Piece in today's telegraph by Roy Hattersley (whose dog once killed one of the queen's geese in St James Park - making him expert on the subject )  It has got quite a lot of comments online.   I wonder who he thinks is going to be running all these training courses for people who have dogs that offend and who is going to pay for it. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/7261602/Owners-of-bad-dogs-must-be-brought-to-heel.html

Let's be honest, most people when buying a pup will take it to initial puppy classes for socialising and learning the basics, those more experienced may not need to do this but the responsible dog owners want a pup to grow up to be obediant and as well trained as possible and take steps in doing this.

Those responsible owners whose dogs grow up to have behavioural issues, some may be rescues, some have strong personalities and some have just not been trained correctly will try to correct dangerous behavioural issues themselves, with a behaviourist or a continual use of lead and muzzle, but they do their best and keep their dogs under control.

Those who have dogs with behavioural issues and allow them to run riot, have no control and basically don't care, why would they all of a sudden even if under a DDA court order wish to start going to training and behavioural classes? They are more likely to just give up the dog, why does anyone need someone else to tell them they need to train their dog? IMO these people aren't going to put in any hard work to correct behaviour, they would have done it already.

We all know when we have a dog how it should behave in public and with other dogs etc it is in our hands alone to do that and most of us are responsible.

Accidents do happen and adolescents especially can be a nightmare for some people, but if owners are shown to be doing something about it in taking care and responsibility (long lines etc for this age group) and can show they did do puppy classes and are calling in behaviourists and taking on the financial burden themselves then their is no reason to penalize these owners, just keep an eye on them, but IMO why should the other owners yobs etc, who do nothing to integrate their dog into living alongside people and other dogs be given a chance to correct this, why are the dogs not just seized and given to someone who will try to correct it.

Instead of running training classes for these type of people, why not just have the dogs trained by responsible trainers for re-homing if poss? As I agree who would be paying for it,  probably the council via the tax payer I guess, and I would rather my money went to a professional trainer and not have the money wasted on the types that rear these dogs in the first place.

As you say - a non-caring owner would give up on the dog and probabally go and get another one.   We are not going to suddenly change irresponsible owners by slapping an asbo on them for an out of control dog.   There is no cure for selfishness I am afraid - I have been shocked recently by the amount of dog mess that is gathering on some of the green areas of this estate.  Unfortunately we can't go taking dogs off everyone who doesn't look after them properly otherwise it would be a case of putting dogs down.  There are enough dogs in rescue now.

Unfortunately we can't go taking dogs off everyone who doesn't look after them properly.

Why not?

I know it sounds harsh and many may not agree with me, but personally I feel it is the way to go and the only way to go, what is the point in wasting money and resources. You are unfortunately right guess there is no point in dressing it up, many of those dogs probably would be pts as there is nowhere for them to go, training issues aside. But we are starting to get in a real mess in this country. (Not just the dog mess that you are noticing, which is a real pain I know More dog wardens with on the spot fines would stop that.) But real problems now.

Massive amounts of over breeding, over crowding of rescues and the ever growing use of dogs as status symbols, dangerous dogs, and a lack of care and knowledge of dog ownership are all growing every single year. Some areas are full of badly reared and cared for dogs.

I do think it is time to take the bull by the horns and take dogs away from people and not waste money on training courses for them.

You have to look ahead, I very much am in the frame of mind with all things in life that you look ahead and stop a problem before it grows, this country is too soft and doing a lot of talking and no action, we need to do and not just think about it.

I'm all for a military approach on dangerous dogs and loutish owners and wouldn't waste a penny of tax payers money on any of them.

>Unfortunately we can't go taking dogs off everyone who doesn't look after them properly

Is there an actual definition of 'looking after a dog properly'? It's very subjective; some would argue that leaving a dog at home all day while working fulltime, for instance, constitutes not looking after it 'properly' ...

It can be very hard to find venues to hold dog training classes that the organisers can afford.

My Friend uses an old Hall owned by a Moose lodge, but do worry what will happen when the owners all die out and the plot with the hall gets sold.

> why should the other owners yobs etc, who do nothing to integrate their dog into living alongside people and other dogs be given a chance to correct this,

IMHO everyone should have at least a second chance - there's lots of talk about educating the public - lets include everyone in that.  Lots of these yobos could quite well do with being educated and maybe, if given a second chance, could end up as good dog owners - not to mention the effect on their children if whole families were involved in training [dog obedience and care training that is].  
There is a lot of money spent on rescue some of this could be directed towards re-habilitating people to re-habilitate dogs and children-let's not give up - that's what some people do with dogs they can't control.