hi i need some advice this is my bitch's second pregnancy she is 5 yrs, her first litter needed help from the vet (no surgery was needed) as the first 2 puppies were very large and died 4 normal sized puppies were fit and well, is it normal for puppies to be abnormally large and do second litters generally come easier, she is due in a few days and we have informed the vet so they can intervene if need be. p.s this will be her last litter either way.

How many matings did she have? I was told that the larger pups come from the first mating, the smaller from the second. Don't know if there is any truth to this though.

she was mated twice with the stud, i have heard that also but i not sure if its true either. i hope she has an easier labour the last one was so stressful. bless her.

> i hope she has an easier labour the last one was so stressful. bless her.

Then why breed from her again?

>> i hope she has an easier labour the last one was so stressful. bless her.

> Then why breed from her again?

Just what i was thinking

Peanuts

because the vet said it is very comman to struggle on first litter, and they are the experts.

> they are the experts

actually that is rarely the case, unless they are breeders themselves.  They only see problem whelpings when their intervention is needed.

As to the wisdom of breeding again, assuming that her mother and other female relatives were problem free whelpers, there is no reason to expect problems again.

I am assuming that in the first litter there was nothing of the quality you homed for in the right sex, otherwise I woudl not ahve bred from her again in your position.

> because the vet said it is very comman to struggle on first litter, and they are the experts

Sorry, this is just not true.

> because the vet said it is very comman to struggle on first litter, and they are the experts.

I've only bred 3 litters but never once have had to have veterinary intervention besides an Oxytocin injection at the tail-end.  As Brainless says, vets rarely see the straightforward easy whelpings just the occasional problem ones.  

> because the vet said it is very comman to struggle on first litter, and they are the experts.

Experts i don't think so,

My freinds bitch has to be rushed in for a c section yesterday, because the puppies were slightly blue because of the anesthetic which nearly always happens , instead of working on the puppies the vet said they had a funny blue skin colour and put them all to sleep, she had traved to finland for that mating all 10 puppies were perfect in everyway but vet had no experiance.

Peanuts

> instead of working on the puppies the vet said they had a funny blue skin colour and put them all to sleep,

That is so sad, what a waste of all those little lives.......the owner must be so upset

As for vets being experts, definately not.....my vet is fab with breeding but he used to breed himself, i will be lost when he finally retires as he is a rarety believe me.

She's so upset and gutted

Peanuts

"She's so upset and gutted"

What a terrible thing to do! How can anyone ever trust a vet after reading this!?
It's frightening how little vets usually know abot breeding and whelping!

In answer to the question in one of the first posts. The diffence in size in pups is not because of
two or more matings. The foetuses will before they get attached to the walls of the uterus, wait for each other.
The development is stopped for all to reach the same level. It's all regulated by hormones. I know it's said
to be because some pups are "older" than the rest. But that's not the case.

> She's so upset and gutted
>

It's unbelievable.  She must be distraught.  It has shocked me.  And I guess she will be changing vets. 

I am so glad that I haven't had that sort of experience.  I recently had a bitch that was having really strong contractions, but was getting nowhere.  It was out of hours (always is.)  And the vet wanted to x-ray, and see if pups were too big.  No, size was fine, but two pups were side by side (looked like siamese twins) in the one horn.

When the vet called the nurse down (they sleep at the hospital) I said, take care of her, even if you don't get any live pups.  At this point, my girl hadn't been put under.  The nurse said, what do you mean no live pups.  I'm here to make sure they're ok!  Well, I got three - there was one by herself in the other horn, and they were all fine (if rather noisy!)

So, not all practises are the same.  But I feel so, so sorry for your friend, after all her waiting and all her hopes.