I wasnt sure which category to put this under. Sorry if wrong one as it is a behaviour problem but linked to post whelp.
We put the whelping box in the corner of the living room four weeks before her due date. She went in and out of it and seemed to like being tucked away in a corner. Just like her mum did, 2 1/2" years ago she refused to stay in the box during whelping and had her pups on the settee. Luckily I was prepared for this with plenty of towels etc. Its an old settee so not worried about that. Following whelping put pups into whelping box and she went in for a a couple of hours but couldnt seem to settle. During the night she was very restless and doing lots of digging, which I expected, but it was more than that!! On the second night, she brought one of the pups to me (I was "sleeping" (some hopes lol) on the settee and she got into the feeding position. She was suddenly quiet and calm. I brought the other pups for a feed and she was perfectly happy. Next day I took the big cushions off the settee and she settled into the corner where she had had her pups. Had to stuff paper down the sides so they wouldnt disappear. I managed to get some sleep as she and pups quieter than they had been before. She refuses to have vet bed under the pups and just digs it off each time I put it on. The poor pups go flying so have to be on guard all the time.The trouble is, she tends to dig frantically before feeding them and she is now making holes in the webbing. It just isnt a good place to be. I really dont know what to do. Can anyone help?

Perhaps your best bet would be to remove the sofa completely and see if she will accept the whelping box once it has gone?

If she were mine I would make her stay in the whelping box and watch her, you will need to pretty much until eyes open anyway.

I make my whelping box out of puppy pen panels, lined up the sides with cardboard with a panel on top so that I can drape a blanket on top to make a den.

This means if need be I can shut the pen door, or leave open for bitch to come and go as she pleases.

Are you sure the pups are not too hot, with current humid weather this can make a bitch restless.

I've always used a closed whelping box and not had a bitch unhappy to stay there in 25 years, but I am always sleeping on the floor at the side during the night and very near during the day until the pups are about 4 weeks old.  I would consider anywhere other than the whelping box unsafe for dam and pups.

Closed whelping box and I would never allow any of mine to have theirs on the sofa.  Though in reality one wouldn't have hers in the cage but had the litter outside, bit of a pain in the middle of the night LOL.  Once finished pups all put in the cage with mum and she was a great parent.

Same here, the whelping box is in the cupboard under the stairs, sounds awful   but in reality it's nice and private but still in the living room and guaranteed draught free.  The whelping box goes to the back facing forward and takes up the whole width of  about half the cupboard.  The whelping box is usually very thick cardboard so solid sides and half front (raised after whelping) with a large fleece draped over the top and hanging down in front.  Bitch can see out and I can see in, but it's very private.  I sleep on a blow-up mattress right by so I can see in without getting up   the whelping box is moved into a pen in the living room when the pups start climbing out

Two bitches have had their litters there and been very happy   in fact, they often go and 'have a look' in, despite it being a 'glory hole' most of the time LOL   so does my youngest who was born there  

Thank-you all. I can see that now. Her box isnt private enough. Will have a think what I can do to make her feel more secure. I do need to get them off that sofa. Not safe. Unfortunately to huge to take out and kids away so will have to rig something better up. Thanks again.x

Well, I managed to find the metal puppy pen sides in the garage. I usually use these when puppies get up and about. I have put this around the back and sides of the box and draped a cotton sheet over the top.
She did try to bring one pup out but I made her take it back in. I think she knows I am a soft touch so will have to be more firm. This breed can be very strong willed.
She still wont settle if there is any vet bed or any other base covering. I have tried several different ones but she just scratches it up. she seems to be looking for a missing pup. Well thats the impression I get. Have just put a few layers of newspaper in now and she is happier about that!! Lets hope we both have a good night! At least I can sleep on the settee now and not on the cushions on the floor!
I'm not usually so stupid, honestly. Her mum did settle in the whelping box both times so assumed her girl would.
Thank-you so much.

do you have a paper shredder?  If so I have found that some shredded paper in the bottom of the bed for bitches that don't want bedding will help insulate pups (and take up any damp) and Mum can scratch about without doing harm.

> do you have a paper shredder

Yes I do, thank-you I will definitely try that. We had a better night with her in her cave! She seemed totally relaxed. Around 6 this morning, she starting to sound anxious again. then she brought the smallest pup to me.(tiny twin from previous post) I told her no, and put him back in the box. Had to do this several times. She is now relaxed and feeding again. Why is it always him? Is she asking me to help her feed him ?(I am topping him up as he gets pushed out) He is doing fine. The rate he is going, he will definiely double his weight by day 7. Is she trying to push him out? I feel as though I am letting her down as I dont know what she wants. I wonder if they cover this sort of thing on dog behaviour courses.
The other thing is, her mum has been staying with friends whilst she got over the whelping. I have to bring her home tomorrow as friends are going away. I wonder if this will make things worse. I wonder if she is looking for her mum and things will improve. Maybe it will persuade her that her cave is the best place to be with another dog around. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

I would definitely not allow her Mum anywhere near the whelping quarters until pups are open, or more like two weeks.  You do not want to increase yoru whelped bitches stress levels.

Mum needs to feel her pups are safe, and other dogs can be a danger, in fact if her Mum is higher ranking she would feel threatened, remember in the wild if a lower ranking female had puppies they would most likely be killed.

It doesn't happen often in our domestic environment, but I have heard of at least one case of another bitch killing a rivals litter.

I know some people allow free access to other dogs to their litters from the start and Mum's are happy, but this is not the norm, most bitches will not be happy with other canines around their vulnerable young until they are mobile.

Thank-you Brainless. That is really useful advice. I brought grandma home and got them both together in the kitchen. They were really pleased to see each other. Then we went outside and they both joined in barking at some kids playing outside. I then decided to  take grandma upstairs, where her bed is. She passed the open whelping room door and glanced in. Mum told her in no uncertain terms that she was not welcome. Poor grandma was obviously shocked. Lots of snarly noise. I have now put a gate on the whelping room door (my living room) Grandma cant jump over this although mum can so she can come and go as she pleases. I think once mum sees that grandma cant get in, she will not need to feel she has to defend her property. At one point, mum went upstairs and touched her mum and then went back down. Just checking where she was but the silly part of me hopes she was making up. One thing I was very pleased with was the fact that mum, only shortly after this happened, settled down with her pups for a feed, so no harm done thank-goodness.

Hi Annie,

[At one point, mum went upstairs and touched her mum and then went back down. Just checking where she was but the silly part of me hopes she was making up./i]

Awwwww. Bless. I think so too Annie.

I have a baby gate between kitchen and living room (these days whelping box is in living room rather than bedroom when kids were young).  Mu  is let in and out to go outside (though kitchen) and the others aren't allowed in living room for the first weeks.

That works fine with mine, as you say as long as they know no-one can interfere with her babies..

> Two bitches have had their litters there and been very happy   in fact, they often go and 'have a look' in, despite it being a 'glory hole' most of the time LOL   so does my youngest who was born there  

Laughing!  For a moment there, I thought you meant that YOUR youngest was born there!     

Sounds like they will be fine once puppies are a little older, if mum is happy to see her own mum but just not have her near the puppies. I haven't had 2 bitches myself, but my girl has always been happy to have my boys around the puppies, and interestingly as I am a groomer, I have discovered she doesn't mind other people's dogs of the same breed being near, but strongly objected to dogs of other breeds whether big or small, at least when puppy was very young.

LOL Jean - I wish!

All is well after taking your advice(s) (no such word)?  Anyway, the gate on the living room door has completely done the trick. She can get out, as she can jump over (little madam) but her mum cant. I also have my daughter's dog here and the three exchange stories at the living room door, through the gate. Its working really well. Grandma thinks she has had the pups though!! Found her in her bed with two balls, which she used to do during phantoms. Shes been spayed now so hopefully that will pass. Thank-you all again. x