Hi There i am looking for a female american cocker puppy either sable( i know this colour is rare though) or chocolate and tan.I am looking for a little girl,i already have a beautiful buff bitch,i absolutely adore this breed.I am willing to wait for the right puppy and also travel anywhere in the uk.Thanks

Have you tried the breed clubs? I have seen both colours (great choices, I would LOVE a choc tri or sable/white myself, but hubby only likes the buffs) at dog shows, so they do exist over here.

I have been in touch with my buff girls breeder and she is going to try and make sure i get a nice pup but if antone knows of someone with a litter planned or due please get in touch.THANKS

Still no luck with finding a pup although i do know of a bitch about to go to stud but chances of finding what im looking for are slim with that litter.Ive never seen a choc tri,wow they sound gorgeous,does anyone breed choc tris in the uk?

Hi there, you will most likely be in for a very long wait for a puppy of any of those colours.

You should contact the breed clubs, for the most reliable, up to date information. Please be patient, the best things are worth waiting for.

AMERICAN COCKER SPANIEL CLUB OF GB. Sec. Mr K Arrowsmith. Tel No: 01353 723469
HOME COUNTIES AMERICAN COCKER CLUB. Sec. Miss E Bugler. Tel No: 023 80790 498
NORTHERN COUNTIES AMERICAN COCKER SPANIEL CLUB. Sec. Mrs Caine. Tel No: 0115 9135071

Dawn R.

Mod -You are not allowed to advertise litters here on the forum, please read the Terms of Service

Thanks so much for your reply.Do you know the colour of your black girls parents?I just love choc and tans.

Sometimes there are chocolate and tan puppies for sale on Epupz but nine times out of ten they are not KC registered or they have endorsements placed on them so their progeny cannot be KC registered. 

Most of the chocolate lines are from US and EU imports and it is very expensive to bring a dog into the UK. 

The Chocolate tri I saw at Southern Counties is the only one I have ever seen. 

Thanks Natalie,please keep in touch and thanks for the advise about epupz

Hi Am Cocker

Just to point out that pups having endorsements on their KC registration saying "Progeny not eligible for registration" is usually a good thing. By far the majority of caring and responsible breeders place endorsements.

Thats ok because im just looking for a pet but definately want from health tested parents after seeing a friends english cocker spaniel go blind with pra,very sad

> Thats ok because im just looking for a pet but definately want from health tested parents after seeing a friends english cocker spaniel go blind with pra,very sad

Well done on searching for a pup from health tested parents, but you need to be aware that this is not a guarantee that pups won't be affected with problems, particularly HC, as there is currently no way on knowing if the dogs are carriers, or if they will be affected at some point later in life.  Testing is the best we can do at the moment, but no way is it foolproof.

[url=]Just to point out that pups having endorsements on their KC registration saying "Progeny not eligible for registration" is usually a good thing. By far the majority of caring and responsible breeders place endorsements.[/url]

I agree because every caring breeder doesn't want their puppies ending up in a puppy farm.

I wouldn't buy a pedigree pupppy that wasn't KC registered or had endorsements put on the pedigree.

> I wouldn't buy a pedigree pupppy that wasn't KC registered or had endorsements put on the pedigree.

I can understand wanting a pup to be registered, but why would endorsements matter if you wanted the pup purely as a pet?

I agree if you buy a puppy that is not a good specimen then that ok to place an endorsement but the breeder has a responsibility to the new owner to explain why the endorsements have been placed.

What is wrong is that people are buying puppies from either unregistered or endorsed parents and selling the puppies for the same price as you would want to pay for a puppy without this nonsence.

In American cockers a typical example of this is a litter of American Cockers advertised in the Cornish Western Morning News about six months ago. The sire was unregistered and the dam was registered and had no restrictions but the litter could not be KC registered. Out of curiosity as you do and it is very rare that American cocker are available in this area I telephoned to enquire about the litter. The sire was from one of the top UK kennels and the woman selling the puppies claimed it was an accident that her dog mated her bitch. She didn't know about any eye problems in the breed and neither of the parents had been eye tested.

People wanting a pet have no knowledge about the health probelms and they don't even know how the endorsement system works. 

> I agree if you buy a puppy that is not a good specimen then that ok to place an endorsement but the breeder has a responsibility to the new owner to explain why the endorsements have been placed.
>

Hi Natalie, endorsements only work if they are not only fully explained, but also the breeder must get the puppy buyers signature to say that they have had a full explaination and that they understand it. Otherwise the Kennel Club can and will lift the endorsement. So it's in the breeders interest to make sure they get that signature. I have a dog that is endorsed, it's not a problem, I had no intention of using him at stud, so when I made that promise, I meant it.

> People wanting a pet have no knowledge about the health probelms and they don't even know how the endorsement system works.&nbsp; <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20 height=10>

That's why we discuss these things publicly, so that if, and hopefully when, Joe Public does any research at all, our wisdom pops up on Google and we spread the word.

So now would be a good time to mention the American Cocker Spaniel Club of Great Britain, The Northern Counties American Cocker Spaniel Club, and the Home Counties American Cocker Spaniel Club.

Dawn R.

I have an English cocker but my 11 year old daughter wants an American spaniel.  Preferably she would like a cream bitch but I am looking for one with no restrictions on it.  

>   Preferably she would like a cream bitch but I am looking for one with no restrictions on it. 

You would then need to explain to breeders that you are looking for a bitch withotut restrictions, and your reasons for this - eg, that you intend to show/breed or whatever.  You will find that this restricts your options considerably as most careful breeders are unwilling to sell unendorsed pups as pets/to people they don't know.  Basically, lots of us feel that if you want a pet, we may be able to porvide you with a super Yankee for your family, but we are selling pets as pets, not as future breeding bitches or stud dogs.     There are far too many approaches from people who say they want an unendorsed bitch puppy as "they may want to start showing" but have done not reasearch into the breed, and it becomes fairly obvious that what they should have said is "I intend to breed". 

American Cockers don't actually come in cream - Buff can range from any colour from palest silver through to deep mahogany red, but the correct term is still Buff.

Gwen I don't believe endorsements work because breeders are buying American cockers et al to breed. Big time breeders still breed and produce unregistered puppies. 

It is a big problem because most people looking for puppies are first time or novices in the world of dog ownership.                                                                      

Endorsements work to the extent the offspring will not be Kennel club registered, it can't stop the exploitation of a given dog or bitch and their unregistered offspring, but it is a deterrent as at least in the past before PDE unregistered stock had to be sold a lot cheaper, that is why the 'alternative' registries came into being to give a veneer of respectability to the puppies produced, with many people thinking it was similar or same as KC reg.

> Gwen I don't believe endorsements work because breeders are buying American cockers et al to breed. Big time breeders still breed and produce unregistered puppies.

Breeders only have 2 options if they are selling as pets only, either to endorse or to withold registrations.  Neither will actually prevent bitches being bred from, the only way to do this is to wait unitl the puppy is mature and spey or neuter before selling, which is not practical in most cases.

Most of us try to do as thorough a job as possible in making sure the pet enquiries are genuine, and to be honest if anyone enquires about a pup from me for a pet then quibbles about an endorsement, they just don't get a pup, as I can't see why it would make any difference to them if they genuinely want a pet.  Rarely get an enquiry for a show pup from someone we don't already know to some degree, and quite often the show prospects are sold with co-owner tie ups so that control over breeding can be maintained.

We don't have many "Big time Breeders" in Yankees, and thankfully they are not one of hte most popular breed for puppy farmser, although there are some puppy farmed and bay yard breeder bred ones around - we see a fair percentage in rescue.> It is a big problem because most people looking for puppies are first time or novices in the world of dog ownership. 

> It is a big problem because most people looking for puppies are first time or novices in the world of dog ownership. 

Novice buyers need to follow the usual good advice to puppy buyers, do research and look for reputalbe, knowledgable breeders, the best way to do this is to contact show breeders, discover they type you are looking for, and get on a waiting list.  Ask around, ask for references from happy puppy buyers, try to visit some shows to learn more.    

                                                              

                                                                   

Hi There im still searching for a little am cocker puppy,either sable ( i know this colour is rare but i just love it) or chocolate and tan or even chocolate.Must come from health tested parents,willing to wait for the right puppy and also travel anywhere in the uk . Thanks

Am cocker, advertsing on a general open forum is not necessarily the best route to find a pup when you are looking for such specific criteria.  Your only hope of finding a well bred, carefully reared pup from a good breeder is to contact breeders of this colour, meet up with them, assess their dogs and facilities, and then ask to go an a waiting list if you find a breeder who meets the standard you need.

I am on a waiting list but have had a few let downs in the past so thought i would still keep looking,also my little buff girls breeder is also helping me find the right puppy too.Incase you are wondering why im posting so late im in newyork at the moment so its not that late here.The american cocker isnt rare here at all so im in my glory meeting all the am cockers in central park,am ,loving it!!

American cockers aren't "rare" here, although the colours you want are not mainstream - partly because Sable is not a recognised colour in the USA  so not available to import from a show kennel, which severly limits  the ability to import a top quality dog or bitch into the UK, and partly because of the problems which have been associated with a lot of the Chocolates impoorted inot the UK and the resulting progeny.  However, "Cocker Spaniels" in the USA are one of the most popular breeds, whilst our "English Cocker" is in a minority over there - at the Spaniel Club show in January there are several hundred "American" Cockers, and only a couple of dozen "English" cockers, to give some idea o proportions/popularity, rouglhy the reverse of the UK.

My concern about advertising "Wanted"  is that you will get responses from pet/back yard breeders and puppy farmers, and will then fall for an unsuitable pup simply becasue it is the colour you want.  Fellow CDers, I am not suggesting any of us fit these categories, but that this forum is open to all to read and the OP is stepping inot a potential minefield in the breed.

By rare i meant you very raely see someone out walking an american cocker back home( i have seen 2 in the las t 2 years) whereas an english cocker you see ALL the time eveywhere you go so thats what i meant by rare.Here they just call them cockers and i see them everywhere.Isnt this section for searching for a particular breed?

I would definitely class as fairly rare, ok they aren't on the order of the Lagotto I groomed a couple of weeks back, but I have only twice in 8 years seen one outside a show ring. And yes this is a place to look for a breed, though mostly you will just get people suggesting the breed clubs, as that is the best place to look for puppies. Have you tried going to champ shows and speaking to owners of the colours you want (not when they are about to go in the ring!)?

>American cockers aren't "rare" here

I am on the waiting list for one of the colours i like but the chances of getting what i want are still slim.Before i got my little buff girl i was on the waiting list for a sable before the bitch was even waited and the litter was sadly absorbed so i know from experience things dont always go to plan.I have noticed a couple of so called breeders and their puppies dont look anything like my gorgeous girl who comes from a very well known and reliable breeder so even though im not experienced i do know there are some pretty awful breeders out there too.I love black and tan too but i have noticed an advert recently and one of the puppies looks lie a cavalier,found that a bit strange so i am very wary!

> I would definitely class as fairly rare,

Lucydogs,  the point I was trying to make to the OP was that a) in the USA what we class as the "Americna Cocker" is over their just the "Cocker" and is very numerous.  Over here we are not classed as a rare breed by any means, but certianly not as numerous as  the "English" cocker - we have somewhere in the region of 500 pups registered each year in the UK.  Perhaps it depends on where in the UK you live how often you see a Yankee?  In the past couple of week I saw a brace of Blacks on the outskirts of Newcastle, a parti colour in Durham, and an untrimmed Buff in the back of a 4WD in my own village, so yes, unsual enough for me to actively notice them, but not a rarity in this part of the world.

> And yes this is a place to look for a breed,

And my point about this not being the best place to look for such a specific requirment as the OP has was to attempt to protect her from unscrupulous breeders pushing "rare" colours onto somone who is desperate for a pup in that hard to find colour.  There are a VERY limited number of people breeding these colours here, and as mentioned above there are some problems associated with Chocloates in particular, so my advise (both as a breeder of longstanding, a loving owner of Yankees for over 20 years, and the co-ordinator of Rescue for 7 years) si to wait for a reptuable, caring breeder to have a litter for which you are on a waiting list.  There is not a short cut, and hoping to catch someone reading this who just happens to have such a puppy avialalbe is probably a route to a less than ideal breeder.  All the usual advice has been given to the OP, so I guess that sometimes however hard you try, some people jsut don't want to listen to good advice if it does not suit there own ideas.

>Perhaps it depends on where in the UK you live how often you see a Yankee? 

I think so; outside of shows I've only ever seen one, and that was a rescue dog.

Just thought id let you all know im still searching for my am cocker baby.Nearly found a pup but bitch didnt fall pregnant and although there may be a litter next year im going to continue my search just incase.If anyone knows of a litter from health tested parents please get in touch.Many thanks

Just came aross this form and i have to agree with Juan i do think it is a waste to KC a puppy to put restrictions on it. The KC paper is worth nothing if you can't do anything with it. A LOT of people want dogs as pets and don't want to breed but i think the choice should be there or if the breeder don't want them bred on KC then sell them without papers. People might as well buy pups with no papers than buy with endorsed pedigrees.

>i do think it is a waste to KC a puppy to put restrictions on it.

But the endorsements can be lifted in the future as long as the puppy grows up to be suitable for breeding from. Pups with no papers (unregistered pups) can never have their offspring registered; endorsed pups, under the right circumstances, can.

There does seem to be a lot of misunderstanding about the advantages of registering a puppy, the including of an endorsement is only a very tiny part of the advantages but important never the less. It is understandable those who are not breeding with the breeds future in mind would not see the advantage of registration and endorsement but that does not mean that those who care should not.

Many responsible breeders endorse all their litter (I do) including the ones they keep. 

If in the fullness of time they develop into sufficient quality individuals of the correct temperament and pass any breed specific and general Health screening, then the breeder can lift the endorsement.

Also a puppy without papers cannot be shown, one with endorsements can.

From a pet owners perspective the registration allows the owner to trace the background of their puppy, it's ancestry, their achievements in whichever sphere they may be interested in, and most importantly for every owner they can trace the health test/screening schemes that the ancestors have been subject too, which with appropriate results means they have a much better chance of knowing their puppy is much more likely to be free of these issues.

Many responsible breeders endorse all their litter

I have never bought in a puppy that was not endorsed, I expect it and would be worried if it were not.

If breeders endorse there own puppies and those going to friends then even more reason to do so if the pup is going to someone new to the breed or the breeder.

Can't see the problem, buy from a good breeder, keep in touch and once the pup is grown enough to see it's quality and take all the health tests with good results then the endorsement can be lifted.

Make sure of your breeder, take time and effort to make sure what you are buying and who you are buying from and you would be unfortunate to have a problem if your pup grows into a good example of the breed.

Many pups are bought as pets and then are shown - would think of the first time exhibitors over 90% would fit this example - if the pup is not registered you can not show but you can show whether the pup is endorsed or not what you can't do is breed and then register without asking your pups breeder to lift the endorsement and that should be no problem as by then your breeder will be your friend and you will know if your dog is good enough to breed..

It is a very good idea when breeders will lift the endoesrements as i firmly beleive all dogs bred with Kennel Club should be heath tested according to breed but not all breeders will lift endorsments even when dogs have been health tested etc. Many breeders of the high profile SHOW cockers will not lift at all. Some people i know have not bought puppies because they have had endorsements and have looked around and bought elsewhere even when both parents are health tested.

> It is a very good idea when breeders will lift the endoesrements as i firmly beleive all dogs bred with Kennel Club should be heath tested according to breed but not all breeders will lift endorsments even when dogs have been health tested etc.

I'm not clear what you are saying.  Are you saying all breeders should say they will lift endorsements when health testing is done to encourage breeding and therefore health testing?
Health testing is not the only issue that decides whether a dog is suitable for breeding. 
I suspect most breeders would be quite happy to lift an endorsement on a dog that has both done well in the show ring and his health tests.

>Many breeders of the high profile SHOW cockers will not lift at all.

That's their prerogative. You seem to think that it's someone's right to breed from an animal bought as a pet. If someone wouldn't want a puppy because it had endorsements I wouldn't sell to them anyway, because they don't necessarily have the pup's best interests at heart - rather their own pocket.

It is a very good idea when breeders will lift the endoesrements as i firmly beleive all dogs bred with Kennel Club should be heath tested according to breed but not all breeders will lift endorsments even when dogs have been health tested etc. Many breeders of the high profile SHOW cockers will not lift at all. Some people i know have not bought puppies because they have had endorsements and have looked around and bought elsewhere even when both parents are health tested.

Then it is up to those who are buying the pup to make sure under what conditions the enforcements will be lifted then there will be no problem. The breeder may ask for all the health tests to be taken and the results to be good and that the pup is consistently placed at championship shows - seems reasonable but if the puppy purchaser does not agree and the contract can not be changed then it is best not to buy and then expect the breeder to back down.

Responsible purchasers like responsible breeders should support the endorsement system particularly with those breeds that are over bred often with inferior animals

Like most things it is up to the purchaser to make sure they are buying what they want, and if they want to breed they need the best and the best will be endorsed.

I know of a litter in Bury St Edmunds, last I heard (a week or two ago) they had a couple of 10 week puppies still looking for a home, I don't know the people though, just groomed their dogs once some months back, bitch I seem to recall was the field coated (sparser and not like a modern show coat) one, no idea about the sire, and no idea about health testing, so I don't know if that's any use?

>Just thought id let you all know im still searching for my am cocker baby.Nearly found a pup but bitch didnt fall pregnant and although there may be a litter next year im going to continue my search just incase.If anyone knows of a litter from health tested parents please get in touch.Many thanks

> Like most things it is up to the purchaser to make sure they are buying what they want, and if they want to breed they need the best and the best will be endorsed.

This is probably going to sound awful but I'm going to make what I think is valid point. Some breeds are very difficult to get started in because they are numerically very small. Also I know some successful breeders who never sell "the best " to other showgoers.

Now not all puppy buyers are newcomers to dog showing & breeding. They may simply want to add a second breed and not want to go down the route of buying in a pet quality pup and then hope that they will become 'known' in their new breed whereupon someone might then sell them a nice puppy. So sometimes someone new to a breed might consider breeding from their half-decent bitch, provided its temperament is good and the relevant health tests turn out OK. But their starter bitch may well lack breed type.

If the breeder who endorsed the pup will not lift it, the hopeful new showgoer/breeder will never be able to get started in their new breed. And that's not always a good thing for the breed. All breeds can benefit from new blood, amongst the people as well as the dogs. Stability is one thing, stagnation is quite another.

But I do agree that the puppy buyer should always make it clear what they are looking for.

I am in a numerically small breed and we are crying out for new people to come into the breed.  In under 20 years registrations have halved.

Most breeders these days can keep only a half dozen dogs or less (one per generation), so they will always have pick of the opposite sex to what they are keeping or pick if not keeping one (if you only bred once from a bitch then numbers and gene pool would be even smaller) available for someone serious, or even just wanting to have a go at showing.

I have gone abroad to mate my bitch and yet failed to find a serious home for any of the males which were superior in quality to the bitches, (I don't keep males) they all ended up in pet only homes ;(

The problem you mention may well be the case in breeds that have small litters, or are themselves small so easier to keep in larger numbers or run on and pet home as older puppies.

If the breeder who endorsed the pup will not lift it,

This is why you should make sure you agree the terms of the contract before you purchase your puppy, if you do that and conform to the requirements of the contract the KC will lift the endorsement if the breeder will not.

I have a breed where the numbers are very small but all our breeders endorse their pups and all lift if the pup proves worthy. As far as I am aware the only way you will get one that is not endorsed will be from a puppy farm in Ireland or a BYB. So not the sort of pup you would want anyway even if you are looking for a pet not to breed or show, mind you there are many a change of mind when someone buys a well bred pup and suddenly finds themselves in the show ring and hooked for life.

EDIT: Just read Brainless post and agree we are crying out for new breeders of the right kind but it is an expensive hobby and people just find it too difficult to devote a large lump of their life to breeding.

> The problem you mention may well be the case in breeds that have small litters, or are themselves small so easier to keep in larger numbers or run on and pet home as older puppies.

Yes, that's exactly it. Not an easy thing to remedy I know.

>I am in a numerically small breed and we are crying out for new people to come into the breed.

If only I needed a medium sized breed I'd be beating down your door!

>EDIT: Just read Brainless post and agree we are crying out for new breeders of the right kind but it is an expensive hobby and people just find it too difficult to devote a large lump of their life to breeding.

I'm retired now and have all the time in the world. But sadly not all the the money in the world - the price of diesel for one thing is just appalling! I pick & choose my shows these days

> the price of diesel for one thing is just appalling! I pick & choose my shows these days

Ditto, we are doing half the shows I used to do, only about 10 or 12 a year compared to double that.

Think this may be a problem for the breeding of quality pups at the moment, despite what some people think to do the job as it should be done costs a lot particularly if you have to take 8 or so weeks off work and the bitch or pups need vet help.

All hobbies cost money but there is no way you can follow this one and cut corners, I do fear that the breed Brainless and I favour will be in deep trouble if we do not have an input of new breeders who have the inclination to learn from the experienced breeders, study the  effect of genetics and the pedigrees available to them and the money and time to develop their own lines.

Me too, I wish I wanted Brainless' breed instead of the one I am in love with!

>If only I needed a medium sized breed I'd be beating down your door!