Hello

My Shih Tzu has just about stopped feeding her 2 bitch puppies who are 3 weeks old tomorrow.

She's not been a brilliant Mum since they were born but she's really had enough now - she's even tried to starve herself to make her milk dry up without success (so now shes back eating everything again) but now she goes in the whelping box and shakes when they come near her...

I know it's a bit early but she's not coping well so I think it would be kinder to wean them. She had an easy pregnancy and birth and the pups weighed a healthy 9 1/2 oz and 10 oz - trebling their weight at 2 weeks and still putting on at least 2 oz a day...

Can anyone offer advice - I've managed to get some Lactol (its all i could get) which they arent keen on and I'll try some Goats milk tomorrow when Tesco opens... later in the week I'll try some farex mixed in... can someone tell me if I'm doing the right thing here or have any advice to give whatsoever...

thanks

Hi Emily,

I had a weeny girl from my last litter I started weaning at 2 weeks old onto a small meal twice a day of Pedigree Weaning Porridge, plus mum. You would have to use the Breeder Service for this I think. A friend had to hand rear a Cocker litter and she found that Pedigrees Puppy Milk was terrific. I'm sure somebody on this board can do a link.

I think if your bitch won't fed the pups it's cruel to force her in there with them, make sure that their nails don't need trimmed though as this will put her off feeding them.

Don't get goats milk, it is meant for baby goats! Welpi (can be obtained from vet) is better than Lactol. I'm sure someone more qualified than me will reply to help you.

We usually start solwly weaning our pups at 3 weeks old. We wean them on sloppy rice pudding and sloppy scrambled egg with cheese in that order. We then introduce minced beef (lightly boiled). A good tinned puppy food for weaning the more awkward feeder is Winalot Friskies puppy food - seems much better in consistancy than Pedigree Chum.
We have found when the pups are learning to lap they cope better if it is a thicker mixture hence sloppy rice pudding - tinned rice pudding with lactol.

first get them lapping Lactol on its own, then get Beta puppy (or whatever brand of complete puppy food you intend to use), put through the blender to make it a powder, then soak in Lactol until its a porridgey consistency. Put it down and encnourage the pups to lick it off your fingers. After 5 meals a day like this, in 2-3 days they will be rushing in & eating it on their own.

At three weeks you can also wean them on to raw minced beef and it might be best to use just a couple of new foods - ie milk and beef, to let their stomachs get used to new things for at least a week rather than introduce a lot of different feeds. Then gradually drop the milk and exchange it for which ever puppy food you were intending to wean them onto.

Does the mum shake at any other time or just when she is with them - if all the time get her seen by a vet asap.

You will probably get as many different opinions as you get posters on this thread

Christine
Edit: When I say minced I do mean very fine, almost like a paste and not lumpy especially for such small dogs

My teeny girl choked on raw minced beef and "died" for several seconds, so I'll never use it again!!!!!!

For very young pups like this, it's safer to scrape the beef - get a piece of steak (you won't need a lot!!) and scrape the flat side with the blade of a knife, so that the meat is "pulped" rather than minced or cut. This way there's no risk of them choking on a bit that, although small, is too big for their throats. After the first attempt, they usually fall onto it like ravening wolves!

Hi There,

I weaned a littler of Pekingese at 3 weeks (1 was hand reared from day1) - I used Walshams milk (from vet) and a syringe then gradually got them used to laping I then soaked Eukanuba small breed puppy biscuits soaked and mashed until very soft, by 4 weeks they were all eating and drinking brilliantly.

E-mail me if you need any more help.

Regards
Donna

I have started puppies as young as 10 days, when pups have seemed hungry on Mum.

I soak a couple of pioeces of a dry puppy food in hot boiled water (but not boiling as it kills the vitamins) and add to this the puppy milk,makeing porridge. I have also found neat puppy milk wasn't liked, and they tended to splutter in it.

I gradully increase the amount and the consistency gets drier as the pups get older.

With that very good weight gain they are probably getting all they need from Mum, but if she is getting distressed weaning may help.

Try to feed them just before Mum goes to feed them, remove Mum, and then try the hungry pups on about a tablespoon of food each. Once you have got them to eat some, you will need to clean them up, as the dried food on their faces andd paws dries like concrete!

Allow Mum to finish off feeding them. If they aren't very hungry they will be less frighteningly clamourous for her milk, and also with them probably not taking a full feed her milk will lessen gradually.

It could just be that they are very hungry when she eventually feeds them, which she finds unpleasant, therefore only goes to them when she must, and so they are hungry when she does feed them, and pull her about.

Most people will start to wean at this age, and the bitch may find her maternal duties less onerous once you are helping.

You may be surprised an find that she continues with comfort feeds for a few weeks yet once they are eating well and not pestering her.

Hi Emily , the first signs of eclampsia was when my bitch started shaking. It was very slight & I only noticed it because I had a dog with epilepsy & she would shake a little before fitting. If she is shaking I would have a word with your vet asap.
Christines (Kerioak) advice is the one that was advice very similar that was suggested to me when my pups were only 10 dys old & pups mum had eclampsia & they done very well on it.
Christine, Spain.
Edited just to say pups went on puppy milk first but got dire rears so had no choice but to put them on solids ie: ground beef/chicken, youghurt weetabix, baby rice, scrambled eggs etc.

Hi All

THanks for all your help and advice...

Mum only shakes when I make her lay down to feed the pups - although in the past 3 weeks she has laid with them to let her feed, I've often had to go in and hold her down whilst stroking her - dont worry i dont mean by force - just alot of encouragement... but its only today that shes started getting so upset... everytime they do manage to latch on she runs off dragging them behind her so I really dont think it's fair to ask her to feed them anymore... as you can tell it's her first litter - she's 2 but still my little baby really -

In fact she gave birth on my bed - refused to go anywhere else and i didnt want to upset her too much so i didnt really mind - just lots and lots of towels!!

The gold and white pup is lapping quite well - I've thrown the puppy bottle - they dont like it and the solid gold one is slowly starting to lap so I'm not going to panic... I'll continue to weigh them and see how they progress - maybe mum is sneakily feeding them when noone is around...

I've brought the puppies up in my bed whilst me and hubby watch a video - mum is cleaning them

Thanks for all your help... these puppies are precious - the vet told me 2 weeks before she was due that it was a phantom so I'm thrilled we got 2 little girls in the first place...

I'll keep u up to date with what i'm doing and how they are getting on as i'm sure I'll have many more questions/concerns to come...

thanks

emily

Emily

Hope all the pups are fine and mom too,

I know this is a dumb question but when you weigh the pups do you weigh them on digital scales that you would weigh your self on?????????

Sorry I apologise in advance for my thickness

Heidi

HI Heidi

No - I weigh them in kitchen scales as they are more accurate... at the moment they are 36 and 39oz - I doubt I would get that accuracy on the bigger scales...

why what do u use?

emma

I start mine on baby rice flakes from the chemist mixed with puppy milk as there is nothing to be allergic too and its very gentle for the first few meals. After a day or two they have their first worming (I worm the bitch too at this point and again 3 weeks later at the pups next worming) and then I start to mix very well soaked complete puppy biscuit to the rice and mash well so its quite sloppy. After another couple of days I stop the rice and give Pedigree Chum Puppy Food ( in a cardboard pack of three tins from most supermarkets) half and half with soaked complete biscuit. Once they are about 5 weeks I introduce sardines and scrambled egg once or twice a week. I always have a tin of rice pudding handy in case I wake up to hungry puppies and have forgotten to soak the biscuit overnight! Rice pudding and sardines!! Ugh, but they like it! I also give evaporated milk, diluted as per instructions once they puppy milk runs out. I used to scrape beef and spend hours preparing special meals but found that that sort of diet was difficult for new owners to continue and puppies didn't eat well in their new homes. It suits me to rear pups this way, its fairly economical, easy to buy and the pups do very well in their new homes on an easy to prepare diet. My prefered puppy biscuits are Febo or Arden Grange.

Hi Emily

What state are your bitch's teats in - if they are at all hot, red or lumpy anywhere she may have mastitis and require anti-biotics (plus warm-cool wet towel treatment and massage - but if she is showing any signs get your vet's advice on this)

Christine

Hi Christine

Her teats are fine - no mastitis whatsoever - part of the reason I was making her feed them was because they were filling up and I was worried she would get mastitis, but they are hardly filling up at all now... to be honest everything has been fairly non eventful with the 3 of them, all happy and healthy but Mum's had enough now... In fact everyone keeps saying - are you going to keep them? And as much as I love them and think they are adorable, people just can't understand that Mum quite often has had enough and wants some peace after all the hard work she's done and wants to be centre of attention again.

Em

Emily

Hi thanks for the reply, no I dont breed I was just curious thats all, I always wonderd what people used to weigh the pups in

Heidi

Emily, forgive me if I'm stating the obvious but are the pups nails nice and short? Long nails can make the bitch reluctant to feed.

Hello

Yes I trimmed the nails 4 days ago - they are fine...

I know you people have to state the obvious;-) because there seem to be alot of people breeding for the sake of puppies without doing their homework etc.... My parents used to breed Yorkies and My partners parents bred Borzois and were international judges, I just hate going to them for advice coz all they say is - dont worry they'll be fine....

Anyway mum fed pups tonight for the first time today - i was sat in the litter box and she jumped in and laid down with her head on my lap... I've fed them all day today so shes had a nice rest and lots of left over baby rice and milk One of the pups is feeding really well - the other one just wants mum but still they've put on another 2 oz each today...

I'm just glad theres only 2 to look after and not a full litter or else I'd be as exhausted as mum!!