Hello all!!!
This is a terrible post to write for my first post on here but I would value some of your experiences please.
Although I am an ex VN (from many many moons ago) and have bred dogs before (responsibly) this whelping has me somewhat baffled and embarrassed at the moment.
I have a bitch that will be 9 weeks between 28th Jan and 2nd Feb!!!  I am mortified to say that this was an unplanned mating. I have one other brood bitch and my stud dog but this particular bitch is too young for my own personal taste to mate...However... I had to go away for a few days to see my gran before she died and a very trusted and knowledgable friend house and dog sat for me and swears blind that my dog and bitch did not meet while I was away. I explained to her a couple of weeks ago that I am not mad with her and that accidents can happen but I just needed to know so I knew what I was dealing with but she promises me that it didn't happen. WELL SHE GOT PREGNANT!!!!

When I came back nothing seemed out of order with my bitch...her vulva wasn't swollen and absolutely no symptoms appeared until almost 2 weeks ago when her nipples started swelling and over about 3 days she seemed to magically produce a belly. So straight to the vets and she scanned in pup and it has to be my boy (or a pole-vaulter) as we have a 7 foot fence around my garden with a 3 foot drop on the other side.

My queries are that for the past 10 days her temperature has been holding fairly steady between 37.7 and 37.9 (3 X a day) but yesterday morning it dropped to 37.2 and has been holding at that since.
Today she has been sleeping a lot (almost all day) and breathing heavily and deeply but not panting and shaking and she is not anxious, restless or distressed.
She has had a few looks and scratches at belly this evening but nothing excessive.
She also wants to go out about every hr for a wee.
She isn't off her food.
Lots of puppy movement and they have dropped further back.

To me she looks like she may be in 1st stage but my other bitch is textbook...Every symptom and correct temp. and timing but I have a feeling this one may be a sneaky little thing and give me virtually no real notice.

My previous mating with my other bitch was put on hold for a year until hubby and I settled into our new house and 8 pups were reserved before the mating. Everything was planned meticulously but it all fell apart when she needed an emergency C-Section in the middle of the night (as these dogs of ours love to do)!!! And ended up in intensive care 3 days later with an infection leaving me to hand-rear the little monsters. So I'm thinking that knowing my luck and with my last mating so well planned and organised and it still went pear-shaped I need to be really on the ball with this girl.

So...have you had any bitches that have shown very little symptoms until whelping.

TREAT YOURSELF TO A HOT CHOCOLATE AND BISCUIT IF YOU GOT TO THE END!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would expect her temp to drop more than that but, that said, I've had one next to me on the sofa fast asleep and there was a pup...just slid out! I promptly woke the bitch up and got on with the whelping.

Dont beat yourself up...I'm a bad mother too. I went out for dinner to the neighbours when my bitch had 8 days to go ( one mating only) - bitch was normal, ate her dinner, put to bed and we went out for 4 hours. When we got back there was a puppy in her bed!

All the signs we look for are just the average, the norm and, as we know, some bitches dont conform to the norm.

Hope all goes well despite unplanned - you can make it up to her   ( hope it was your boy !)

Thanks Toolz....The bit about the pup sliding out while your bitch was asleep was quite shocking, I never thought that would happen!!!!
Well its 4.30am and symptoms are exactly the same but temp. is now 37.5?    I've been awake all night and have hardly taken my eyes off her but I'm going to try to have a snooze on the sofa as I'm pregnant myself and feel terrible.

hi sleep ,my girls temps drop to 35.5 can even be lower it just depends if i chatch it at right time ,so her temp might drop more yet and even go bad up then drop and stay there then she will whelp ,but not all girls are the same are they lol ...but good luck x

a very trusted and knowledgable friend house and dog sat for me and swears blind that my dog and bitch did not meet while I was away. I explained to her a couple of weeks ago that I am not mad with her and that accidents can happen but I just needed to know so I knew what I was dealing with but she promises me that it didn't happen. WELL SHE GOT PREGNANT

Does she still say they didn't mate? Mind you not wishing to scare you a 7ft wall is nothing to an amorous dog, you may well have a surprise when the litter arrives. Fingers crossed this isn't the case, but seems strange that your friend still will not confess even with a pregnant dog in her face.

I would go by what you see rather than the temp, it is a good indication but doesn't beat those all important signs. Hopefully the whelping will go off without a hitch, but yes some bitches don't go by the book, (at all) some can just whelp without any real panting, shaking etc, and very quietly and secretly, whilst I was being mentored this happend, so rely on your instincts and keep one eye firmly on her now as unfortunately you do not have her mating date, luckily your experienced so forget the text book and trust yourself. Make sure you have a torch ready for evening garden watch too, that first pup can pop out anywhere.

Hope this whelping is a breeze for you and your girl.

Thanks girls. I've been setting my phone's alarm for every 20mins and had a couple of little snoozes but WOW I feel so tired and sick. Whelping and lack of sleep is bad enough... and pregnancy and sickness and tiredness is also bad enough... but both together is definately not recommended!!!

I've had a cry over my girl as I've always had a few rules I deem as absolutely unbreakable as far as breeding goes and one of them is making sure that a bitch is fully mature both physically and mentally and at peak fitness before she is mated.  My girl isn't. She was a new addition and quite markedly underweight when I got her so was on a strict feeding and fitness regime and she is still so puppyish in her ways. I'ts heartbreaking to see my girl going through this especially as the weight has just dropped off her in the past week and you can see every vertebrae. Even though she was put on dry puppy food and tripe with a spoonful of oil 5 times a day she started picking at her food and has continued to lose weight. Blood tests last week came back clear so it must be down to her being in pup so young. I feel like I've failed  and abused her.

Well she has had a few digs and nesting circles while I've been typing this so Its looking like its going to be fairly soon. I'm usually so excited at whelping but I'm not this time as the pups at the moment are unknown. I'm praying that when the first one arrives and if it is my boys I can get a bit of joy and excitement back for the rest of the whelp.

as the weight has just dropped off her in the past week and you can see every vertebrae.

That's very scary, no wonder you are worried. It's such a shame with her not being in tip top condition that this has happened to her, but don't beat yourself up, you found out too late otherwise you could have ended the pregnancy, all you can do now is ride with it and do your best to get good food down her to keep her body going whilst the pups are draining her resources. If she is an adolescent this and also the fact that some lines are very thin too may be why she is underweight. It goes without saying you having experience as a VN to keep an eye on her vitals if she is so thin, but it may have no factor at all, she may just be a thin dog by genetics, you may never get weight on her.

Re: her picking at her food. TBH many bitches do lose their appetite during the last 1-2 weeks of being in whelp, but we all have our little tricks, have you tried soaking the puppy food and adding chicken or minced meat to it, would that tempt her? I've even done sneaky things like rolling mince meat into balls and adding dry puppy food inside it and all around it, surprising how much dry food you can add, my girl wolfs it down, I've always found ways to make her eat well whilst in whelp.

You'll hopefully have the chance to fill her with good food, once the whelping is over, (my girl always has goats milk and egg yolk morning and evening too) try not to fret too much,  just keep trying, I would try to hand feed little and often as well if she is becoming picky, anything to keep her body fuelled.

Oh, won't you be glad when this is all over, try not to let your tiredness get you down and start over-thinking everything, your there which is great and being an ex VN you'll be on top of everything,  being a zombie is part of breeding, match sticks and coffee will keep you going.

Phew, I never knew they could show so little signs! My own bitch only had a few visible contractions and a small whimper when she had her puppies, but having them asleep? That's impressive! I hope all goes well, like others have said don't beat yourself up, you didn't know she was in whelp and you'll do the best possible for her.

> but having them asleep? That's impressive

It was a small flat little thing but a puppy none the less.

Coincidently, when I was 'in whelp' and during delivery of my only child, the midwife woke me up to say " dont you want to be awake when your baby is born?" I couldn't feel any contractions at all.....but I did notice him emerging.....OOOOh that did smart...... but then he was a big 'un.

I'm sticking with dogs!!!

> So...have you had any bitches that have shown very little symptoms until whelping.
>

Yes.  4 days before due date to one mating just as she was going over (she had progesterone tests as wouldn't stand previous season).

All my girls sleep in the bedroom with me for the last week.

In the morning she went for a pee, and then dashed into the house in to the crate in the kitchen and started to lick madly, and it sounded slobbery, if that makes sense.

Next thing there were feet sticking out of her vulva and I rushed her upstairs PDQ where I had to hold her down as she wanted to do the wall of death around the bedroom.  This was an almost 4 year old first time Mum.

The rest of the labour was rather slow, Oxytocin for last pup whixh was dead giving us 4 healthy pups.

Her next two litters were textbook, signs of labour about 12 hours before and pups every 20 minutes, with no Vet intervention.

> weight has just dropped off her in the past week and you can see every vertebrae. Even though she was put on dry puppy food and tripe with a spoonful of oil 5 times a day she started picking at her food and has continued to lose weight.

I whelped a bitch for a friend and she had enteritis when she arrived and would not eat, she was like a h at rack.

I force fed (bit down the throat stroke and swallow) her 4 times a day with soaked puppy food (she didn't object) but wouldn't eat herself, and had to continue with this until pups were weaned, it was very strange.

Unfortunately due to the poor condition at whelping she had very low calcium levels and after whelping her first pup everything ground to a halt, and she needed a C section.  She also needed Calcium supplementation through the lactation.

I know Its awful when you can't get them to eat. I've been feeding her pilchards for a few days as that was the only thing that she would entertain and I started her on calcium supplements 2 days ago as I was worried about the lack of food and condition. Hubby came home at 4pm so I went to bed for an hrs sleep while he stood watch over her but I'm flipping shattered. I have come to the conclusion that us lot must be completely blooming bonkers.

My advice to everyone is.....Do not plan a litter while you are pregnant as its twice as tiring!!!!!!!!!!

> I started her on calcium supplements 2 days ago

Actually supple meting Calcium before whelping can actually bring on Eclampsia, as the body doesn't rally it's natural reserves, so I would only start on the liquid Calo Cal D after whelping if it seems to be needed.

That's what i always thought but my vets prescribed them a couple of days ago at a minimal doseage but I'm glad you have confirmed this as I will check with my vet now (they are open until 7pm) Just to make doubly sure. He breeds great danes himself so he has been a great help in the past but I would still prefer to check to put my mind at rest.

my bitches first litter no 1 pup 'just slid out too' whilst sitting next to my hubby at 4 in the morning....!!

hubby and other dogs went to bed and my bitch had settled right down and was lay on the floor nice and peaceful. 5 mins later she darted up and scuttled across the room squatting and first pup slid out......NO WARNING WHAT-SO-EVER.  brindle girl

Oh congratulations!  Uneventful in the end then!

second one at 10.50, brindle girl, two pushes. 3rd at 10.55, fawn girl, one push.

well we have been at it all night and number 12 has just arrived. had to re-sus 2 but everone doing well at the moment, apart from hubby and i !!!!!!

12 on a maiden litter!!!!!!!

No flipping wonder she couldn't keep weight on her!!!!

wow congratlations x

wow...congratulations and very well done to mum..well both mums!!
Now the real fun starts...good luck with all the babies, yours included:)

And do they look like you own both parent or has an interloper scaled the fence?

12!  Bless her, congratualtions to all, wow your going to be busy, busy, busy.

Also wish to know were they your boys or unknown? And what does your friend say now if they are your boys?

Give each and every one a cuddle from Moi.

flipping heck and could hve been a possible slip mating!!!

congratulations!

OMG  12 puppies, you have your hands full now, hope mum and babies are ok.

I'll close this now the litter has safely arrived but of course a new thread can be started for any new questions that might crop up.