i have looked all over the kc website but cannot find an answer to my question. to cut it short, can i add someone with THEIR reg bitch onto my affix for the period of a litter (bitch owner has no affix) so that puppies can be reg with an affix and then take bitch owner off my affix. puppies will have my affix but still be reg under owner of bitch, and she is still recognised breeder as the bitch is in her name only? is this right? or will kc not allow this to happen?

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/383/form11.pdf

You can add someone else, but it isn't cheap

sorry, i wasnt clear what i meant. i know you can add someone, but would the kc get arsey and remove the kennel names of puppies if they suspected that breeder was only put on the affix for the time it took to register the pups?

You would normally use loan of bitch, it is just £20 and commonly done. However YOU will then be the breeder. I'm pretty certain there is some way around it though as there are dogs in my breed with two joint breeders using ONE kennel name belonging to just one of the breeders. Why not e-mail the KC or phone them and ask?
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/387/form15.pdf

You simply complete a 'Loan of bitch agreement.  the resulting puppies then have you as the breeder and are registered with your affix. 

It is not expensive, much cheaper than transferring the bitches ownership back and forth.

It is wise to make such an agreement cover two seasons in  case the bitch misses.

My 'F' litter were bred from a friends bitch with this arrangement, the bitch remained registered in their ownership but for the purposes of the litter she belonged to me.

i think i'll ring kc and ask them, i was considering loan agreement but i really dont think bitch owner will agree to that, to be honest i cant blame her, after all that hard work i think she'd like some recognition, its her first litter too, she's a pet bitch but would do incredibly well if shown, just that owner isnt interested in showing which is why she is a pet and owner has no affix. also naturally she wants bitch to stay with her as would i if the shoe was on the other foot.
with all this above i thought that putting her on my affix would suit everyone, she'd be the breeder, she'd be "owner" of puppies until forever homes, she'd have say over everything (legally) all that i would have a litter reg under my affix.
would bitch have to be in joint names for puppies to have "our" affix? or could she stay entirely in current owners name?

There is nothing to stop you buying a puppy from her and adding your affix.

For example her breeder registers the pups, yous is called Rosie Lee, and you add your affix of Tetley, so she becomes Rosie Lee of Tetley, job done.

The rest of the litter would all have to be registered with two word names and no affix as are many.

This is by no means said in a nasty way but why is she breeding her pet dog if she is not interested in having her own line continuing somewhere with her breeding?
If she keeps a bitch puppy she might want to continue and breed of her young girl too(in few years time) so it would make sense to just get her own kennel name, No?
In the end many of the best breeders out there have only bred few selected litters under their name ...

Of course if she is breeding for others to have the line to continue with and is not interested in continuing it herself it would be little bit pointless to get an affix... So maybe the loan of the bitch agreement would be the way to go if you both want them under an affix.

Hi she could take out a seperate  interest in your affix which would mean she could be the owner and breeder without having to have your name added to the bitch however it will be as expensive for her as would taking out an affix in her own right.

As Brainless has mentioned the puppy breeder does not need to have an affix.
The puppy does not need an affix(breeders) to be a good puppy. In my opinion, if it is good enough it will win regardless of wether the breeder had an affix or not.
There have been many a good dog with no affix(kennel name as they are now called). The late Reg Parsons never had an affix but his dogs names were RP ie Ro Poth.

i know its not necessary for an affix, i just wondered if it were possible to do what i mentioned. i ain't typing it again lol it took ages to explain.

the idea of RP is a good idea tho, although it wont be RP, been trying to think of litter themes for ages for her. Didnt want to give her my ideas that i have reserved for myself lol.

she is a good quality bitch and although she has no show record, it certainly isnt a reflection on her quality, (if im honest im quite jealous ) but owner has isnt interested in showing, but thats by the by in this case.

just didnt know if the kc had any loop holes regarding adding someone to affix then removing them later on

xx 

Tanya it has no relevence to the show worlsd having an affix. I must say i would not like my bitch having puppies and them having someone elses affix, but this is just my opinion.
But if i was concidering buying a puppy i would be far more concerned about the health of the sire and dam

> i know its not necessary for an affix, i just wondered if it were possible to do what i mentioned. i ain't typing it again lol it took ages to explain.

It isn't and many working gundog owners do not bother with an affix.

One other way around this especially if this is a one off litter, would be to get you friend to register the pups and then transfer them all to you, you can then add your affix onto the end of the name. All the pups will have an affix on their names. This has been done by breeders before and certainly I know one in my breed who did for every litter born where the owner did not have an affix and in some cases even when they did. After that it is up to you whether you transfer them back to her or she just sells them and you sign the transfer papers. That way she is still named on the registration as the breeder but the pups will have your affix and if one does end up being a major success your affix will be seen.

I agree Abraham.  Tanya there are quite a dogs in  few dogs in our breed get shown without an affix.  Surely if the bitch owner who is the one having the litter is desperate for them to have an affix then she could put her hand in her pocket and get her own.

just wondering why you want to do this?

and if one does end up being a major success your affix will be seen.

     dont like the sound of that

> dont like the sound of that

Why surely that is why breeders have affixes in the first place, these are basically a 'trade mark'. 

Breeders are proud of the dogs they produce and like to be able to link their breeding and link the dogs to themselves in an easy way.

An affix allows a line to be easily identified and traced, like a great family name/dynasty.

I am as proud or more proud of dogs that I have breed doing well for their owners, as it is my Dogs family name (affix) on them.

wasnt my idea, i was asked if i wouldnt mind, just didnt know if it would be able to do it, like you say it is my "trademark" so to speak and even if she is still "breeder" if anything bad should happen, everyone will remember my "involvement" as it is "my" affix.

Hi, As a affix doesn't cost a huge amount, could your friend not get her own to use?

if anything bad should happen, everyone will remember my "involvement" as it is "my" affix.
You're absolutely right there!

> trademark" so to speak and even if she is still "breeder" if anything bad should happen, everyone will remember my "involvement" as it is "my" affix.

This is the other side of of the possible "great success" which you obviously have spotted, but if you are happy with the bitch and the owner many breeders will do this as a one off. I don't usually bother with this as I am sure the owner can find ways of identifying puppies.

Why surely that is why breeders have affixes in the first place, these are basically a 'trade mark'. 

Breeders are proud of the dogs they produce and like to be able to link their breeding and link the dogs to themselves in an easy way.

An affix allows a line to be easily identified and traced, like a great family name/dynasty.

I am as proud or more proud of dogs that I have breed doing well for their owners, as it is my Dogs family name (affix) on them.

i have no problem with this i just dont like the idea of someone getting credit for success of lets say a champion dog that had nothing to do with them other than their affix was used

Hi, I havent been here for a while but just wanted to reply to this thread. We have an affix on our girls name, she had her 1st litter last year..2 of her pups are being shown with good results and I am very proud that they have my name attached to them:)
I wouldnt want anyone elses name on my pups (no offence meant in any way at all), thats just my feeling.

Why on earth would someone wish to have their litter with someone elses Affix for the reason you have given, it is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of Tanya.

It's like someone having a baby and saying I like your surname can I use it on my baby?

The lady in question needs to get her own affix, it is her litter, her dam what does it have to do with you? Your not the breeder or have any intentions over this litter or any pups in it, how ridiculous, you don't give your affix to puppies which are nothing to do with you, unless as already stated the bitch is on loan agreement. I'm pretty sure the KC would not allow it otherwise and quite rightly so, I dare say they think it quite bizarre.

The whole point of an affix is that it is unique to that breeder and is in recognition of that breeders own success, careful line production and wins, not someone elses.

I thought I had heard it all. I can't believe you would even think of doing such a thing.

i never said i was doing it before you jump down my throat any further, i was asking if it were possible!

I apologise I didn't mean for my post to sound so curt. As the Dam is not registered under you in any way shared ownership, loaned or otherwise quite rightly it is not possible as the pups are not in any breeding programme associated with yourself and therefore your Affix.

The KC will give your friend their affix if she does not wish to have one of her own.

apology accepted. i was really worried you would all turn against me lol. she wondered if it would be possible as she was using my dog. anyway its by the by now as i talked her out of it as i cant bear the responsibility of being associated in the ring if anything were to go wrong x

I think you have made a wise choice...
Saying that, if something were to go wrong you would be associated with it anyway as your male is the other half of the mating.
If anything was to go wrong many people are quick top point at the sire.
This is why it is so very important to make sure you know the lines not only behind of your boy but behind any girlfriends too(not saying you don't)...
Anybody with a "half a brain" would not only look at the affix but what dogs stand behind the litter and what dogs are behind those etc...

yeah i understand that i'm naturally very picky about who my boy goes to. and have researched her lines probably more than bitch owner has, which i always think is the best approach... stud owners should be more knowledgable in my opinion.