.  The normal turning point for them is when the stitches or staples are removed, something seems to kick in then.  If she seems down and your able when she is mobile, pop her in the car and take her to somewhere she loves, we took bracken to the beach once the stitches were out, initially we only stayed 10 mins max but it made the world of difference to her.  If I am truthful I think the amp was harder on me than her!!! I worried about every little things, she just go on with life like dogs do.  Will keep everything crossed for you next week that everything goes smoothly
keep strong for them both

Mandy this is going to be a very tough time for you, I know when I've had a dog with a major illness it's done my head in. Hopefully you will be able to prepare a quiet cosy bed for both dogs post op. Are you able to get help for you & the dogs, with a litter on the go as well you'll need all the emotional & practical help you can get. Will be thinking of you all.

Thanks everyone again for your kind comments.

My mum lives in an annexe on our property and is full time help for me with all the dogs everyday so she will be great, my husband works away all week but is having next week off too but with the 2 girls, a litter (one who is staying) and 12 other dogs it will be hard going physically and emotionally, i must admit i am pretty scared about next week but the only other option is something i dont think me or my girls are ready for.

I am going out tommorrow to buy them both big soft new beds and they will stay in my living room together where i will sleep with them (been on the sofa for weeks with the puppies anyway so that wont feel any different!)

Thanks Justi again for your info and warnings of what to expect for the recovery.....i am petrified and i know the first couple of weeks will be difficult and very emotional.

Thank you to everyone for your continued support x

Again, I have no advice for you but wanted you to know you are in my thoughts and will be particularly on Monday.  You are handling this with great courage as this is an incredibly difficult situation to find yourself in with one dog never mind 2.  Take care x

Just thinking of you, nothing I can say that will help, but your in my thoughts and I send best wishes its all I have.

am getting doubts about my choice for crystal now as monday gets closer, i am so scared of making the wrong choice for her and causing her unneccessary pain......i dont want to be selfish.......but i also look at her and think apart from that leg she is her normal happy self, this is a very difficult decision to have to make but i do feel that whatever choice i make i could have serious regrets.

I am very frightened

Mandy I can well understand how you feel. When my dog had a spine op I was told because the area they operate in there was a risk she could bleed to death. BUT - I had to take the chance as she couldn't get better as she was. It was one of the worst days of my life waiting for the phone call to say she'd pulled through. Nowdays vets are very good at pain control mine give pre & post op pain control so your girl(s) might be 'out of it' for a few days but as other people have posted their dogs have walked out of the surgery oblivious to the fact there's a leg missing! I think if you decided not to have the op & had them PTS you'd be saying "what if"...

I'm sorry, all I can say to you is that what you are going through is so unfair and I'm wish to send you support and strength. You sound like a very caring person and I'm sure you heart will guide you into the right decision, with a vet that you have faith in aswell.

Hi Mandy,

Just caught this, can't believe it, sending best wishes and thinking of you, Crystal and Bella ((((( love and Hugs))))))

Dxx

Hi Mandy - having second thoughts about any major decision is only normal, especially with one so fraught with emotions
Thinking of you today,
blessings Teri xxx

Hi Mandy
My thoughts and prayers are with you all this morning. I hope all goes well.
I can only add that a friend has just had a hind leg taken off her Bernie with cancer and his recovery from the op has been amazingly quick and painfree. He is still to have chemo but it looks good at the moment and she reports that as soon as the pain from the leg had gone he was like a new dog (Only two weeks post op now) I have heard from some who have had chemo on a dog that it is more a "containment" dose not a cure and they suffer much less than humans with sickness and feeling unwell. I have another aquaintance who's Goldie is on a long term continuing dose of chemo for a very nasty recurring mast cell type cancer and he copes with it fine. Fingers toes and paws crossed for you I hope the outcome is good.
Aileen and the Girlies. xxx

Fingers & toes crossed and all best wishes sent..

Thinking of you this morning, hang in there it is natural to be scared, have everything crossed here for a swift and uneventful recovery, I am sure she will amaze you once the painful leg is gone.

Well after a very hard weekend and no sleep last night, i took crystal in this morning and after another very long discussion with my vet we brought her back home again. He was not comfortable with the op and said he could see i was not fully commited or sure about it either and that because she has to have the whole shoulder removed there is risk of the wound breaking down because of such a big void.

He said that in his opinion we would keep her comfortable on plt tabs, as she is very comfortable at the moment and could stay that way for a few months yet, he also said what i already know that it is almost guaranteed to have spread somewhere even if it doesnt show on xray.

i feel i have let her down by not going through with it but trust my vet so much that i want to be guided by him as i kow he has crystals best interest 100% at heart, i now feel even more confused and completely exhausted from the emotions

This week she has been very comfortable with the new pain relief plan and that also made me feel she would be happier left alone.

Poor Mandy. Don't worry, you haven't let her down in any way. She's comfortable physically, she knows you love her, and as far as she's concerned that's all that matters.

I completely agree with JG - the most important things are that Crystal is pain free and deeply loved, both of which she is   

It's so difficult to weigh up what we feel we should do against what we possibly could do but you're doing the right thing by following your professional's advice.  No matter what personal opinion or others' experiences are, it's who knows any dog most intimately - YOU - and who knows the prognosis best - your vet - that what counts most for your precious girl right now.

Chin up Mandy, it's hard on you I know but at least for Crystal right now it's not.

Megga hugs and prayers for you both,
Teri xxx

Im sure you have done whats right she is in no pain so enjoy her with you whilst you can.

still thinking of you, it is very obvious how much you love your dogs, please don't think you are letting them down (easy for me to say I know!)

take care x

Mandy, I have been reading this thread over the past few days and am so sad for you.  I think you have said the most important thing - that you trust your vet - in the days, weeks and months to come, remember that.  No-one likes making decisions regarding their beautiful dogs, but I'm sure you will always do what is right for her, again with your vets guidance.
We had a young bitch who probably should have died within 24 hours of birth, but we worked so hard to keep her with us and thought we'd won the battle until at 12 months she developed a heart problem.  It was awful to see her so lethargic and sad.  We had spoken at great lengths with our vet about deciding when the time was right to let her go - it was awful, but I know the time was right and she is no longer suffering.  So hard to do - I'm crying again now even after more than 15 months.  They make such an impression on our lives.
Don't know what else to say really - just keep her happy while she is still with you.

Mandy I haven't commented on this thread because I have strong views on invasive treatments.  Just because we can doesn't always mean that we should!  It's not always best for the dog but placates human emotions.

I went to a seminar some years ago with an eminent oncologist passionately talking about the cancer treatments now available for dogs.  She was a lovely lady who was very sincere in her work and beliefs.  But when I asked how long was the average life extended with all these treatments she excitedly said 3-4 months!  I was shocked when you consider the trauma of taking a dog who doesn't feel brilliant away from their familiar loving home, to be pulled around by strangers, isolated in a crate in a strange environment and then feel like sh*t through the recovery period for just a few weeks before they started to go downhill again.   That was the day that I made the decision that if any of my dogs was seriously ill, then I would think what was best for them and not myself.  I would keep them pain free and comfortable until I couldn't do that anymore.

I think that you are very lucky to have a true dog loving Vet Mandy, who is supporting both your dogs and you in the way that he thinks is sincerely for the best, rather than lining his pocket and pulling your girl around just for the sake of it.

That doesn't make this time any easier for you but I fully support your joint decision.  Enjoy every day and spoil her just as much as you can.

Thank you so much for your reply, i am sooo upset and confused.

> Just because we can doesn't always mean that we should!

I really am a strong believer in this too and this is why i struggled so hard with trying to make my choice, as if it was just about how i feel the leg would be off!
i think last year's loss is still very much with me and i know i wanted to amputate because i wanted to try as last year when i chose not to try with a very young dog i found it hard to cope with my choice after i had her pts and was terrified of feeling that deep regret again, but then i thought more and i dont want to put crystal through something (which very likely wont prolong her life at all) just so i dont feel guilty for not trying...if that makes sense!

My other girl Bella is going in tommorrow and my vet is happy with her amputation and she doesnt have a killer disease, her joint is just never going to heal so she will be happier without the leg.
My vet is brilliant and he has always guided me based on my dogs needs, never his pocket which is such an important factor in having a vet you trust.

Of course there is still a small part of me thats says what if it hasnt spread and by leaving her leg on i am actually giving her a death sentance, it is so hard i feel i just cant win whatever i choose.

Thanks for your support to everyone who is helping me through this........not thats its over as there is more emotions tommorrow....i havent slept for 3 days!!!

Mandy you have to go with your heart. if it isnt right for you it isnt, it doesnt mean you are wrong, all any of us can do is go the path we truely think is best for our dogs, what is right for some is not right for others, in truth the is no wrong decision because any decision we make we make out of love for our animal and that can never be wrong. Make your decision, have no regrets, you know your dog best we dont, all we can do is support you which ever decision you make

You have definitely not let her down and I have to say that IF I was in your position I would of done what you have done.  Let her thoroughly enjoy what life she has left.

Thank you both, i am still in tears and still torn as to if i made a mistake today.

Then i look at bella who is going in tommorrow for amputation and feel like i am trying harder for her than i am for crystal?

I really appreciate all the support, it is hard to get that same understanding from people or family who dont have or love their dogs quite like i and most on here do.

I just want to feel i am doing the BEST I CAN for my girls, but one for surgery and not feels wrong in someway

Have just got back from vets again, bella is having her amp right now.....i feel absolutely sick about what is happening to her but in this case my vet was happy to take her leg off as it is a completely different situation.

I do feel very confused still about it all to be honest but can only go with my vet as he is amazing

Am dreading picking her up i know i will be devastated when i see her

thinking of you Mamdy hope Bella is ok she will soon be on the  mend,sending hugs to you all.

Sheilaxxx

just got her home, oh god i was devastated when i see her, she is just sleeping it all off now but i took it very hard.

Tommorrow i will see more of how she will cope. i can only hope and pray my choice was the right one

Mandy you have made the right choices - believe in them and your vet, take each day as it comes and know that the decisions you have made have all been for the right reasons. We can only do what seems to be right at the time and nobody can tell the future - so have no regrets just enjoy your time with your dogs. Sending lots of healing thoughts your way.

Glad to hear she is home. You are having a difficult time but the decisions you are making are based on love and what is best for your dogs and no one could ask any more than that. I am thinking of you.
jane

So glad she is home,its very hard for you,she will be running about in no time bless her,
lots of love to all of you xx

I am sure she will amaze you, in a few weeks time, I  know I made more of a fuss about brackens amp than she did, she had no guilt, she had no worries, she just knew the awful pain had gone, I on the other hand was a wreck, they are much braver than us.  She may be up and around right away or it may take a couple of weeks, the med may make her cry, it is all normal, she may get swelling she may not, but it all will pass you just have to hang in there and be there for her which I know you are

Thanks everyone.

Bella had a comfortable night with more sleep than me, i watched her like a hawk!  She is not in the pain i imagined and is happily eating and has been up on her legs. I am supporting her in a sling when we go out for toilets at the moment while she is learning to adjust her balance and weight as she has fell a couple of times and that breaks my heart. My vet rang this morning to see how her first night was too.

It is very swollen this morning but i did expect that. When i cuddled her last night and asked her if she was ok she done what she always did when i speak to her and she went to give me her paw (could see the shoulder move towards me) that really broke my heart and a tear ran down my face!  I was expecting her to cry as she did cry a bit when she had the plate removed but she hasnt cried once so i think that shows how painful the bone in the leg was for her.

I am trying to act as normal as i can so she doesnt pick up on me being anxious but just spoiling her and crystal rotten.

It is just so final i must admit inside i am frightened that she wont adjust or cope because she is 7 and half years old which for her breed is getting on, but i know it is very early days.

When i cuddled her last night and asked her if she was ok she done what she always did when i speak to her and she went to give me her paw (could see the shoulder move towards me) that really broke my heart and a tear ran down my face!

My Ruby does this and it made me very sad

Mandy you have been so brave in what was 2 hard decisions with both Crystal and Bella. Don't feel guilty, everybody knows you have done what is right for each girl and you too.

I am pleased that Bella is doing ok after her op.  Remi was the same age at the time of her amputation and after a few weeks of building her other leg muscles up, she has done very well.  Plus once the surgery pain was gone, she wasn't carrying a dead weight about either which also must be very painful.

The swelling did get worse before it got better, but aswell as the painkillers and ab's, I was giving her Arnica too, which is supposed to help with bruising.

You've coped so admirably well in a very stressful situation, and I take my hat off you xxxxxxx

I haven't posted as really not sure what more I could add, but keep strong and enjoy them for every day they are with you.

Bella is doing well, she is up and about and was happily wagging her stumpy today, she is eating and seems comfortable.

The swelling and bruising is very scary, her shoulder is huge and she is multicoloured!  I know this is normal but it is hard to see it on your own dog. Did you get alot of swelling and bruising with Remi? How long before the swelling started to improve?

My vet is not concerned and there is no horrible discharge or smell, she does have quite a lot of fluid sitting in the skin below the amputation and i am hoping that will just re-absorb so she doesnt have to have it drained. I have to hope and pray now that my girlie with go from strength to strength and heal without any problems.

Crystal is very comfortable and has no limp at all so hopefully her pills will keep her that way for a while yet, she is feeling fit enough to steal a huge rack of ribs from the porch yesterday (raw, for the dogs) and she thoroughly enjoyed the lot!

Thanks to everyone for all the support through what has been and will continue to be a difficult time it really does mean alot x

Aww Mandy thats good news about both girls.  

Yes with Remi, we did have alot of swelling and it went every colour under the sun with bruising.  The old blood collects between pockets in the muscles that have been sewn together, so that makes it look worse.  I gently massaged her thigh too in circular movements, to try and help disperse it,  obviously without going too close to the wound.  We had a bad bleed, when that dog knocked her over, but it was old blood so it wasn't as bad as we thought.  She turned the corner dramatically once the swelling had gone down. I was shocked at how much blood came out though tbh so it could take a few weeks for it to start going down.

Glad to hear Crystal is on good form too!  She deserved those ribs though

Thanks, she has had some fluid drain out of the wound tonight and is a little panty, the swelling is rock hard and i am sure she is just a little uncomfortable from the pressure build up from the fluid.

Hopefully like Remi once that fluid has settled or drained out she will feel and look alot more comfortable.

I think i am just suprised by how much swelling there is, it is big!
Thanks for the quick reply x

I wouldnt worry about it leaking abit Mandy tbh, as long as its not smelly or green etc.  You may even see some old clots too. I think in situations like this, better out than in!

Once the swelling has gone down, and she hasn't got that extra weight of the fluid either, she will be back to her normal self in no time, and pain free!

She's doing really well by the sound of it

It does sound normal, but it hard to watch on your own dog, bracken had lots of colourful brusing, she was lucky and didn't get much swelling but her wound was dressed and compressed for a few days but only by a surgical vest which may have helped. Hang in there it will all be worth it in the end

arnica can help with bruising but dont get it near the wound.

Hi,

Bella is doing well and the wound is healed, bruising gone and swelling and fluid gone too, so was very pleased with her progress.
However today she has given a little whimper twice when she has moved to sit up and i dont think it was anything to do with her shoulder?

She is well in herself and is eating and toileting normally, she gets very tired very quick though?
I did read something on the web (not always a good thing to do!) about phantom pain? any thoughts?

She is going to the vet tommorrow to hopefully put my mind at rest, i was hoping that maybe her muscles are a little sore in her other leg as that leg is working so much harder than it ever has had to before and she is 7.5 so may have a little arthritis?

Any thoughts or experiences would be very much appreciated. My mum thinks i am just worrying about every little thing with her and has said that i may make her anxious if she picks up on it from me but she did definately whimper twice today

She also has little bouts of panting but seems happy in herself..........just so worried all the time it is such a big op for a dog of her breed and age!

Thanks in advance for any replies x

Good news about how well she's healing! Her other leg will get tired more easily now; a dog's back legs take 40% of its weight and its front legs take 60% (head and neck are heavier than a tail!) so now her one front leg is carrying 60% all by itself, which till she gets used to it will be very tiring. Hopefully she's just feeling stiff and tired which has made her whimper when she moves - I'm sure your vet will be able to put your mind at rest tomorrow.

> a dog's back legs take 40% of its weight and its front legs take 60% (head and neck are heavier than a tail!

I've often wondered about this and if this is the case it would explain why I only need to cut my rotts front toe nails.  BUT, I only need to cut my staffy's back ones - bizarre!

Thanks Jan,

She has now been panting for over 2 hrs constantly, but when i took her to the garden for a wee and poo she was happy enough out there and wagging her tail, then came straight back in had a drink, laid down immediately and started panting again. Have offered her food and she is happy to eat too?????

She is licking at the stump alot tonight too and moving it alot more than i have seen her do since the op, think she has discomfort there but cant really see why?

Will keep a close eye on her tonight and off to vets first thing tommorrow........hopefully i am over anxious and she is just having an off day

Mandy

Archie suffered alot from phantom pain. his lasted from what I can remember a few weeks gradually becoming less intense and the frequency dropping off.  Check with your vet as to how much pain meds she can get.  I know Archie could take up to 3 times the recommended dose (on the intrustions of the vet I hasten to add) and I was told to keep him quite dopped up to start off with and wean him off gradually.  He was off pain meds within 3 weeks of his amp.

Jill

it does seem fairly normal, the body had to slowly adjust to the new way of balancing, and muscles can get tired and sore, some dogs get phantom pain, but not all, it seems when her mind is off it (out in the garden) she is better, I know I took bracken out to her favorite places in the car in the early stages, let her out for a sniff about for five mins then back home, did the 3 or 4 times a day, it helped her get over the early stages and perked  her up no end.  Glad the swelling has gone down and healing is good, it always amazes me how fast they heal from the amp. I know its hard but try no to fuss over her too much as it sends a message something must be wrong, I made this big mistake with bracken over thunder and fireworks, and she always hated them, now I just ignore it all and the dogs are much better.

Thanks for the replies

I took all bella's stiches out yesterday morning (a couple were very tight and embedded, from all the swelling) and she was seen by my vet last night who was very pleased with the wound and how she was doing. after telling him about her little episode he said she probably has some stump pain and that should slowly decrease and subside over the next few weeks. She shook all the way in the car (doesnt normally do that) so i think alot of it is anxiety as once in the vets she was skipping around and wagging her tail!!!!!

She is much better today and alot more relaxed so hopefully it was just a bit of a down day but at least i know now and wont worry if it happens again (yeah right!)

Crystal is doing well and is enjoying playing with her daughter that we have kept, for now she is happy and i will have to just take one day at a time, i must say that bella has done so well with her amp that i did start to re-think my decision but she is pain free and very bubbly at the moment so i think it would be unfair to put her through anything at this stage.......if things change i will think on it again, only if her chest xrayed clear that is.

Thanks for everyones help and support throughout this very stressful time it really is very much appreciated

great to hear things are going better than expected.  give them both a hug from me (a gentle one for Bella) xx