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Previous Next Up Topic Dog Boards / Health / worming pregnant bitches and young pups
By PennyGC (***) [gb] Date 09.11.11 15:28 GMT
Questions about this come up frequently - it's clear of course that many people only read about it when they need to know.  I'd just like to confirm that whilst many people on here haven't had any problems with Panacur wormers I have and I know a large number of other people who've also had problems.  It wouldn't be right for just those who haven't had issues with Panacur to give their advice - so I'll continue to offer my advice and to recommend Drontal.  This way a more balanced view is given and people seeking advice can make their minds given a range of opinions. 

I hope that no one suffers like others have with these issues but I couldn't live with myself for not giving warning to those who haven't previously heard.  Sorry for those who've heard from me before, but that's life, I constantly read the same advice and recommendations myself on here :-)
Agility is fun
By Stooge (***) [gb] Date 09.11.11 15:34 GMT
Please note pharmacists do not recommend Drontal in pregnancy.
http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Drontal-Plus-Dog-Wormer/productinfo/DRONPLUS/
By PennyGC (***) [gb] Date 09.11.11 15:46 GMT
Contact Drontal directly and they'll give you the recommendations for pregnant bitches - it's the safest wormer for pregnant bitches and also young pups.  They don't put the information on the packaging, but happy to advise.  I haven't heard of any losses of litters or deformities when using Drontal, but have with Panacur (I had a pup with optic nerve problems myself). 
Agility is fun
By Stevensonsign (**) [gb] Date 09.11.11 16:26 GMT
if it is a planned mating and regular worming has been done  for your bitch anyway I would never interfere with a bitchs confinement with any chemicals what so ever , I use a worming syrup for baby pups , and then recommended dosage of Drontal with no side effects so far  .
By Rhodach (***) [gb] Date 09.11.11 17:11 GMT
By 40 days into the pregnancy a pup has finished developing all the parts of the body and just needs to mature for a few more weeks, so having optic nerve problems is an unfortunate birth defect which would have happened whether the bitch was wormed or not. Panacur is the only wormer licenced in the UK to be given to pregnant bitches.

If Drontal is safe in canine pregnancy then why does it not say so on the box/paperwork that comes with it, being told it is OK over the phone does not cover you if those pups are born with problems and you get back to the manufacturer who denies any such info was given.
Rhona and the Long,Low and Level Hounds
By Brainless (*****) [gb] Date 09.11.11 17:35 GMT Edited 09.11.11 17:41 GMT
Also the reason for worming in pregnancy is to reduce larval transfer to puppies, so a product that works on the larval stages needs to be used. 

Everything I have read suggests that Drontal does not treat these early larval stages which is why it is administered more frequently to puppies (every two weeks) rather than every 3 - 4 weeks for Panacur.
Barbara and the Grey Curly Tails.
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 09.11.11 22:55 GMT

>If Drontal is safe in canine pregnancy then why does it not say so on the box/paperwork that comes with it,


And the link to a pharmaceutical site shows that DRONTAL advise that you use PANACUR 10% because IT IS recommended for use in pregnant bitches. 
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By drover (**) [gb] Date 11.11.11 12:53 GMT
I contacted drontal (bayer) and was adviced NOT to use drontal on a pregnant bitch, but to worm the pups at 2 weeks and every 2 weeks thereafter, and also worm the bitch at the same time.

I have to say, the only wormer I would use on a pregnant bitch is one that is licenced to do so...therefore panacur.
By PennyGC (***) [gb] Date 11.11.11 15:22 GMT
Drontal is the best wormer and the safest to give to in-whelp bitches and young pups.  I have heard of no problems with it.  I have heard of many many problems with Panacur.  Contact Drontal directly and they'll be happy to give information on giving their products to in-whelp bitches.  I had problems with Panacur, other people have lost whole litters.  I'm not bothered by people who don't want to listen, but would like those who are interested to have an awareness of the issues - this isn't given if people merely try to drown out comments given to help.

I won't give Panacur, many other people won't give Panacur.  Those who wont give Drontal and no problems.  It's down to individual choice, the fact that you've had no problems - well I hope that you never do, but I wouldn't feel right not speaking out.  I will continue to do so.
Agility is fun
By Stooge (***) [gb] Date 11.11.11 15:27 GMT

> Contact Drontal directly and they'll be happy to give information on giving their products to in-whelp bitches.


Isn't that what Drover has said they have done in the post directly above yours confused

>I'm not bothered by people who don't want to listen


I don't know why I bother either :-)
By Brainless (*****) [gb] Date 11.11.11 15:57 GMT
I have used Panacur with no issues in pregnant bitches for 6 generations all producing healthy pups, who have generally been bigger than average for the breed.

As Panacur is not administered until after all the vital systems have formed any connection to birth defects is most unlikely.

the only issue I ever had was in the pups themselves on second worming at 5 weeks with my third litter.

I returned to previous vets advice to worm at 3 and 7 weeks and had no more issues other than slightly reduced appetite on second or third day of dosing and the occasional slight looseness.

Bearing in mind vermifuges are strong chemicals this is understandable and I know from speaking to other breeders can happen whatever product is used.

As Panacur is specifically licensed for use in pregnancy to reduce to negligible levels the transference of worm larva to pups in utero, I am happy with my slightly modified worming protocol, ie only twice (3 and 7 weeks) before 8 weeks of age.

I have never had evidence of any worms in Mum or pups (in fact never seen any in any of my own dogs.
Barbara and the Grey Curly Tails.
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 11.11.11 18:56 GMT

>Contact Drontal directly and they'll be happy to give information on giving their products to in-whelp bitches.


See Drover's post immediately before yours ...

>I contacted drontal (bayer) and was adviced NOT to use drontal on a pregnant bitch,

A closed mouth gathers no feet
By suzywuzy (*) [gb] Date 13.11.11 10:15 GMT
Would it be bad not to worm at all during pregnancy?. I did use panacur when i last thought my dog was pregnant but as it turned out she wasn't
I didn't realise there was an issue with panacur but used it on advice.
By lilyowen (**) Date 13.11.11 10:37 GMT

> but have with Panacur (I had a pup with optic nerve problems myself). 


Just wondering what problems you had with your dog and how you knew they were caused by the panacur?
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 13.11.11 10:55 GMT

>Would it be bad not to worm at all during pregnancy?


The puppies would be guaranteed to be born wormy (pregnancy activates the worm larvae that are encysted in tissue other than the gut) and so will be challenged to thrive from the outset.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By suzywuzy (*) [gb] Date 13.11.11 11:07 GMT
So it is best to worm them then?. On her last mating she showed symptoms of pregnancy so i treated her as such and wormed her but when the vet scanned there were no puppies.
I'm hoping this time she is. She was mated 15 days ago and again 13 days ago. As a matter of interest as i know you can't tell for quite a while, i was wondering what the earliest was that people knew their dog was pregnant.
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 13.11.11 11:16 GMT

>So it is best to worm them then?.


Definitely, and despite what you might read, Panacur is certainly the safest and most effective for the vast majority. It isn't given until after the whelps are fully formed so can't cause deformities.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By suzywuzy (*) [gb] Date 13.11.11 14:08 GMT
Thanks for your answer. That is very helpful.
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