My girl popped last night and sorta successfully delivered 8 pups.

I have had a lot of interest in this litter where i have far more homes waiting than puppies available.

however 2 of them have been from people over seas. One in Singapor and the other India. After phone calls and various mails they seem genuine but i am just not sure about sending a puppy that distance to a strange place etc.

what are peoples thoughts on this?

Personally I wouldnt unless you know them ,or you know someone who does!

For a pup to go abroad for me there has to be a good reason, the people after the pup either need to be attached to some sort of breeding programme and after my line, which would need to be looked into for approval and I would need to know the reputation of the people involved or they would need to be prominant members in the show/working world who are after a good prospect to continue to show or work with. They would have to be someone I could trace and look into and be known in the dog world.

i am just not sure about sending a puppy that distance to a strange place etc.


If you do a proper vet and your homework of any potential buyer it would not feel like a strange place, you should feel happy about where your pups are going and where they are going to, if you are apprehensive then you don't know enough about who or what their life will entail so you don't send them to these people.

You check and double check and check again, never take the word of anyone, people say what they want you to hear.

Anyone contacting someone abroad for a dog as a pet I actually see as dubious as there must be good lines over there to chose from so why are they contacting someone abroad? I would look at these as scammers and not entertain them.

But if a pup were going to someone I knew of for a reason I approved of then pups are able to travel well as long as with a good courier, but ideally you will have met these people previous to your bitch even being mated.

If you are not 100% sure of either of these potential homes steer clear, if you have more homes than pups over here then keep your pups in this country.

however 2 of them have been from people over seas. One in Singapor and the other India. After phone calls and various mails they seem genuine but i am just not sure about sending a puppy that distance to a strange place etc.

Apart from what has already been said, all of which I agree with, also think of the temperature difference. According to the BBC, this week in Singapore temperatures will reach 33 C, and in India just the same. Can your breed cope?

Personally I would not sell that far away. What happens if the dog needs a new home at some point?

I only sold one to America because it was friends of mine. I wouldn't as a rule sell abroad, specially not if you have more homes waiting than puppies.

I will sell abroad if
1) I know them...
2) I like them...
3) they are prepared to come here first
4) People in their country ( especially their breed club secretary) are prepared to vouch for the way the dog will be kept..( ie no kennels, no offloading them if they dont suit etc)
5) The climate is comfortable for the dog.. having said that one has gone to Finland and he has 5ft snow drifts to deal with but he does get a sauna every night with the family (which he loves apparently!!)

But no I never ship a puppy off to a foreign country without the above safeguards.

i have sent several overseas, to countries including Central America, USA, Australia, Scandinavia etc, but only to people I either know, or who can be vouched for by a breed club officer or someone I know. I will only end abroad if a potential show hound, to a show home, and to owners who "care" is akin to my own standards, and where the hound will also be part of the family. iget dozens of enquiries a week for pups from people I dont know or cant be vouched for or I simply dont like the sound of. They all get a polite "no".

Why would you even consider thinking of  sending puppies overseas when you have enough interest here?

Not getting at you but these kind of posts always makes me think that the poster is actually advertising the litter for sale.  Why would you send abroad to countries like that as has already been mentioned if you have loads of people here interested?

No-one will have mine without me seeing them first either where they live or for them to come over to the UK.  Have sold a few Pom's abroad over the years but they've always come here before buying.

I agree, with all of the above...I certainly would never send a pup to a country like India or Singapore. The only time I would consider sending a pup overseas would be someone I knew personally and trusted.

Perrodeagua, I knwo how it could come across but thats not the way its intended. I genuinly have had people contact me and having not been in this position before i wasnt sure what the standard reaction was. That said i can totally agree with what people are saying, I would rather they stayed local (UK) so if problems arrise i can take back.
Not advertising the litter for sale on here at all, I have had it advertised on the expected litters page on champdogs for 2 weeks and that response alone has meant I have more potential homes than puppies.
you have all confirmed what i thought, flattering as it may be, i like my kids local!

Thanks for all the responses.

I like this rule too - even my friends had to come over and find an airline that would fly the puppy in the cabin before I said yes! They were happy to do that too.

>>3) they are prepared to come here first

> Why would you even consider thinking of  sending puppies overseas when you have enough interest here?

Exactly my thoughts!

    > Why would you even consider thinking of  sending puppies overseas when you have enough interest here?

Exactly my thoughts!

I disagree with the above comment. i dont consider overseas homes as a last resort! I weigh up all homes, and owners, and decide based on what I feel most suitable to the situation  and the puppy. Id rather send a puppy overseas to the right home, than to the uk for a lesser home.

Some of our very best homes have been from folk abroad, but I do masses of homework first - even more than for this country.    And I do get a special buzz when one of 'my' dogs abroad achieves something special.

We have friends all over the world now, and invitations to working events and shows which we wouldn't go to otherwise.    This has broadened my own education considerably as well, and we have brought ideas back to this country which have added to, and improved, our own training methods.

Jo

I never meant to infer that Overseas 'was a last resort', but I don't understand allowing (breeding) a litter when you haven't got homes sorted within the U.K., we are all different. Our dogs are part of the family (sentimental perhaps) and not livestock to be advertised at a later date

What you have to remember if they are brought for showing what happens to them if they do not come to show standard. When I bred collies I had interest from abroad but declined because of that worry.

> When I bred collies I had interest from abroad but declined because of that worry.

Which I fully understand and agree with (wouldn't do for us all to think the same.)

I would be very concerned if someone wanted to pass on a pup that didn't exactly turn out as they wanted.  None of us can make solid guarantees about the potential. 

While I may have dozens of enquiries in a year, I don't get dozens a week like sam, so have enough potential owners that are suitable over here.  I'm not in a position to have pups left over for abroad.  But then, I have very small litters, so it is a bit different I suppose.  As I get 1-3 pups average, I turn down plenty of people in this country anyway.

Lacy. ours live in the home and are part of the family as well. we have more "non starters and has beens" than we have showable or workable hounds!! They are not "livestock"! However we do have a very high reputation of producing quality show hounds, and when considering homes overseas as show homes, we make the same considerations as we make for uk homes......ie.....they are homes for life, regardless of whether or not they make the grade in the show ring. Luckily my breed is still shown and campaigned world wide by enthusiasts whose hounds are family members rather than commercial "show kennels"

We have sent 2 puppies to Portugal and old friend, and 2 older dogs to Barbados, the breeder of 1 of them, who we have known years and trust with our life, the dogs look amazing and we have pictures of them carrying coconuts down the beach, other than that i usually tell any enquiries from abroad that we dont sell puppies abroad.

I would never, ever entertain shipping a puppy to any country unless I had first of all met the prospective owner. I'm also sorry to say that there are some countries that I would never ship a pup to anyway!

> , but I don't understand allowing (breeding) a litter when you haven't got homes sorted within the U.K., we are all different. Our dogs are part of the family (sentimental perhaps) and not livestock to be advertised at a later date

I dont understand this opinion at all. Do you think serious breeders send them abroad because they haven't got buyers ready? Have a litter and then advertise them to all comers on CD?.........Nothing could be further from the truth. I have a planned litter which have their homes sorted before they are even concieved! One or two ( depending on their sex) will be going to the continent to achieve our joint goals but, that not withstanding, my criteria ( above) will be met. If I had enquiries from overseas for a puppy from a mating I've just done, they would be way - way too late.

Thinking that my dogs are not part of my family because I also have the future of my breed at heart, is rather naive. I'm a European and as such will work with anyone relatively near by (and I count western Europe as that) who wishes to broaden our gene pool in our breed.

> I have a planned litter which have their homes sorted before they are even concieved!

the thing is of course occasionally there will be some puppies left over after bookings, sometimes not enough pups, as we can never be sure of the number and sex of a litter.

I generally do not like to take more than 3 bookings for each sex and then advise any further people who are still keen to go on my list that they may be disappointed, but I would do my best to get them on another breeders list or if another breeder has extra pups then hopefully get them sorted.

Other breeders appreciate the already vetted and relationship established quality of the passed on enquiries, especially as if it is for excess, cancelled etc pups they wouldn't have so long to establish a rapport for pups already born, as those on their waiting list for months/years.

I have imported and used imports, and travelled to use stud dogs overseas, so I cannot in all fairness take a stance that I won't consider exporting.  It would be different perhaps if I owned a breed popular the world over, as export enquiruies coudl easily be put in touch with breeders local to the interested parties.

I have exported, four times to people who were introduced to me through people I knew in the breed, all shown, but only two bred from.  I have also exported two to purely pet homes, and one of these to a country I would normally not consider.

The latter case of a late middle age couple who had just lost their bitch of the breed to cancer got an initial, I won't export to strangers or to people who can't prove their dog owning caring credentials and involvement in dogs, especially to countries with socially different attitudes to pets.  I explained what I would need and why any other reputable breeder would also refuse for same reason etc expecting them to go away.

As the breed is not one often found in their country (I expect theirs was a puppy farm import from USA) I suggested perhaps they should have a Shiba Inu native to their country and easily obtained.

After nearly a year of correspondence, photos of their bitch with them from puppy to old age, reference letters from their veterinarian, UK friends who vouched for them as being thoroughly enlightened and caring owners I was convinced at least they would make good owners.

So not having anything else negative to say I put them in touch with an export agent in the UK expecting the very high cost of flying a puppy to put them off, as it was twice the price of the pup.  I also raised my concerns with the export agent a person high up in our Kennel club and very experienced with dealing with the country the enquiry was from who was able to allay fears also.

The other pet home is an English ex-pat often visiting family in UK.  She had lost her rescue bitch of our breed and owned a related breed prior to that.  This lady came and visited me on two occasions when in the UK, I liked her and she came and picked pup up herself and took him home in the Cabin of the plane in a soft airline holdall for small dogs.  Both these two send updates regularly, as have all the others.

I am especially happy that my Australian Import at 11 years old is working to achieve her tracking championship, having gained TD and TDex after her show career was over (they can't show spayed bitches except in veteran).

ditto Toolz reply....sums up my feelings 100%

Some really interesting replies.

I had a fair amount of interest before the pups were concieved.. then when i announced the litter on CD and other places and though word of mouth i have a waiting list/interest list 3x what i have available.  I have e-mailed out all the people who are on my list letting them know they are here and ones that are still intersted to get back in contact so i can start thinking about who is going to get what.  Because i have 2 people looking for show prospects i have said to just wait till i do my evaluations and go from there.
Long gone are the days where you just picked a puppy out of a cardboard box and went home with it!

must say I have found similar. 

I start with a list of people I would be Happy to see have a puppy.  by the time the bitch is mated I will write to everyone to confirm their continued interest and a few will have dropped away, same again when I confirm pregnancy, by then it is usually those who are sticking with the program so to speak.

When pups are born then I have to decide if I have enough of whichever sex, and if any are destined for show then the owners will need to wait at least another five weeks to see if any look promising enough (I usually find you can tell by then if there is nothing really special in the litter), this is the stage at which a pup may become available to a purely pet home, but I would not have hung on to extra potential homes if there were other breeders with pups available, as I would not feel it fair to keep people hanging onm and then miss out (but mine is a numeriaclly small breed, 98 pups registered last year and only 55 the year before).

Then there may be the odd unforeseen cancellation.  Also, if there is no definite interest in showing one, then I will hang onto the most promising until the last minute hoping a home that will do the pup justice comes along, sometimes it does (such as the top winning male in Ireland, and his half sister too), sometimes it doesn't such as the litter brother to my precocious youngest champion who is in a pet home on the Isle of Man.