Can anyone help, I missed out on buying a stud dog earlier this week and wondered if anyone out there knows of any for sale. I have three bitches and have been breeding for 7 years now, and feel the time is right to have my own boy, although, preferrably an older one who 'knows the ropes' who will help me more than trying to train a younger boy. Please email me venexia@aol.com
many thanks for any help

<<<train a younger boy>>>> Are you talking about training in general behavour or making babies???

HI

just the making babies training, i can handle the rest ok.

You don't need to train a dog for mating they will do it on there own!!  Had a14 weeks old puppy at ringcraft last night who in the afternoon watched a mating, he then tried it on with a little bitch (who wasn't in season)

They will do it, its nature!  You don't need to train.

Unless you want a proven dog.

Rox

As you are an experienced breeder your will be able to answer my question, will one dog be suitable as a stud for all your bitches, and if so you should say what lines your require and those you do not.

Why not keep one of your own pups?

Is this dog to be used on your own girls? Surely you'd be hard-pressed to find one whose bloodlines and good/bad points complement all your bitches? And then you probably wouldn't use him more than once on each ... cheaper to use someone else's I'd have thought.

yes, he would be used on my girls, we have treganhawke, holway, bolberry and moorquest in one.
daughter to one obviously has above plus bridgefarm, stanroph, rainscourt, rosacea, rossbourne.
third girl has artemesia, lindjan, stanroph, paudell, ritzilyn, nortonwood and so it goes on.
i do like moorquest and ritzilyn particularly, the holway is more working than show but nice types and temps.
i would use him outside to approved bitches, and would still use outside studs as and when i felt necessary.
i just thought i could pick some brains frmo other breeders out there!

Your girls don't appear to come from distinct lines - in fact the third one seems to be entirely unrelated to the others, so it is unlikely (I'd have thought) that the same dog would suit them all.

the third girl is a different breeding altogether, whic is why i bought her, to bring different type and lines into my kennel. other two are mum and daughter. obviously i would do trial matings prior to any matings to see outcome, inbreeding etc etc, but would like to have a boy, on which ones i use him on will be thought about carefully prior to use, of course, but we all need to start somewhere don't we, it seems that some people are too quick to judge other peoples reasons on this board which is such a shame, im just asking for a bit of assistance.

<<some people are too quick to judge other peoples reasons on this board>>

Not sure what you mean by that, but as you are an experienced breeder you will understand why people would look askance at continual outcrossing, which, judging by your posts, is what you seem to be doing. Forgive me if I'm wrong - I've probably misunderstood.

sorry, im probably a bit apprehensive of what people think having read some threads which were quite nasty (by others - not yourselves.)
i would like a good dog from which i could line breed my girls, although i know i couldn't use him on any daughters that were kept, its just an idea that im researching at the moment, maybe you're right and i should use other dogs
its so confusing

Because you said you had been breeding for 7 years we have assumed you knew what you were doing with regards to sorting suitable studs for your bitches. And you may find a stud that would be suitable for one or if you are lucky two of your bitches any more would be most unlikely. Why not buy in a puppy or breed your own dog because to find a suitable experienced dog of good background that would suit is really looking for the jackpot, any really good stud will not be for sale only those who are old or proved unsuitable.

As you no doubt know Amber, you have both working lines and show lines in your Goldens. Which side are you hoping to breed? I cannot imagine that a dog which would for example, compliment the Holway line would still compliment the Bridgefarm line. Two totally different dogs!

Leaving aside the working and show lines in your bitches, because of the very varied lines you have I could not see any one dog being a suitable stud for all of them. My recomendation would be to forget the idea. You are then free to pick the very best stud dog available which compliments the particular bitch you are intending to mate at any one time. To buy your own stud dog will only really allow you to breed a very limited number of times anyway so you will be forced to go outside after a very few litters anyway.

Regards, John

It depends on what you need to improve in your girls, you need to look for a stud who may be able to improve on their faults. You are indeed fortunate if one dog is able to suit all the bitches you now own. But should there be anyone with a dog for sale they will need to know more detail of what you are looking for. This is a matter better done through the breed club as there will be a limited number for people on this forum for you to find a perfect  match for a number of bitches.

As JG says, it is more economical to use an outside stud, if you use your own stud once and it does not produce the result you need you will have a dog in your kennel who is doing nothing but eating.

Hi Amber

Must admit you worry me if I have read your posts correctly

In September 02 you posted regarding what I assume was what sounded like your first litter and at that time had a two and a half year old bitch (Amber) and a 4 month old bitch (India) and were talking of keeping another one from Amber's first litter.

In May 03 you posted about having another litter - was this a consecutive breeding with Amber or a young breeding with India or a different bitch?

Now you talking about getting a male to start your "line".  I feel it is better to do something with the bitches you have, show and/or sport to get your kennel name (if you have an affix) recognised and breed your bitches to the best suited dogs available for them individually.  If, over generations you keep your two breeding lines separate, ultimately you may breed a dog that is good enough to put to the other "line" and any descendants you have of your original bitches. 

Successful breeding and the creation of a "line" requires planning and foresightedness - it is not something achieved with lots of puppies and in a couple of generations.

When I started in Flatcoats, after years in labradors, I chose my first foundation bitch very carefully, having talked with numerous folk in the breed, and identified the type I liked.

My foundation bitch had two litters, one to a predominantly working bred dog who also showed well; one to a predominantly show bred dog who worked well.   Both dogs nicked in well with her own pedigree.

This gave me the basis of two lines which have now diverged to an extent that after 4 generations I can use my own dogs in a kind of cross-breeding pattern, and know I'm keeping type.   Thinking about it, I did actually merge them after 3 generations with one mating I did.

If I need an outcross, I try to get it through a pup sired by one of our dogs, as I know them through and through, and I know there are no 'skeletons in the cupboard'

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hope this pattern may help you with your breeding plans