Hi, looking for Patterdale Terrier breeders in the North West, preferable Greater Manchester/Cheshire.

Thanks

Ben

have you tried looking in the Country mans weekly

Nah Kate, that is for "working" Terriers!
Dawn.

THEY ARENT BORN TO WORK!!!! They are all born the same correct training determines there future more than their breed!

They have been bred to have a strong working instinct, not for their looks. They won't have ancestors who weren't 'sharp' - they would have been disposed of and never allowed to breed.

JG, spot on!

Horse, I am somewhat confused as to your statement.  You may have been working your Patterdale for some time, but based on my experience of working Terriers above and below ground for the last 17yrs, I find your attitude to the breed you own quite strange.
You are the first person I know that owns a working Terrier (Patt) that seems NOT to have the breeds history and welfare at heart.

Your statement "They are all born the same correct training determines there future more than their breed! "  would seem to imply, that any dog can do any job, given the correct "training" something which most Terriers do not require, they work on instinct, basic obedience is all they need, when a Terrier has gone to ground how on earth would you be able to tell it what to do?  Horses for courses as they say.
Dawn.

Hi I have a patterdale who is a pet I also have two Jack rusells really we are refering to all breeds of terrier arent we as there is little difference between so called "working terriers" The jacks are more active than the patterdale, he just likes to flop most of the time, Ive known a few terriers over the years and they are all different I suppose because they aren't really a specific 'breed' they vary a bit in attitude, to me a Patterdale is no different to any other little dog or terrier they are all so different and although they do have instincts as any other animal I think they are just fine as pets all dogs need stimulation not just Patterdales? Although mine do not work they are regularly exercised and have free run at some point during the day over the land. Do you think that I dont deserve to own terriers because I dont work them? I offer the best care and exercise that I can and I love my dogs dearly.

They have been bred to have a strong working instinct, not for their looks. They won't have ancestors who weren't 'sharp' - they would have been disposed of and never allowed to breed.

My boy loves to just flop he would rather be curled up on my knee than down a hole, he gets plenty of execise and care and is very content if only your statement were true about the quieter dogs being disposed of, somewhere along the line there would have been quite ones and even if they were disposed of then surely that trate would still come through now if it ever exsited it will be in the blood, is that what you do with yours? Dispose of them if they arent sharp enough for you? How awful would it be as kind to offer them a pet home, if they arent sharp?

That's why I don't keep terriers!

So do you know that that statement is correct then?

Yes - because I have friends who have terriers. They breed them for their original purpose - to keep down vermin. They also stick as closely as possible to the standard.

Nah Kate, that is for "working" Terriers!
Dawn.
What is the difference between a working terrier and a non working terrier.

Some terreir breeds have been bred away from their working roots and changed into a less workmanlike dog by size and coat.

Most will still be very Terrier in temperament and not suit someone who does not like that sort of dog, but woudl not be any use for work.

Self explanatory, a Terrier that works is just that, not a fireside pet for most of its time.

The Patterdale is not a KC recognised breed that has been manipulated and altered to satisfy a "trend" or fashion for the show ring.  My breed, the Border Terrier is lucky enough also to have breeders that care as much about the correct working terrier temperament, rather than breeding from non correct tempered dogs making them into soppy pets.
Dawn.

have you tried looking in the Country mans weekly
Nah Kate, that is for "working" Terriers!
Dawn.
Self explanatory, a Terrier that works is just that, not a fireside pet for most of its time.
I thought that the countrymans weekly had pups advertised? Surely they wouldn't be working so young? Do you think that I dont deserve to own a terrier because I dont put it to work?

My breed, the Border Terrier is lucky enough also to have breeders that care as much about the correct working terrier temperament, rather than breeding from non correct tempered dogs making them into soppy pets.
Dawn.  Soppy? Are all dogs soppy just because they are pets? The border is recognised by the KC is it not? So its ok for some terriers to be KC recognised but not others, What does non correct tempered mean? I never said anything about correct working temprement being a bad thing ours are a dap hand at catching rats but its their choice while they are outside in the yard it doesn't mean that they have to live as non pet dogs? Did you not say that Patterdales were working dogs? Yet now you mention a soppy pet strain? I am very confused as to your theories they dont appear consistant?

I think you are missing the point.  Patterdales are a type of terrier bred by working terrier men to work, they are selected for their working abilities, and would not have the traits most suited to making them a pet for most people. 

They are really only suitable for those who like and understand working terriers. 

Your average Pet owner would find them too much hard work and possibly end up with frustrated and neurotic dogs due to their mental needs not being satisfied. 

I have seen many Pet WHWT and Jack Russells like that, and with weak owners who think of them and treat them like lap dogs, they are often badly behaved and aggressive.

Your average Pet owner would find them too much hard work and possibly end up with frustrated and neurotic dogs due to their mental needs not being satisfied. 

Mine are just fine, We live on a 14 acre farm, Dawn was saying that patterdales are all working dogs and should stay that way but mine is a pet and I just wanted to say that he is fine as a pet we rescued him from some gypsies and he has a few scares round his neck I think he has been attacked by a large dog or human!! which makes him very very submisive we are trying to stop him rolling over on his back everytime we say his name he just wants to please and be with us all the time, what ever has happened to him in the past has made him more of a pet type dog than a working dog, thats not to say that he doesnt have the instincts he is just a slight worrier. Thats all. It seems that the phrase "pet" is used too freely to me a pet is a dog that lives in the house and spends time with us as a family, not one that lives cooped up in a house and never allowed a walk or a run.

Your dog lives on a farm and not in the average home in an urban house, so has the facility to satisfy his instincts.  You said yurself he is a dab hadn at his original purpose of vermin control.  You are not a typical Pet owner.

I think your right in we need another description, as I would hope that all dogs are companions as well as fulfilling any particular job of work they do.

Personally I much prefer the word Companion.  For me the word pet is the keeping of some caged captive species, which is in fact the life many dogs lead, and many breeds are unsuited to such a limited existence.

Personally I much prefer the word Companion.

Its like poetry!!

Are all dogs soppy just because they are pets? The border is recognised by the KC is it not? So its ok for some terriers to be KC recognised but not others, What does non correct tempered mean? I never said anything about correct working temprement being a bad thing ours are a dap hand at catching rats but its their choice while they are outside in the yard it doesn't mean that they have to live as non pet dogs? Did you not say that Patterdales were working dogs? Yet now you mention a soppy pet strain? I am very confused as to your theories they dont appear consistant?

Where has "Horse" gone??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

What on earth are you going on about?  Who is saying it is or isnt ok to be registered?  I pointed out that the Patterdale is not a registered breed and because of that is largely produced ONLY to do the job it was bred for!  this will make it for the most part an unsuitable pet.  Having the correct temperament is paramount in any breed, not least a working one.   Nobody said they cant live as a pet aswell, but that the correct tempered Patterdale is not a lap dog! 
Dawn.

who is horse?

The Patterdale is not a KC recognised breed that has been manipulated and altered to satisfy a "trend" or fashion for the show ring.

?? Not your words??

YES!!!!  Meaning they have NOT been changed for the look of the dog, they have retained all their working abilities, my whole point!
Dawn.

Patterdales are working Terriers.
Dawn.

Nobody said they cant live as a pet aswell,

I think Brainless has highlighted my points very well (thanks)  if you do live on a farm and your dog does go off vermin hunting, then no he isnt your average, lie by the fire, one half hour walk round the block type pet is he?  I am passionate about working Terriers and would hate for one such as the Patterdale to be ruined and breed for looks alone, resulting in their working instincts rendering them unsuitable pets and ending up in rescue as many are now doing.
Dawn.

I think Brainless has highlighted my points very well (thanks)  if you do live on a farm and your dog does go off vermin hunting, then no he isnt your average, lie by the fire, one half hour walk round the block type pet is he?  I am passionate about working Terriers and would hate for one such as the Patterdale to be ruined and breed for looks alone, resulting in their working instincts rendering them unsuitable pets and ending up in rescue as many are now doing.
Dawn.

Oh absolutly I would never recomend that a novice have a terrier or someone that just wants a lap dog because I know that they need plenty of activity one of my JRT's needs plenty of things to do sometimes she just looks at me as if to say "GIVE ME A TASK!" she would not cope in a slow inactive environment where someone isnt prepared to meet her needs. I just thought that the word pet was being used a bit freely because ours do live in the home as pets we love them to do the job they were bred for but we choose to let them get on with it around our farm and not take them out working as such, I think brainless's idea of the word companion was great thats just it they are our companions not just our work collegues!! I know what you say about breeding for looks, look at the red setter for example started out as a useful working dog but has now been so in bred to be as red as possible that most are just silly loonies (that Ive met!) and aren't much use for workers anymore just bought for their looks. I have to say thats humans for you we interfear with all aspects of nature to suit ourselves!

Does that mean we agree?? :D
Dawn

I think we agree that any terrier shouldnt be entered into lightly, an active outdoor companion home is ok provided that owners have the knowledge to care for one, I think we both agree that these arent town house 9-5 dogs!!

Yep, I'll agree to that!
Dawn.

Oh no Dawn now someone else is having a go about terriers just when I thought we had reached an understanding, someone else disagree's:rolleyes::rolleyes: sigh!!

I really dont understand why you assume that all terriers are the same. Nobody should enter lightly into getting any dog, but that aside, many of the terrier breeds make excellent pets - they dont all need to live on a farm and go ratting! And this includes terrier breeds that have not been "manipulated" for the show ring.

No Fillis I know not all dogs are the same neither are people, its just a general rule that terriers need plenty to do thats all!!!!:rolleyes:

But most dogs need "plenty to do". There are many terrier breeds who can and do live happily in towns as long as, again like any dog, they get mental and physical stimulation.  After all, not all border collies need to live with someone who owns sheep and most of those still have strong working instincts

Border collies in my experience do need working homes no not particularly with sheep:rolleyes: but the need to work agility or anything, there are breeds of dog that need more to do than others you cant generalise in one instant and not in another you say not all terriers are the same so please dont say all dogs are the same. Of course a terrier can live in the town if a human makes that choice when did I say that a terrier could not live in the town? no it doesnt have to live on a farm or go ratting but Im sure if a dog had a choice especially dogs such as terriers they would prefer to be out all day ours do because they do have the choice!! The door is always open and they are always out!!!!

P.s mine dont go ratting nor any other work they do what they wish around the farm its their choice and they live as pets, just so you are clear that I know they make good companions!!

"These arent town house 9 - 5 dogs"
My door, too is open most of the day, but my dogs spend most of their time wherever I am - their choice, by the way.

The Patterdale Terrier is an unspoilt WORKING Terrier breed, I will admit a small number may lack the necessary game temperament to do a decent days work, but for the most part they make unsuitable pets!  They need masses of physical and mental stimulation.  If you want to talk of Collies, well nowadays most of them ARE bred in pet homes, whilst they may retain some breed characteristics, they are a far cry from the original working sheepdog, however they are an active breed that needs much to do, they are amomg the top dogs I board that can develop behaviour problems when in boarding kennels for a long time.
Dawn.

Dawn, I agree completely about Patterdales (and some other terriers), but the statement was made about terriers as a whole, and some of the terrier breeds do not fall into that generalisation. And as a group as a whole, I would say that terriers have had appearances manipulated far less than others for the show ring. Some of the terrier breeds make excellent pets and it is a pity that potential owners are put off by the thinking that all terriers are "sharp" and likely to need acres of countryside to lead a happy life.

Yes thats true enough Fillis, but you will find that the majority of Terrier breeds are suited as pets because they have been so far removed from their origins, in order to fulfill the desired "look" for the show ring, or blatent disregard for conformation and temperament by mass producing to supply the pet market. Most Westies, Cairns, Norwich, Norfolk, Fox Terriers etc.. couldnt do a days work if their life depended on it.  My Borders live in the house, sleep on my bed, go to shows, 2 are registered PAT dogs, yet they are still able mentally and physically to go out and do a days work, this is even more so for the Patterdale.
Dawn.

"These arent town house 9 - 5 dogs"
My door, too is open most of the day, but my dogs spend most of their time wherever I am - their choice, by the way

So whats the problem then?

No problem, but because yours choose to be out all the time, it doesnt mean they all do

No problem, but because yours choose to be out all the time, it doesnt mean they all do
Mine choose to go out because they have loads of land to keep busy on Im sure if they had only a garden they would get bored and probably not go out! Im quite bored of all this now, my initial argument was that terriers can be pets not just working dogs provided that they get all of their needs cated for and now you are attacking me for the same argument, Dawn thought that Patterdales are working dogs and should stay that way, I wanted to say that I have one that doesnt work and is quite happy thats all.

Mine have plenty too, thank you. We have more than just a garden - they have in total just under 4 acres. My whole point is that you made assumptions that all terriers are like yours, which they are not. I feel it is wrong to assume that people who are not lucky enough to live in the country would not be able to give any terriers a happy life. Pretty much the way you assumed I lived in the town with an average garden therefore my dogs were bored.

When did I assume that you lived in the town I actually did suspect that you didnt!!! And at which point did I say that every terrier is like mine or that people who live in towns shouldnt have them? Im affraid that there is no black and white answer with any animal your argument seems too straight forward, there are many considerations to owning any dog and that was my argument on here to start with, that any knowledgable person can own a terrier, when I say knowledgeable I mean meet its needs, My point was aimed at Patterdales and Jack Russells really because they seem to remain more on the working side currently, I should have stated that really, I dont think of all dogs in the terrier group as terriers really, most have been bred for looks now so my meaning was slightly wrong any dog with strong working roots I should have said. You seem to also miss the point about dogs living in the town I meant that some dont cope with being cooped up for 10 hours a day, and thats why our shelters are ramed full because people mis understand behaviour, and probably pick the wrong dog for their environment. We all have animal welfare as number one priority otherwise we wouldnt be on this site so what ever I say or do is done with best interests at heart, sorry if you take offense to this but I will continue to do my best for animals.

Sadly many of the general public when they see the size of some of the smaller terriers say oh great, small easy dog just the right size for the kids.

My next door neighbours have owned Jack russell type terriers (though I am sure their oldest when I moved here was a Bedlington Cross as it was blue and had a fluffy topknot) for 30 plus years.

They are convinced that all they need is the garden to run about in (we are talking a suburban garden about 70 feet x 25 feet).  Most of this is flowerbeds and greenhouses and shed.  Because the latest additons as pups dug the garden they were confined to the patio by a fence and can trot around the rest of the garden supervised.

They wanted the latest ones to be much better with people so my daughter and I took them to training classes, but the owners didn't keep up the socialisation, and they go balisitc when they see other dogs, and are a pain to walk, so rarely leave the property. 

The man of the house does take them to the Country park on lead every now and then, and they take them on the Caravan Campsite with them where they stay in the awning in a crate and go for lead walks. 

The owners would be mortally offended if anyone suggested the dogs lives were limited.

Oh they aren't allowed in the house other than in the Utility room at night or in a dog bed in the lounge, as they will leave hairs.

Across the road lives a Choc Labrador that was taken out by the kids when small, and now spend all it's time barking at the garden gate, it seems never to be taken for walks anymore and the owner is pregnant again.

Me and my freind with two dobes meet every day to go for long road walks (with her toddler in pushchair), and walk the dogs individually, and are convined of the dogs living near us less then half get regular walks.

Many people consider an hours walk a lot of excersise, whereas I would consider it a minimum for any size dog.

The Terrier- Dogs originally bred and used for hunting vermin. Terrier comes from the word terra meaning earth. This hardy collection of dogs were selectively bred to be extremely brave and tough and to pursue fox, badger,rat and otter to name but a few. Originally these game canines were bred to best fit the purpose of which they were used and looks didnt really matter. Nowadays however because of breeders over the decades, the terriers have become more attractive whilst still retaining jovial and some times fiery temperaments!!

i think that terriers can be kept as pets or used as a working dog as they say just give the terrier plenty of exercise i also think that patterdales are alot stronger then jack russels as they are used on black fell mountins all day in tough weather. I have a bronze couloured patterdale 5 months old and is more a pet than hunter but i will be hopefully getting him hunting soon.