OK - I have a huge whelping box with part that is for going to the toilet. The pups have been great, using the newspaper there. However as they got older, they screamed to be out so I let them have the run of the kitchen. This has resulted in their house training regressing so I have put a big pen on the end of the whelping box. At night they sleep in the whelping box and in the morning I open the door for them to use the pen. (covered in newspapers) This lasted one night, and then they realised they couldn't get into the kitchen. Even though they have all this space they screamed the place down lol. What should I do? The neighbours won't put up with that for long! But if I let them have the run of the kitchen they'll just wee and poo everywhere! Help!

What age are they, If they are over five weeks can they have access to an outside area?

Hopefully during the daytime they do have access to the outdoors now to run and play. Pups need a lot of room, they don't like to feel trapped and they will cry at barriers that stop them entering rooms, a pen and crate have barriers they can see through, so may well cause crying and screaming as you put it.

My pups have a huge heated open plan conservatory which leads onto my kitchen and day room, probably about 5 times larger than a normal conservatory, so plenty of room for them to run and play along with access to a good plot of garden which I have cordoned off, in all they have almost 100ft to play and explore, which you would expect to be plenty of room for some wee pups wouldn't you? Nope wrong.

I have a 4 ft purpose built divider across the entrance to the kitchen and dayroom and boy when they use to come across that they would whine like mad, the moment they reached the divider and could see through it and could see there were other rooms for them to go and explore they would cry and whine to be let in, so in conclusion it has nothing to do with space why they cry. My solution was to lie throws over the dividers so that they could not see the other rooms, I can still see them, but they accepted the divider as a wall with no access so they had no need to stand there and whine any longer.

I had no more crying in the early morning, it worked a treat. So perhaps you could cover the pen on a night so that they feel there is no access to your kitchen.

Otherwise, you could leave the whelping box/crate open and place newspaper on one side of the kitchen, (I do this in the conservatory on a night) and you will find that the pups will use the newspaper on a night time and if you call your pups to the garden often to  pee they will also learn to go in the garden in the daytime and the newspaper on a night.

Remember pups wake up a lot during the night, have a little wander then go back to sleep, with the days being lighter my pups would be up and playing by 5am, so they need the room to do that also, so perhaps allowing them the kitchen would be a good idea if they are over 3.5 weeks now, also make sure they have new things to play with and change things around for them as they can get bored as well.

I have never managed to keep my pups in an indoor puppy pen past 4 1/2 - 5 weeks at the most.  Mine are a hardy medium size breed (20 - 23kg weight as adults).

At that point they have an outdoor pen that is 10 feet x 12 feet and a double kennel with the two connecting to give them another 10 x 5 feet.  They will accept short periods in the puppy pen, when sleepy after meals.

Within days they are using the furthest part of the dog run to toilet in.

Also once you allow pups access to an area they will not appreciate being excluded from going there and will do 'the demented Seagull' screaming to be let out

As your finding this is the stage that your nerves are on a knife edge re neighbours and you get very little sleep keeping them quiet.

They will become more and more demanding as time goes on,a nd their needs and wants more individual, so at any given time some will be asleep some playing, some demanding you play with them etc.  It is pretty full on hard work.

We let our have the sitting room and kitchen/ dining room and with the next litter they will also have an outside run/ kennel so lots of room, because we don't mix one of the other dogs with the puppies whilst young they get rotated throughout the day so its like a whole new adventure all through the day.

To get over the neighbour issue we invited them and their children to have a peek and once the pups had injections a play so they didn't mind, we will be doing the same this time as well so lots of antibac hand wash    

Thanks everyone! Its good to know my pups aren't unusual! They were 4 weeks old yesterday. I have changed things round (again) so now they will have access to the outside. (when I open the door at 5.30-6am) I have also blocked off their access to seeing the rest of the kitchen, but I can still see them. Hopefully this will work!

just wondering in my case we get alot of foxes and I have seen rats in the bushes in the past so where would I stand in letting young pups into my garden ?

Im concerned about them picking up infection ?

Hm I'd be worried if I thought they were getting into my garden.......... not sure what to suggest, hopefully someone else can help?

1st night was a success!!!! NO screaming this morning! I let them out at 5.30 and after a bit of romping around they went back to bed without any noise! Phew - long may it last! Thank everyone!

could you not cordon off an area away from bushes and an area you can see and make sure that this area is disinfected well using a quality disinfectant such as Trigene or Jeyes fluid.

It is quite important to fence of a safe area outside for the pups, as pups can get through what seems to be a dog proof fence easily, and as has been said makes cleaning up much easier.  It also means the other dogs (and Mum) can go in the garden without having the pups pestering, so they can go to toilet or relax in peace.

I always have it so the adults can get to pups if and when they want, but pups can't get to them.

As for going outside, the adults do so pups have as much chance of picking something up from Mum, so you can't wrap pups in cotton wool, and at least in your own back garden you can minimise things with cleaning up and disinfecting.  Remember to let any disinfecting/cleaning products dry, preferably rinse away any residue before allowing pups onto the area.

Thats a good point about mum bringing in infection .
My garden is all grass apart from stepping stones so disinfecting isnt really something I could do .
What I can do is to make an area for pups closer to the house and away from bushes .

I guess if mum is immune to any infection in the garden all pups will be covered too ?

Pleased everything worked well for you last night / this morning , long may the peace continue

I put the puppy pen outside for a while, but as Carrington said, they just whined to be through the barrier of the pen. In the house, the only way mine will settle is if they think there is no way into my kitchen. Outside, I would have to build a solid pen I think! Thankfully the fence is such that they cannot get out anywhere.

> Outside, I would have to build a solid pen I think!

No mien is 2 inch mesh, as long as it is large enough they won't be unhappy, and of course you can always block off the view to any really interesting area, at about 18 inch height.

Mines huge but if they can see the other dogs in the garden, they want out lol.