Hi Bassman. Welcome to our little haven! I’ve started a new thread because it’s easier to find. What breed do you have? At 4 months old don’t be in too much of a rush. I never do any retrieving during the time they are changing their teeth because of the risk of hurting their mouth and putting them off. Book recommendation would be dependant on breed (my guess from your post is Springer?) What kind of ground is your shoot or are you not that far in yet? Give us a few details and we’ll see what we can do.

Regards, John

Hi John:
My name is Glenn (I play bass in a band hence the handle). You can email me direct on roadh@yahoo.com

Yes I do have a ESS. He just coming up to 5 months old. I am new to the Gun Dog world but really want to get involved and am concerned I'm going to encourge bad habits through my lack of knowledge. I have been told the best thing to do now is to take max on some beats (Kept on lead) so he can get used to the day and nosie, etc. but I do not know where to fond the info on shoots requiring beaters.

All I'm doing with Max at the moment is talking him for walks where he can free hunt and every so often I call him back on the whitsle which is usally. I have started today training walking on a zig zag pattern and to sit on whitsle command.

The area I talk him for a walk comprising two lakes and plenty of long grass and bush thickets. He will go in the water but does not have the confidence to swim although.

Any help will be greatly appreaciated

Glenn

Welcome Glenn.
I am not up on gundogs but it sounds as if you are making a good start. A couple of things to remember which relate to all dogs not just gundogs, he is still very much a baby so don't expect too much too soon and also don't ask him to do things you are not in a position to enforce (ie, don't ask him to sit if you can't put him in a sit straight away, and don't call him when he is interested in something else and won't obey you). By doing this you can ensure that he obeys on the first command and doesn't start to believe he only needs to sit if he is near enough to you for you to make him.

As he is a baby there will be days when you feel you are going backwards, or that you wasted all the previous week etc. This is totally normal, keep your patience and next time you work you will find he has come on again. End every training session on a good note even if everything has been going wrong before that, even if you just tell him to look at you and he does, you can go overboard praising him and ensure that he remembers that training is good fun.

I'm sure Leigh and John can give you much more specific gundog advice and help.

Enjoy your dog

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Thanks for the input:

I understand. My inital thought was to strat the proper trianing when he's a year old, but having spoken to so others then seem to start the basic from day 1.

From little acorns and all that......

The only thing that bothers me a present is this getting the dog all excited (making what I'm doing more interesting that what he's doing). I have having no luck in that department he just looks at me as if I'm daft, which I am of course!!!!!

I can usally get him back on a whistle, only if he's really engorssed with some other dog(s) do I ahve a problem, but that is not very often these days. I have started started to use whistle to get him to sit, but only when I can make sure he will sit.

Finally I am using diagonal walking patterns with arms raised left and right when changing directions so he becomes used to what is meant when I used my arms for directional control, that is hard work but it will be worth the hard work.

Glenn

Welcome to the forum Glenn.

I am happy to offer you ANY advice that I can, but my greatest experience is with HPR breeds.
Firstly, I would say "slow down" He is a puppy and everything that you do with him must be fun. It is always tempting to "rush" things with a new puppy. Remember.... what you put in now, will pay dividends later on. If you cut corners now, you will be trying to rectify the problems at a later date, so take your time. It is vital that you get the basic commands in. Work on your Sit/Stop whistle and your Recall. I can not stress enough how vital these commands are to a working gundog.When you are actually "hunting" your dog, keep the whistle work to the bare minimum. Use it just enough so that you have control, but not so much that you distract him from his cause.
The idea of training is to develop the dogs natural abilities and channel them into your requirements.There are some very good books on the market for training spaniels and I personally would recommend ANYthing by Martin Deeley. I would also say, try and find a local gundog training class. Not only will this help you with your training but will also give you contacts for local shoots etc.You could also buy magazines such as The Shooting Times and The Shooting Gazette to look for "Beater wanted" add's. But be warned, it tends to be by word of mouth in most cases, so Club contacts are more likely to bring results.

Leigh

I quite agree. The advice I had all along is wait until he's a year before training which is what I'm doing. However I have also been told to get the basics in place which is what I'm trying to do.

Therefore I use a whitle for recall which is very sucessfull and have just started to use it for sit. The only ohter bit I have just started doing is diagonal walking using arms to point direction changes.

max has so such fun on the free walks and love to smell out rabbits, etc.

Sounds good to me Glenn I am certain that you are going to have a lot of fun with him. Let us know how you get on. Leigh

Joan and Leigh have covered most points. Just to add to it, another book I like is Joe Irving's Gundogs, Their Learning Chain. (Available over the net from Amazon.com) What you train your dog very much depends on what you want from it. With beating it often appears more important to "Hold the line" than to hunt up in a normal manner. The individual is only part of the whole so to speak. To work competitively you need to be able to effective hunt up an area. As there is no point in flushing a bird which is out of range of the gun the dog would normally be within 30 to 40 yards of you. To retrieve on a shoot you need a dog which will range out a greater distance than is normal for a hunting spaniel, the bird may well fall 150 yards or further away. Decisions, decisions! Life’s tough!! I was out training yesterday with a friend with an 18-month Springer and he has not trained turns at all yet. His thoughts are that it will stop his bitch from ranging out for the long retrieve which is usual on his shoot. But that is really horses for courses.

As far as taking him out this season is concerned, I would give it a miss. A CONTROLED introduction to gunfire is far more important at this stage and a 12 gauge over his head could make him gun nervous for life. My Anna, (Labrador) heard her first gun at 12 weeks old, Anna sat in a field and the gun in the next field over! Gradually over a period of time the gun was brought closer until it is finally, months later, directly overhead.

The old hands will tell you, beating ruins a picking up dog by losing the steadiness and picking up ruins the Field Trials dog by making it too hot! You CAN do all but you need to be aware of the pitfalls.

I can't help you much over clubs as you are well out of my area and most of my contacts are retrievers rather than spaniels but if I were you I would ring the secretary of the North Midland area of the United Retriever Club. As a Spaniel owner you obviously cannot join but if you explain your position then gundog people tend to know what is going on in their area and he may well know of someone who can point you in the direction of a Spaniel training club. The Secretary in your area is Mr P Wagland; phone no. 01909-476024 It may need a little detective work on your part but should yield results.

Any more help or information you need, just post and we’ll do our best.

Regards, John

Thanks for the info and advice:
From what I can see everyone has there own opinion and methods that work for them. The idea of taking on shoot this season was to start some way of and gradually over the weeks bring him closer so it no big shock for him, as suggested by one gun dog trainer. On the advice of another Gun dog man I have ordered another book by Joe Irving, that is specific to Spaniel Training.

As I am new to this game I just do not know how I inetend to work him yet

Glenn

Sorry Glenn, I have missed where in the country you are based..if you can let me know I will sort out some ESS training group phone numbers for you.

The J.Irving Spaniel (learning chain) book can be very useful, but I think you will get a lot of value from joining an ESS training group. I would advise though that you just visit a few in your area, - some trainers can be heavy handed, so find one YOU feel comfortable with, before taking the pup along.

HTH
Debs

Hi Debs:
Thanks for mail.

I'm based in North Yorkshire (Scarborough)

Glenn

Hi,

Hopefully one of these may be able to suggest a suitable training club for you - sorry if I am doubling up on something someone else has suggested.

ESS club
(do span tests)
FT sec is MR R Proctor
Phone stoke 01782 720543

Lincs. Gundog club
Mark Clifford FT Sec from the midland ESS
club (lives in Lincoln) phone 01476 870842

Yorkshire Sporting Spaniel Club
Mr D Anderson 01535 631115

Yorks Gundog Club
Ft sec Mrs J M Johnson 01485 543295

hope this helps
good luck!
Debs