Ok let's moan about the parking, weather and the very apparent lack of seating. After travelling for four hours to arrive to say the least we were disappointed in whole environment and lack of good atmosphere. However my most poignant point would have to be that of the lack of 'fair' judging.

the order of the day seemed to be along the line of 'the dogs not winning but the faces behind the dogs', some people would call it nepitism others would call it cheating. So to summarise: Mr Joe Bloggs be careful in going to this type of show if your face is unknown it will only leave a big whole in your pocket where your wallet should be!

Teagan

I don't know what breed you are in, but in my breed both the CC winners were firsts for both dogs and handlers (in fact the bitch won the Special Beginners Stakes), though both owners have been around a little while, and both dogs have been getting good placings last year.

I made up my first champion last year after 10 years in the breed, is that waiting for my face to fit? No until then i didn't have a worthy enough dog, though right from the start I picked up the odd class win here and there.

I took a total newcomer with a puppy of my breed under my wing last year. I did not breed this bitch. I enroled him at ringcraft, and it took weeks for him to get the hang of moving her right. He went to his first Open show, where she was handicapped by his lack of handling skill not showing her movement off to best advantage (had her pacing whole time) and yes he was beaten by a face whose dog moved better but wasn't quite as good as his.

His third show was the breed club Championship show where he had entered 5 classes on my advice, he went into puppy, and lo and behold he had his act together, he won 4 out of the five classes (I beat him in the other) and only lack of experience and nerves cost him Best Puppy to the male who has since become a Champion at a precociously young age.

At this same show my Junior bitch won all five classes entered, her (and my) first CC and Reserve Best in show. I beat the mother of the judges dog into for the CC, even though she is a super champion.

Since then I have found that if my exhibit is thought the best by the Judge then I have won.

Maybe some weak judges will put up the more confidently handled exhibit owned by a name over an equally good novice owned and handled one.

If your dog is good enough it will win! The names all started somewhere.

A puppy I sold to a couple as a pet, entered it at our clUb Open show and they were last in all his classes. At their very next Open show some months later they went through to RBIS!! Having been under 3 different judges.

He has been BOB at another show, and last of 3 at another. All depends on what other dogs are there, and if the judge prefers their points over yours.

You need a season of showing, you will then find that your exhibit has a level. My champion bitch was placed between 1st and 4th in her classes (though she won all but two of them), does that mean the judges who placed her fourth were dishonest?

Her mother has won a class this year, but has mostly placed 2nd to fifth, that is her level. There are other exhibits that are usually bottom of the class, still the best dog on the sofa at home!

Thank you for your structured comments. Perhaps i was more surprised by the amount of judges and ch.judges exhibiting dogs in our ring on behalf of the owners who stood in the sidelines commenting that if they showed the dog themselves (most not novice handlers) they would not have stood a chance. My own dog has won a few BOB's and done well being placed first to third in his group so it's not sour grapes and believe it or not my dog was placed well at the weekend. In your opinion is it more advantageous to have an experienced professional handler behind your dog, is this the way it is going to go for future ch.shows? Any comments regarding this topic will be greatly appreciated.
Teagan

Welcome to the forum Teagan Leigh

nope i wouldnt want a professional on the end of my dogs lead.
I preffer to do it myself and i do a good a job as a pro would i also handle for other people but i dont charge i do it as i love to be in the ring with the dogs.
i feel aslong as u give 100% and u look clean and smart and your dogs is presented well who needs a handler DIY works for me...
i want my dogs to win on merit and not for any other reason.
Highlight of my Manchester was Liz Dunhill watching ringside as a friend of hers wants a Bully and she had nothing but praise for my bitch thought her construction to be beautiful.
I only know of Liz from the papers and the occasional glance when she is in the ring with one of her breeds i watch her wins with interest but this was a compliment for me as she is a respected lady (by me anyway).

vicki

Hi, would like to add my pennys worth to this discussion. I have a 61/2 mnth old Gordon Setter who is my 1st Gordon,my first pedigree dog and my 1st show dog. Manchester was my 1st champ show, having been to 1 open show, so I am totally unknown and would have been pleased if Onyx had just behaved. we got VHC in MPB and 2nd in PB (beating some "faces") not bad for an unknown!

Welcome to the forum Did you manage to find a ringcraft class in MK in the end? Leigh

Hi Liz is a well respected judge in our/her own breed of rotties,helpful and doesnt dilly dally around,she even does one to one handling at her home.
And if Liz said it then it IS a complement well done.

yes i agree dogs that win in most rings may be on merit, but in some,. inc ours champ show judges are showing dogs next to novice owners .the prob is when the champ show judges leave the ring they hand the dog back to novice owners at the ringside who know that with a known face behind the dog it has a better chance of winning, strange how some dogs faults disappear when a face handles them. no matter it seems how good a novices dog is ,the dog stands a better chance if a face takes it in the ring.

P.S. what happened to all us responsible dog owners that left dog poop all over the pavements on route to the GMEX?

I've had 3 pom's in my 20 years of showing that I was told were worthy of champion status and the most they got was a res. cc. Many of the top people offered to show my dogs, although they were well handled by myself so that they cd. be made up and I said no. To me making up a champion is not worth it until you yourself is handling the dog and no matter what I will never let someone else handle mine. Maybe I'm naive, I don't know, but I just wouldn't enjoy it as much.

I must be mad because of course now I have my SWD's and I suppose it'll be 20 years before they even get a breed class, never mind a cc!

thanx ,i think you have backed up what i have been saying. nice to know that we are not alone.