Well all is quiet on the home front at the moment (touching wood as I speak)

I hada call last week to ask if I would be able to foster a dog and I sadly had to decline as it is too soon for my boys and I want to make sure all of their issues are ironed out before I help another dog as I feel a dog with problems could tip our situation in the wrong direction. Whilst I do feel guilty that I was unable to help out it has made me think alot about what breed we would like to add to our family next. It took us quite a while to decide that the Cavalier was a good breed for us and whilst I love my boys dearly I would like to get another breed for our next dog. We are 100% on the decision to get a female and as it takes a while to find a breed, research health issues and then look for reputable breeders etc we though we would start our journey in trying to narrow down some breeds now.  Anyway enough waffling I know you are all much more expeienced and dog knowledgable than us so I though perhaps you could help us match up?

Our requirements/situation is:

2 young children (who are both at school)
large house, medium garden
existing dogs (cavaliers will be 3 and a half and 4)
We like to holiday with our dogs in cottages with lots of walking every day so a breed that would enjoy this
I take our boys out for a walk mid morning and hubby takes them again when he gets in so roughly 1 and a half to 2 hours per day exercise (although am aware of 5 minute rule) and in summer can be more
Am happy to take on a breed with more effort needed with training
Would emphasise that it is very important for me to be able to give our dogs exercise off lead
We would really like a breed with minimal grooming requirements (unlike our boys )

It is going to be a long process, we are going to dd in birmingham and have been reading rescue sites for the breeds we are interested in aswell as the breed clubs and many breeders sites. We thought that the gundog group might be a good one for us do you agree?
We have looked at Weimaraners, Viszlas, Pointers, Labradors and although not in the gundog group we like dobes, ddb (although not sure if they could handle this level of exercise and whether they would be too big for our existing dogs), dalmation and Boxer.
I know a total mix which is why we would be grateful for some advice....

Anyone?

Hi,

have you tried writing down all pros and cons of each breed that you like and compared them? As you have two young children you don't want a dog that bounces all over them. It also needs to get on with your other two dogs that you already have. I'd probably go for a Labrador...

> existing dogs (cavaliers will be 3 and a half and 4)
>

I certainly would not be planning on getting another dog in your family while you still have both the boys, and certainly not a bitch while you have two males, that have already been falling out.

One of our regular posters found her boys falling out when she got a bitch puppy, they were a Cavalier and an American cocker who had previously got on well.

When you have just the one male left, assuming due to the death of the other, then a bitch would probably be best, but by that time he will e old so another male puppy would likely be fine too.

This is likely to be around 10 more years, so the children will not be relevant by then either, unless it is grandchildren.

The boys are getting much better although we realise there is a way to go before we can relax a bit more. We have lots of friends with dogs that regularly visit the house and have dog sat for friends on holiday and they have never triggered their behaviour so I don't feel that this would be a trigger for them. Our behaviourist was happy when we discussed the idea and in fact said a dominant female would be quite good for the situation although in agreement that we need to be looking at 1-2 years time and be clear of the "fights" before we went on any waiting lists.

Our behaviourist doesn't feel that these "fights" are full on battles more like an intense argument, although we have been told that neither would be likely to hurt the other we are not willing to let them argue it out. The problem is that as there is no leader then when they argue neither will back down. We have been told that many dogs live like this quite happily and many owners allow them to sort it out (not letting either get hurt) but we are not confident enough to allow that to happen yet.
I appreciate your concern and had the same concerns myself but the behaviourist that we are under now is happy with our decision to get another one and is happy to keep working with our boys until we feel happy that we no longer have to be on our guard. I would not look to add another one until I felt happy (along with behaviourist) that this issue was under control and even then would be looking for a reputable breeder so it will definately be a way off yet.

After reading this now I have to agree with Brainless. I wouldn't just rely on one behaviourist to be honest. And if you are having consultations already because of the problems you have with the existing two dogs I wouldn't risk having even more problems in one/two years time when bringing in another one.

What do your dogs "fight" about?

>The problem is that as there is no leader then when they argue neither will back down.
>

You should take on leadership and not allow the dogs get into the situation in the first place. If you're not leading your pack, it will end in chaos.

> You should take on leadership and not allow the dogs get into the situation in the first place. If you're not leading your pack, it will end in chaos.

I do lead my pack but I don't buy into all the alpha way of training so yes I am the boss but when it is just down to the dogs there is no boss if that makes sense

> What do your dogs "fight" about?

Not an actual "fight" an argument, resources us and treats (chews etc), since having this behaviourist we are now able to give them chews in the same room with no issues which is a massive difference!

If you read my posts you will see that we have dealt with several behaviourists and this one is the first one to witness the "fight" in the flesh and therefore set us straight that it wasn't a full on fight. The difference has been amazing and whilst it is early days the behaviourist not only comes highly recommended by our vet nurse and others but now I would also recommend them as being the only one that has seen the behaviour and dealt with it appropriatly.

Rather than a debate on whether we should/shouldn't get another dog (we will be guided by the behaviourist on this as they see the behaviour in the flesh) we were really looking for advice about which breed would be the right breed for our circumstances "if" we were to get another dog. As I said we won't if we don't feel it is right

We have looked at Weimaraners, Viszlas, Pointers, Labradors and although not in the gundog group we like dobes, ddb (although not sure if they could handle this level of exercise and whether they would be too big for our existing dogs), dalmation and Boxer.
I know a total mix which is why we would be grateful for some advice

So glad you mentioned the boxer,  (biased of cause) but they will fit all your requirements , and your boys will have  Egon's of fun with them

The Vizsla too, is another breed I adore, and would fit in well with your family

My friend who breeds and shows, Vizsla, has just taken a 12 mth old boy in, he is on his 4th home,  *(he is not one of hers, just got wind of him, needing yet again a new home, and was on his way to the dogs home)

he is an adorable boy, with a fabulous temperament, he has gone in to her home with her 8 others, and settled really well.

If she does nto find him a home soon, I can se eher keeping him,,,,

You should take on leadership and not allow the dogs get into the situation in the first place. If you're not leading your pack, it will end in chaos.

Doesn't work like that. Humans have no place in a dog pack as dogs know full well we are human and not dogs.

> Doesn't work like that. Humans have no place in a dog pack as dogs know full well we are human and not dogs.

This is what we were told. They are obediant with commands etc and follow what we say (unless they are feeling lazy when we want them to go for their afternoon walk lol) but they are their own pack we are not in that we are their owners (and family)

I don't know if this makes sense but if we find a breed we like then a breeder we will be asking to walk our dogs with them on several occassions to see how the dogs react. If it is a lab or a weim then I have a couple I can "borrow" for a short while but they regularly mix with these and are happy to be bossed around even in their own home. My dogs are not aggressive and I feel that the original impression I have cast in my original posts has probably misled some of you to think they are but again this was my ignorance of the situation and my idea that their "arguments" were a full blown fight. These are not the first dogs I have ever owned but they are the only ones that have ever had arguments so I am learning as I go.

I also agree with Brainless, I would not get a bitch whilst you have 2 males, especially because they have had scraps before. IMO, it's a recipe for disaster. I think that whilst they are getting on it might be better to keep things as they are. Adding another, especially a bitch will just start them off again

>We have looked at Weimaraners, Viszlas, Pointers, Labradors and although not in the gundog group we like >dobes, ddb

To be honest, I would say steer clear of the Weimaraner, Dobe and DDB for a start.   Weimaraners are not for the faint hearted and can be very challenging and demanding, given the trouble you have had with your Cavaliers you could well find yourself with worse problems.  Ditto the Dobermann.  The DDB would definately be too big and heavy to be around the Cavaliers without supervision and personally I wouldn't risk it - I have dogs of similar size to Cavs and wouldn't entertain having them with a dog that big.

With all three breeds a spat between the larger dog and one of the Cavaliers could potentially result in a dead Cav all it takes is one snap, such is the size difference.  I have known this happen in rough play where one breed was so much larger and more dominant with heartbreaking results

>If it is a lab or a weim then I have a couple I can "borrow" for a short while but they regularly mix with these >and are happy to be bossed around even in their own home.

This might well be the case, for the dogs you know, but there is a vast difference between a visiting dog and one that lives with you permanently, you also cannot guarantee that any pup you get will mature to have the same temperament as the ones you presently know

I do think also that you really need to consider your own temperament and that of your OH and family when considering a new breed.  By your own admission you have had to resort to more than one behaviourist for a breed that many would consider very 'easy' to live with, yet you have some of the most challenging large breeds on your wish list.   Are you confident that you are the right people to own one of these breeds?

> With all three breeds a spat between the larger dog and one of the Cavaliers could potentially result in a dead Cav all it takes is one snap, such is the size difference.  I have known this happen in rough play where one breed was so much larger and more dominant with heartbreaking results

This is why we came on here for advice

> This might well be the case, for the dogs you know, but there is a vast difference between a visiting dog and one that lives with you permanently, you also cannot guarantee that any pup you get will mature to have the same temperament as the ones you presently know

I appreciate that

> I do think also that you really need to consider your own temperament and that of your OH and family when considering a new breed.  By your own admission you have had to resort to more than one behaviourist for a breed that many would consider very 'easy' to live with, yet you have some of the most challenging large breeds on your wish list.   Are you confident that you are the right people to own one of these breeds?

These are not the only dogs we have had, we have had a bull terrier (was my husbands first) and a rottie cross who never gave us any of these problems so we are not inexperienced owners. I have also fostered dogs with problems in the past and never had to resort to a behaviourist. The reason we did so in this instance is that we knew that we were too close to the situation to see what "we" were doing wrong. My dogs are well behaved, good with all animals we have ever encountered, good with children, excellent on and off lead and this is the "only" issue we have ever had. I re-iterated earlier that the behaviorist that we are dealing with has seen our dogs in the flesh and therefore I am sure you would agree would be more qualified to judge whether adding to our pack would be an issue than anyone on a forum.
I am purely looking for advice on which breed would fit our circumstances. Another consideration for us would be the cocker spaniel or the field spaniel although I would assume they would be similar in terms of coat care to the dogs we already have?

I would appreciate it if this post could remain friendly and not a "dig" at the way I have raised my dogs as I find that quite hurtful. I would have thought that someone posting on here for advice would be welcomed rather than the person that just goes out and gets a breed with no consideration as to whether it is appropriate to their lifestyle/current family. I wanted advice from other dog lovers but people far more experienced than ourselves to avoid making the mistakes that you have pointed out. I appreciate consideration for our current situation but again our behaviourist is who will guide us on when/if it is right to add to our pack, the information and advice I really need from here is which breeds would suit us

edited to add ; We would now only be looking for breeds within the gundog group

Personally, I'd leave well alone and stick to just the two More is not always better

Daisy

To be honest I would be looking at something of similar size to what you have if you want them all to live as a family, without separate living, play or walking, but I would not get a bitch.

The choice is vast given what you want in a dog and more what you don't.

For example I have said before, I am not keen on short coated dogs, ones with a lot of lip (cuts out most gundogs and mastiff types) and don't like floppy ears, liking prick eared dogs,. 

For me anything below knee height is out, as with my poor eyesight they would get trodden/tripped up over all the time.

I also can't be dealing with overly needy tendencies.

If you are thinking of another male so as not to give the boys another resource to squabble over (and a bitch is a major thing Worth fighting over) then you want a male from a breed that is not same sex intolerant.

Now with my own personal preferences for what I like but bering in mind the dogs you have at the moment I would consider the Swedish Vallhundm Well bred Border Terriers (from a family lineof good easy going temper), German Spitz, Japanese Spitz, Japanes Chin,French Bulldog (as the mastiff types appeal to you, probably the Boston is a bit too dominant) .

Thank you Brainless I really appreciate your post

I like larger dogs but when we had the children we decided to go for something smaller and I am very pleased with the choice we made, our dogs are very good with the children and vice versa. I know that our lifestyle would fit alot of dogs but I can see that our existing dog set-up will only suit certain breeds.

I love the look of our dogs but would love something a bit bigger even if just a little bit lol
My first choice would be a breed with a short smooth coat as I spend time every day grooming and whilst it doesn't take me that long it would be lovely to have a breed with a coat that just needed a rub down with a rubber brush.
Our vet recommended a stafford as we have children but I don't think that our circumstances would suit one, it is very important for us to let our dogs off lead when on walks (we live in the country) and also when we holiday. We also tend to go through fields with livestock so we need dogs we can train with good recall (although we are sensible enough to keep them on lead when we walk through these particular fields)

I like affectionate dogs rather than aloof ones

> Our vet recommended a Stafford

Good grief that is one breed I would never recommend in a pet multi-dog household,a nd I am sure experienced Stafford owners will agree.

I really wish vets would not advise on matters they so obviously don't have a true knowledge of.

I think staffs are lovely dogs, but in a pet home best suited to being only dogs or one of a mixed sex pair (one neutered of course).

Frenchies are not much smaller than a Staff bitch.

> Frenchies are not much smaller than a Staff bitch

We did consider this breed but what put us off was that we were told that it would be too dominant for our cavs, were we misinformed? Would they enjoy the level of exercise that we have?

I certainly think they could manage the amount the Cavs do, bearing in mind hot days (what are those).

As Cavs are less likely to challenge a more dominant breed it might actually solve the issue of there being no obvious boss dog, and I expect it varies and you need to research your breed lines fr dogs that are good mixers.

Was it a Frenchie breeder that told you this, as those I have met have not seemed domineering, but then I have a confident breed.

> As Cavs are less likely to challenge a more dominant breed it might actually solve the issue of there being no obvious boss dog, and I expect it varies and you need to research your breed lines fr dogs that are good mixers.
>

What sort of questions would I be asking breeders to ascertain this? Would I be asking if they have many Frenchies that go onto multi pet households?

Yes it was a breeder that told us this.

Thank you for your advice it has been extremely helpful

Certainly I would ask them to clarify, they may of course know situations their dogs do not do well in.

I would speak to several, preferably senior breeders and also ask for referrals to pet owners to ask how they get on in their homes.

When I got my first dog I contacted the breed club and was given details of pet owners near me willing to let me visit,so I could meet their dogs in an ordinary home environment, it was very helpful, though you have to remember the people may have different circumstances and abilities etc to you.  The person I visited was a teenage girl living at parents, and I was the mother of a toddler.

Thanks thats a good idea. We are visiting DD to get an idea of these dogs in the flesh then we will contact the relevent breed clubs. To add a little complication there is a possibility that I would like to find a breeder who would be willing to mentor me with showing, obviously without knowing anymore it is just a small possibility at the moment but I will have alot of time on my hands from September. Another thought we had was adding an adult bitch to our pack from rescue or a breeder - would this be a better or worse idea than a puppy?
Would my boys still see a bitch as a valuable resource if they are neutured and she is spayed?

Sorry for all the questions just thinking out loud

Yes, that's me - and I would have to agree with the recommendation not to get a bitch if your males are already a bit off with each other at times.

>>One of our regular posters found her boys falling out when she got a bitch puppy, they were a Cavalier and an American cocker who had previously got on well.

Did you get the bitch as a puppy? What breed was the bitch? How old were your boys?

> Yes, that's me

knew it was, didn't want to name names without asking

I do agree with you that a Stafford is probably not what you are looking for - though I do think a bitch could live with two dogs or another bitch without problems - certainly I've never experienced aggression between dogs and bitches or bitches and bitches that live together even though they do engage in very rough play fighting when they are young.   I think your main problem is that they have more of a tendency than most to dog aggression with strange dogs, they do have a chase instinct for livestock and also their rough play may not be ideal for a cav.  

That's just an aside though.   As for possible breeds for you to think about.   Of your list I think I'd be considering a doberman bitch.   I admit I've never owned one but there are several that I meet on the park that seem very good natured and exercise off lead mixing with other dogs no problem.   I know the dogs can have a tendency to be dog aggressive but all I can say is the bitches I've met recently have really made me consider getting one in the future.   There may be easier breeds to own but a dobe does have the advantage of being a deterrent to ne'er do wells which perhaps a pointer or similar doesn't maybe.Another possibility might be a ridgeback ?

Personally I also like sight hounds - or maybe things like the Pharaoh hound - or just a collie/greyhound lurcher.

>it would be lovely to have a breed with a coat that just needed a rub down with a rubber brush.

Have you considered a whippet? A handy size, smooth easy-care coat, and generally with a delightful temperament with dogs and people.

> That's just an aside though.   As for possible breeds for you to think about.   Of your list I think I'd be considering a doberman bitch.   I admit I've never owned one but there are several that I meet on the park that seem very good natured and exercise off lead mixing with other dogs no problem.   I know the dogs can have a tendency to be dog aggressive but all I can say is the bitches I've met recently have really made me consider getting one in the future.   There may be easier breeds to own but a dobe does have the advantage of being a deterrent to ne'er do wells which perhaps a pointer or similar doesn't maybe.Another possibility might be a ridgeback ?
>
>

I think that after a bit more research and advice on here whilst I love large breeds I have to put what is best for my boys first and I need to look for a breed of a similar size or just slightly larger or wait until my boys are no longer here to get a large breed (which I would rather not think about )

> Personally I also like sight hounds - or maybe things like the Pharaoh hound - or just a collie/greyhound lurcher.

Would a hound be a good idea off lead (sorry they are a completely new breed to me so pardon my ignorance), a collie would be far too much for us to cope with.

> Have you considered a whippet? A handy size, smooth easy-care coat, and generally with a delightful temperament with dogs and people.

My oh does not like the look of whippets or greyhounds, he grew up with very powerful breeds and likes the stockier look, unfortunately having children made me realise that our wants would be secondary to which breeds were more manageable with children and training.

If I am honest I love our boys and would not swap them for anything but whilst they are perfect for our family as it is they are not the breed that either me or my husband long to own if that makes sense. Rather than going out and getting a dog that was right for us we decided on our cavs because they were right for what we could manage training wise and also size wise for our children and I will say hand on heart that has been the right decision for us but when the children are older and our darling boys are no longer here we would like to own something more taxing and bigger.
It may be that we wait until then or it may be that in time I decide to foster again and see how the boys are, I like the look of the frenchies and their stubborness certainly appeals lol but we will do our research and see how we feel

>I would appreciate it if this post could remain friendly and not a "dig" at the way I have raised my dogs as I find >that quite hurtful.

My post was in no way meant to be a 'Dig', unfriendly or hurtful, if you did a search on my name you would know that to be the case.

I gave an honest appraisal of the breeds you mentioned, that I have personal experience of relative to the information you gave, your present dogs and the difficulties you have had.

Ah well, more time to spend with my dogs.

So ideally you want a medium - large dog with a short or easy care coat and not as demanding as say a collie ?  Something that is relatively trainable or at least something that is not known as having a tendency to dog aggression or chasing livestock ?  No requirement for it to act as a guard/deterrent (I know many dogs will bark but some have an appearance that is more of a deterrent than others) ?

  

No probs - just endorsing your opinion. My two are ok together 99% of the time, but when they go, they mean it, and I couldn't cope with it if they weren't small dogs!

>>knew it was, didn't want to name names without asking 

Yep, got all 3 as puppies - 1 Cavalier and 1 Yankee boy, same age, grew up as littermates without any problems, then when they were 3 years old got a Cavalier bitch puppy. When she was 5 months old (but not coming in season, she was 11 months before she did that) hubby took Yankee on a weekend break and I stayed home with Cavs as had shows with the boy, when Yankee walked back in through the door they just went for each other. Tried all sorts of things, some I now know probably made it worse. Got the Yankee neutered which did calm things somewhat. They are nearly 8 now, and although nearly always fine together, we keep them apart when anything exciting like dinner or visitors is happening, or of course when we are not with them. They were all 3 snuggled on the sofa last night, but I just don't trust them as they go in the blink of an eye.

>>Did you get the bitch as a puppy? What breed was the bitch? How old were your boys?

OK got to do some work but I reckon Ridgebacks and Chesapeake Retrievers are worth looking at when you go to Discover Dogs.   Let us know if you come to any conclusions.

Beagles make excellent, if stubborn, pets.

Rhodesians bitches are fab, loving, loyal, easy to train and excercise but be warned they are BIG! Our girl is 40 kilos and is built like a you know what!

I would steer clear of dali's although they would be the perfect size for you they take A LOT of training and excercise and in my experience will pull like hell no matter what! They are increadibly prone to urinary stones which are sometimes fatal in dogs and can be just as problematic in bitches, they will often need a controlled, low purine diet which can seem a bit unfair if the other dogs are allowed yummy treats! And the white hair, my god you will never be able to wear black again!

We have just got out first dobie bitch who is fab but only 4 and a half months at the minute so i wont pass judgement on her just yet!

Ideally we would like a vizsla bitch next, they seem perfectly sized for you and have fab temprements. I'm often suprised how small they are when you see them next to Dobes and Ridgebacks but on their own they do seem like big dogs!

> My post was in no way meant to be a 'Dig', unfriendly or hurtful, if you did a search on my name you would know that to be the case

I appreciate your input, perhaps I was a bit touchy but I didn't want it to turn into a post about whether we should/shouldn't have another dog. I can also see that people are only giving advice based on what information I have previously given which may not always paint the best picture (hard to describe thigs without it sounding worse than it is as we have alot of emotion attatched to our dogs)

> I gave an honest appraisal of the breeds you mentioned

This is exactly what I wanted so please feel free to give me advice on any breeds I mention. My dogs are not aggressive in any way, they deal with children of all ages and I have children round here quite alot and not all of them dog savvy so they are used to excitable situations and have always dealt with it really well. They have never had any issue with a dog male or female in or out of the house, they sleep together, play together and spend all their time with us together (except for feeding time). We found that it started over our eldest not respecting the bouderies of our youngest when he had chews, treats etc as our youngest has always been very food orientated whereas the eldest could take or leave it. They have both been put in their place before by older dogs and they didn't argue back so the behaviourist feels that it is because they respect the authority of a more dominant dog but they are kind of on a level at home due to age and personality. I hope that makes sense, the behaviourist has only really been giving us hints and tips we haven't got to do any other sort of training as they are very obediant (unlike the children...lol)

> No probs - just endorsing your opinion. My two are ok together 99% of the time, but when they go, they mean it, and I couldn't cope with it if they weren't small dogs!

See this is what I thought of ours but our behaviourist says that it isn't a full on fight more a telling off, mouths open no biting more growling

> So ideally you want a medium - large dog with a short or easy care coat and not as demanding as say a collie ?  Something that is relatively trainable or at least something that is not known as having a tendency to dog aggression or chasing livestock ?  No requirement for it to act as a guard/deterrent (I know many dogs will bark but some have an appearance that is more of a deterrent than others) ?
>

Probably more small to medium to fit in with our existing dogs, definately not as demanding as a collie :-0 , yes re livestock and dog aggression and no requirement to be a guard just a family member

> Beagles make excellent, if stubborn, pets

Would they be a good breed with regards to off lead walking?

No, ours really mean it - they used to draw blood and have to be dragged apart.

> No, ours really mean it - they used to draw blood and have to be dragged apart.

, I hope you didn't think I was implying that yours didn't mean it (I wasn't)

Gosh Yabbadoo,

I'm actually quite shocked that you are even contemplating another dog in the near future with all the problems you have had with your two Cav's  and it is only just starting to sort out, hopefully **fingers crossed** it will, now that you have a good behaviourist. If I were in your place I wouldn't even be thinking of another dog at all, I would still be focussed on making sure the two I had were going to settle properly.

I know you may take offence to my post, not meaning to be pesimistic, but you have two dogs and have had all those problems another dog for the next couple of years wouldn't even be crossing my mind. Do you think you are jumping the gun a bit here?

No worries. But I would advise rethinking the idea of another dog, unless you are prepared for the possibility of either rehoming a dog if the fighting breaks out again, or keeping them apart whenever they can't be supervised, something which will be harder for you as you have the kids - they will need to understand they can't just leave gates open etc.

>>I hope you didn't think I was implying that yours didn't mean it (I wasn't)

Thanks for the replies, I can see that regardless of my reassurance that our situation is coming under control and the fact that our behaviourist who has seen our dogs in the flesh does not see this as a problem I am forever going to get debates on whether I should/shouldn't get a dog.

I won't ask for any further advice regarding this situation

> I can see that regardless of my reassurance that our situation is coming under control and the fact that our behaviourist who has seen our dogs in the flesh does not see this as a problem I am forever going to get debates on whether I should/shouldn't get a dog.

I think that advice from owners who have experience is always worth considering.  I know that we/they may not have seen the situation at first hand but we've all read your threads with interest and concern.  It's clear that at times, you'd reached the end of your tether and found it very difficult to manage the emotion and the responsibility.

You've done exactly the right things up to now, you've taken advice, you've listened to opinion and you've persevered with a behaviourist.

Even though it may seem that you are on top of the problem now, dogs can and will surprise you.  2 steps forward, one step back is not unusual AND introducing another dog will completely change the dynamic in your household.  No one that I have read is saying don't get another dog but simply reminding you to exercise extreme caution; wait until you are a year further on at least, and have completely settled your current doggy duo.

As you yourself have said, 'it is coming under control.'  Only a few weeks ago you were still considering rehoming one of your dogs.  Wait until the situation is fully under control, give yourself some time to enjoy your newly calm dogs, and then think again a bit further down the line.   Good luck with your decision

> I think that advice from owners who have experience is always worth considering.  I know that we/they may not have seen the situation at first hand but we've all read your threads with interest and concern.  It's clear that at times, you'd reached the end of your tether and found it very difficult to manage the emotion and the responsibility.
>

Yes the emotion was very difficult to manage, I was told that one of the dogs would need to be re-homed and that the situation was not a fixable one.....however when we finally found a decent behaviorist that saw the situation and a "fight" first hand we realised that it wasn't in fact fighting as I had assumed but a telling off. We are assured that this is perfectly normal in a "pack" and the reason there is so much growling by both is that they have never been allowed to establish who is the boss so to speak, I have tried to explain this and explain that in fact I was in the wrong originally with my description of our situation but this makes no difference??

> Even though it may seem that you are on top of the problem now, dogs can and will surprise you.  2 steps forward, one step back is not unusual AND introducing another dog will completely change the dynamic in your household.  No one that I have read is saying don't get another dog but simply reminding you to exercise extreme caution; wait until you are a year further on at least, and have completely settled your current doggy duo.
>

We aren't looking for a puppy tomorrow we are looking at looking into a new breed then establishing a couple of breeders lines we are happy with then going on a waiting list which I can't see happening in less than a year anyway. We wouldn't be looking to go on a waiting list until the situation was fully under control but I don't see how we can control our dogs doing something we are told is perfectly natural?

Thanks for your post and I do take helpful advice on board but I really only asked for advice on breeds as opposed to advice on whether we should add a dog to our pack that decision we can make for ourselves

Right, we have Hungarian Vizsla....WE have found him a lot more high maintenance then our labs and they have their moments!!,  they need Lot's of mental stimulation, busy dogs...they tend to get bored/distracted easily, we train in him in 5 minute bursts...they are highly intelligent and will use that to their advantage if you are not consistent with training, they can also be very talkative.
They are very sensitive, but very wilful, and can be needy and highly strung,  but their antics never stop us smiling! they definitely have a sense of humour!  they like to be involved in everything that's going on with their family.
They aren't for the faint hearted, but if you put the hard work in they will reward you ten fold with all that Vizzy affection!

I posted this on another thread.

If you are looking at the gundog group do be aware that some are still working dogs and the other breeds will be split into working or show types. Working gundogs can require a lot of time and input to use up physical and mental energy. I certainly in your situation would not be prepared to take on a flatcoat (as most still work) or any kind of working gundog.

I'm sorry but I would never recommend a Ridgeback in your situation especially with 2 males that are maybe not the best of friends.  Although I don't own them, I have a friend who has had 6 over the years and I can honestly say they are not an easy breed.

What about a Hamiltonstovare?  Biggish, hound, good natured (?), smooth coat.   Although personally I'd wait until your dogs are totally sorted out or until they both pop their clogs.