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By 3kidsinsane Date 25.02.12 16:25 GMT
Why do breeders charge more for bitches or for certain colours of pups?
By Stooge (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 16:30 GMT
Various reasons.  I know some breeders charge slightly more for bitches because they always have so much more demand than for the dogs and it encourages people to consider a dog.  In other breeds however, dogs are just as popular.  I suppose the same could be true of colours.
However, if a great deal more is being charged I would suggest there is a commercial motive and probably not a breeder to be considered all round.
By Goldmali (****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 16:32 GMT
I've never, ever heard of a RESPONSIBLE breeder charging more for bitches or for certain colours -that is a fairly typical bench mark of a backyard breeder.
Marianne. Dogs are not our whole lives, there are cats too!
By dogs a babe (****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 16:38 GMT
In my limited experience I'd suggest this says more about the breeder than it does of the supposed rarity value of a certain colour or the perceived value of bitches.  From what I can remember of the breeds you are considering you could very easily find yourself looking at a puppy farmer and I'd suggest you access the breed clubs for some more advice about where and whom to look at.

Have you decided on a breed yet?  If so, you could get some more detailed advice if you tell us which one.  There are also likely to be some breed experts on here that could tell you what to look for and, possibly more helpfully, what to avoid! :-)
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see ~Mark Twain
By Stooge (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 16:46 GMT Edited 25.02.12 16:48 GMT

> I've never, ever heard of a RESPONSIBLE breeder charging more for bitches or for certain colours


I have just followed dogsababes comments to discover we may be talking about cockers here and I can definately say this does occur in cockers and amongst perfectly respectable breeders.
Some twenty years ago I bought an orange roan bitch.  Her brother, a blue roan, became a champion but I am pretty sure I paid more for her! :-)
Having said that, dogsababes right, the breeds being looked at are frequently breed by the dodgy but there is far more to be wary of that a price difference between the sexes.  General advise, as ever, to be found on the KC website.
By 3kidsinsane Date 25.02.12 17:05 GMT
I was just wondering in general really.  We have decided on a bichon and have chosen the breeder (she wont have a litter till late next year if at all).  If she decided not to have another then she said she would be able to help find us our pup.  I have seen ads that there is 200-400 price difference in sex or colour.  I just look at it in the way that a good breeder shouldnt be looking to make a big profit, they dont do any extra work for the different sex/colour so why charge more.  If the breeder thinks 1 of the pups is good enough to breed from but has already decided to keep 1 for that purpose then maybe charge slightly more to another breeder (obviously a reputable 1) but for just a pet home i think its just money grabbing
By lilyowen (**) Date 25.02.12 17:14 GMT

> I've never, ever heard of a RESPONSIBLE breeder charging more for bitches or for certain colours -that is a fairly typical bench mark of a backyard breeder.


Not necessarily. It can be a breed thing. I was charged more for a dog puppy than a bitch when I bought my first pedigree dog bought from a very well respected breeder. I do know other breeds where it is perfectly normal to charge more for one sex than the other and nothing to do with poor breeders.
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 17:16 GMT
I often see puppy adverts saying "dogs 500, bitches 525" or sometimes 550, but there's not usually much more difference than that. Before the days of safe spaying, bitches weren't popular at all among pet owners, seasons and unwanted litters being far too much trouble, but times have changed.

>I have seen ads that there is 200-400 price difference in sex or colour.


The colour doesn't apply to bichons - they're always white - but in some breeds certain colours are undesirable and not to standard so the pups should be somewhat cheaper.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By 3kidsinsane Date 25.02.12 17:20 GMT
There's a litter on here at the moment and there is 200 difference.  I suppose i just dont understand why 1 would cost more than the other
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 17:22 GMT
I'd steer clear of a price hike as big as that. That sounds dodgy to me.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By 3kidsinsane Date 25.02.12 17:22 GMT
but in some breeds certain colours are undesirable and not to standard so the pups should be somewhat cheaper.

Ok that does make sense.  In that case its not that 1 is more expensive but that 1 is cheaper (does that make sense?). 
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 17:26 GMT
In some breeds (thinking Staffies here) there are certain colours that are hyped as being as 'rare' and therefore are currently perceived as being more fashionable and mugs will pay over the odds for them, and the greeders will happily relieve them of their money.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By 3kidsinsane Date 25.02.12 17:29 GMT
hmmm had a look on their website and they take debit and credit cards.  Its not a bichon, its a bulldog.  Would that make a difference?  They were on the shortlist of possibles for us but i ruled them out due to health issues
By CVL (**) [gb] Date 25.02.12 17:29 GMT
A little off topic, but do 'show quality' pups cost more in some breeds?  My current two were the same price as pet pups, but I don't know if this is standard or if, for example, I went to one of the most successful show kennels in the UK, I wonder if I'd be charged more. It's not something I like to discuss though - when I got Melvin I remember panicking at the last minute because I had no idea how much I needed to pay for him!!
By Lexy (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 17:50 GMT

> I've never, ever heard of a RESPONSIBLE breeder charging more for bitches or for certain colours -that is a fairly typical bench mark of a backyard breeder.


That is deffinately not true...my breed has those who charge the same  & those that do charge slightly more for a bitch(only 50 normally) ourselves being one of those & WE ARE RESPONSIBLE breeders & certainly NOT byb!!!!!
I am sure that there are other breeds or breeders whom do the same, being perfectly responsible breeders too...that is just such a sweeping statement to make...you can not tat all with the same brush you know!!
Live life on a daily basis cos tomorrow might never come!!!
By 3kidsinsane Date 25.02.12 17:53 GMT Edited 25.02.12 17:59 GMT
OK so why do you charge more for a bitch?  Its a genuine question not having a go.  Different breeds cost different amounts i get that but why, from the same litter could a dog and bitch cost different
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 17:58 GMT
I think they expect to be selling to the type of person who uses bitches as a 'nice little earner' - breed a litter or two and make a bit of money. :-(
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By AlisonGold (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:04 GMT
I don't believe there should be ANY difference although years ago I paid more for a bitch and a friend paid less for dog from the same litter after all they are all reared the same and all fed the same food. At the moment in our breed dogs are more desirable and I would reckon in the last 2 months I have had upwards of 20 enquiries for dogs. If I were you I wouldn't touch anything from someone who takes debit and credit cards as that is a business.
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
By Stooge (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:14 GMT

>but why, from the same litter could a dog and bitch cost different


I think I gave the answer for at least some breeders in my first post :-)
By suejaw (****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:15 GMT

> but do 'show quality' pups cost more in some breeds?  My current two were the same price as pet pups


If there is nothing wrong with any of the pups, they are all from the same breeder then they should all be sold at the same price, just because imo someone wants to compete or show their dog doesn't mean they should pay any more than if that pup ended up in a home where they didn't partake in certain activities. The breeder should of put the same amount of time and effort into the whole litter, so unless any health issues come about or any defects etc then what your breeder has done is what I would expect and again a sign to me of a good breeder....
By dogs a babe (****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:16 GMT Edited 25.02.12 18:22 GMT

> hmmm had a look on their website and they take debit and credit cards.


Other questions and answers aside - this is what would have me running for hills

Avoid avoid avoid
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see ~Mark Twain
By PDAE (**) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:16 GMT
charge the same price for mine!
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:19 GMT Edited 25.02.12 18:22 GMT

>A little off topic, but do 'show quality' pups cost more in some breeds? 


Yes, slightly, because with show potential (not 'show quality' - there are too many things that can turn a promising pup into a duck!)pups there are more activities open to the buyer if they want to do them than with a 'purely pet' pup.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By Merlot (***) Date 25.02.12 18:23 GMT
Same price for me as well... I would only drop a price for a very overmarked pup as it would not be classed as of show quality! (whatever that may be) all my pups are bred to be good examples of the breed including the health temperament and care taken over the litters background planning. After all my pups are bred to make great family pets first and formost, with the hope that the litter would include at least 1 or 2 extra special show pups. Boys or Girls they all take the same time and effort to produce.
Aileen
"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, to bark loudly in your ear!
By furriefriends (****) Date 25.02.12 18:30 GMT
I have noticed the difference in bitches and dogs in pomeranians, from what I can see it seems to be fairly standard in that breed.
By Brainless (*****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:34 GMT

> I just look at it in the way that a good breeder shouldnt be looking to make a big profit, they dont do any extra work for the different sex/colour so why charge more. 


Quite right, in the majority of breeds.
Barbara and the Grey Curly Tails.
By Brainless (*****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 18:46 GMT

> I have noticed the difference in bitches and dogs in pomeranians, from what I can see it seems to be fairly standard in that breed.


Now in toy breeds that only average two pups for a litter I can understand, as it is very hard to get a bitch to show or breed from, as the breeder will rarely be able to offer a bitch pup, if they wish to breed on the next generation they tend to keep a bitch from most litters until they see how they turn out, and whether they will even be able to breed from them, or show them.

I think Lucy on the forum was finding ti very hard to find a quality bitch puppy to show, as with fairly small litters and then markings to consider as well as size structure and attitude it can be hard to get one that ticks all the boxes and promising toy pups are easier to run on, and then home when older if they don't make the grade than many larger breeds..
Barbara and the Grey Curly Tails.
By CVL (**) [gb] Date 25.02.12 19:45 GMT
Thanks, sounds like cost variations for show-potential pups may differ from breed to breed. I only asked because I overheard my old ringcraft teacher telling someone to go back to the breeder for a refund of the difference in price between a show and a pet pup!!
By St.Domingo (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 20:40 GMT
I recently enquired about a bitch pup as a pet only.
This one was not for breeding due to her small size and the pedigree was endorsed as such and she was 450 more than I would expect to pay for a pup.
By furriefriends (****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 20:46 GMT
Thanks brainless I had thought about but always nice to hear something from somone with knowledge
By tooolz (****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 21:00 GMT
I breed toy dogs, some from champion bitches and Id never think to charge more for a bitch. Perhaps those who do, expect the bitch to be more valuable because it will make money :-(
By Trialist (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 21:00 GMT
Absolutely no idea. In my book, bitch or dog, they're of equal value :-D
"How many"?!
By marisa (**) [gb] Date 25.02.12 21:06 GMT
I had dogs and bitches, merles as well as tris and b/w in my litter - all the same price.
By Rhodach (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 21:11 GMT
I charge the same regardless of sex/colour or pattern, dachsies come in so many colour/pattern combinations[even more in US and Canada] but none are rare, true creams used to cost a fortune, I rang a breeder whose name I got from a couple of breed clubs to enquire after a cream dachsie back in 2004, he told me 2000 for male and 2500 for a bitch, I told him I was only wanting one pup not the whole litter, other breeders ranged from 550-750 which wasn't any different from any other colours/patterns available at the time, creams first appearred about mid 80's so plenty of time for them to become more readily available.

There are breeders who charge depending on colour/pattern but I can't figure out why and I haven't bothered to ask, I wouldn't pay over the odds myself.
Rhona and the Long,Low and Level Hounds
By Boxacrazy (***) [gb] Date 25.02.12 21:59 GMT
With Boxers it was common place to only ask half the normal price of a coloured puppy for whites.
As it cannot be shown in the UK nor ethically would you breed a white.

However some breeders try to say that whites are rare and price them accordingly.
White Boxers aren't rare....

Most breeders I know in my breed do not price colours/sexes differently...however I am sure that there will
be exceptions to the 'norm'...
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 25.02.12 23:46 GMT

>he told me 2000 for male and 2500 for a bitch, I told him I was only wanting one pup not the whole litter,


LOL!!  I would have loved to have seen the face of that breeder!  :-)  :-)

I do find it difficult when everyone who asks me about pups, seems to want a bitch.  As Barbara has already pointed out, an average of 1-3 pups in a litter doesn't have you spoiled for choice!  I was once so desperate for a bitch (for ME) that I actually mated up 2 of my girls quite close together.  One didn't take, and the other had 2 boys.  :-(   As it happens, one went to a show home, and the other went to a pet home.  But the previous 2 pups that I had kept were both boys.

I admit that I have found it a lot easier with enquiries for "show quality bitch pups" since I have perfected my response.  When people say they want a show quality bitch now, I say so do I, could you let me know if you find where any are available.

Barbara is also right about the logistics of keeping your females.  You don't get that many.  You don't know for a while if they will be suitable for your breeding programme.  And they are easily spayed and kept on as Aunties if they don't suit.  With the majority of breeds you don't have the luxury of it being viable to keep all your bitches.  If a bitch pup looks totally unsuitable for my needs, I know that a little one can fit in quite easily with people that have had dogs from me.  People that I already know, and know that they will be spayed.
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By Rhodach (***) [gb] Date 26.02.12 00:22 GMT
Jean the phone conversation came to a very abrupt end. When I got to know more folk in the breed I asked them was this breeder very special or something and no one had heard of him and his affix has never appeared on any cream dachsie pedigree I have ever seen. I found his website a few weeks later but you needed a password to access it, very strange.

My litters are only small too so not much choice when it comes to keeping a bitch back for yourself, I won't be keeping any more males, I have 2 now, one is my first dachsie and the other is the pick of the litter from my first litter, they get on well thankfully as both are easy going but wouldn't risk adding any more to the mix.
Rhona and the Long,Low and Level Hounds
By Goldmali (****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 00:31 GMT
I am sure that there are other breeds or breeders whom do the same, being perfectly responsible breeders too...that is just such a sweeping statement to make...you can not tat all with the same brush you know!!

So what possible good  and responsible reason could there be? I'm stating fact, I (I) have never heard of a responsible breeder charging more. You only need to look at any local paper's small ads, or the well-known puppy ad sites to see that the BYB very typically charge more for bitches and I'd run a mile from anyone who did. Do bitch pups cost more to rear? Cost more to register? No.
Marianne. Dogs are not our whole lives, there are cats too!
By Goldmali (****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 00:36 GMT
I admit that I have found it a lot easier with enquiries for "show quality bitch pups" since I have perfected my response.  When people say they want a show quality bitch now, I say so do I, could you let me know if you find where any are available.

:-) My response is usually that it would be very rare for me to be able to sell a bitch pup in my toybreed (unless mismarked, or unless the entire litter consisted of bitches). However I would still not charge more for any that I might have available.
Marianne. Dogs are not our whole lives, there are cats too!
By Goldmali (****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 00:39 GMT
In some breeds (thinking Staffies here) there are certain colours that are hyped as being as 'rare'

Talking about that, did anyone read the recent article in DW where it said as many as around 50 % of all Staffies that are born are in fact blue?! So much for rare!!
Marianne. Dogs are not our whole lives, there are cats too!
By dogs a babe (****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 00:59 GMT

> That is deffinately not true...my breed has those who charge the same & those that do charge slightly more for a bitch(only 50 normally) ourselves being one of those & WE ARE RESPONSIBLE breeders & certainly NOT byb!!!!!


Lexy - do you do it because it's what others in your breed do, or is there another reason why you feel bitches should be more expensive?

I must admit that as a buyer I find it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable; I was always told that it's a practise common to 'for profit' breeders.  Actually it just doesn't happen with reputable breeders in any of the gundog breeds I've ever researched so I wonder how common it really is in other groups...  I have seen it with the online puppy selling places, or back of the paper adverts
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see ~Mark Twain
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 07:59 GMT

>the recent article in DW where it said as many as around 50 % of all Staffies that are born are in fact blue?!


Yes I saw that! I think a quality blue staffy is rare though! ;-)
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By Stooge (***) [gb] Date 26.02.12 09:38 GMT

> I (I) have never heard of a responsible breeder charging more.


I can appreciate that but it does not then follow that all that do are irresponsible, just that you have not had any experience of them :-).
As I say, it is not uncommon amongst breeders of a decent reputation in my breed and for the reasons I have given.  I guess it is just one of those cultures that develop in one breed and not another. :-)
By Boody (***) [gb] Date 26.02.12 21:16 GMT
It's getting quite common in our breed now as litters are so few on the ground and are not very large either, all are from very good breeders.
By Carrington (****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 21:41 GMT
I have seen ads that there is 200-400 price difference in sex or colour.  I just look at it in the way that a good breeder shouldnt be looking to make a big profit,

There could be another reason for the price difference...........

The hiked price, may infact be the correct normal price for a pup coming from KC registered parents with all breed related health checks done, reared in good conditions and with the best care.

The lower price may be a pup from none registered parents, no health checks done and reared in a kennel or shed in the back garden.

You need to look into what you are getting for your money. :-)

The breeder takes credit and debit cards................ummmm...............do you pay online too without visiting the pups? Sounds like a business and puppy farmer, also is this a UK or American site? Times do change and perhaps some breeders have begun to take credit and debit cards as well as cash and cheques, I guess on that alone we shouldn't rule people out on hearing that, but I would certainly pull away after seeing that instinctually, but I could be wrong.

More digging, more finding out, and definitely more footwork to visit the 'breeders' personally prior to mating or whilst the bitch is in whelp, do not ever buy via photo's or internet sites, visit, visit, visit. :-)
By Carrington (****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 22:04 GMT
Oh, sorry (my brain is draining down now, been a long day) I've read that wrongly haven't I?

It's not 200-400 from different breeders, you've seen adds where a dog or bitch from the same breeder is 200-400 price difference eek ....................... that is scandalous if so, though I've never seen anything quite that drastic whilst browsing occasionally as you do. :-)

Generally if any difference it's approx 50 there is no reasoning for such a price hike. eek! It's almost as if the breeder is saying the bitch is worth such an excessive amount more due to it's breeding possibilities there is no other reason for it. :-(
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 26.02.12 22:48 GMT

>It's almost as if the breeder is saying the bitch is worth such an excessive amount more due to it's breeding possibilities


Mmmmm!   While people like you and me put breeding restrictions on our litters.  (Even on one I am keeping.)
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By JaneS (Moderator) [gb] Date 26.02.12 22:53 GMT

> As I say, it is not uncommon amongst breeders of a decent reputation in my breed and for the reasons I have given.  I guess it is just one of those cultures that develop in one breed and not another.


Actually I think things have changed if you're talking about Cockers - it may have been the case some years ago (when perhaps dog puppies were not as easy to home as bitches) but these days it is rare for good Cocker breeders to charge more for bitches than dogs. There seem to be just as many enquiries for dogs as for bitch puppies nowadays and I can't think of any decent breeders who do still charge more for bitches (unless they are very "old-school" or more commercially minded)
By Stooge (***) [gb] Date 26.02.12 23:11 GMT
It could be, I have not had a litter for getting on ten years but I'm still not sure that I would jump to conclusions over modest price differences. 

To be honest, I have never felt it to be much anyone elses business what a breeder chooses to charge.  As far as I can see the only ethical issues are the reasons to breed and the care over vetting and placing of puppies. 

You cannot ever, practically, charge what a puppy costs to produce anyway as the huge variations involved could make them at various times impossibly expensive or recklessly cheap. 

The only practical approach is to generally match with other breeders but the finer points are surely up the individual I feel.  I don't even see anything wrong with being "commercially minded".  As long as the reasons for breeding are ethical and that is how they conduct themselves if they want to try to obtain a little more to make themselves and their dogs rather more comfortable, well good luck to them, the public are free to go elsewhere if it doesn't suit.
By marisa (**) [gb] Date 26.02.12 23:27 GMT
Just had a look at French Bulldogs on a well known site and one breeder has a 500 difference between a dog and a bitch.
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