My sister's friend's bitch (pug, first time) had three puppies and one born dead. I think they are about 2-3 weeks old and well the other one (smallest) died today....She wants to keep the last pup but that was what the stud owner wanted for a fee...She doesn't know what to do, I said to see if they would take half a stud fee since there is only one pup and who knows if this one may make it. They said this one is the biggest and eats real well. Don't know what would of caused the lil one to die or one to be born dead...What would you do if you were in this situation? I know the stud dog did his job and with out him they wouldn't have the pup...What happens if the pup dies?

Edit: the bitch came down with a hotspot and she was told to put this spray on her and also givin Batril (sp) pills to give her for a bit I think a week or so. Could this have caused this pup to go down hill? The other one seems to be doing fine. Is that ok for nursing mothers?

I have no idea really what to tell her. I told her they should of had a written agreement not just a verbal one

It is sad

As far as I know (from reading the boards here in the past) the stud fee HAS to be paid as the stud dog did his job ...so she either needs to hand over the puppy or pay the stud dog owner. As there is only one pup left, maybe the SD Owner would accept payment rather than a pup? I would offer payment if I desperately wanted to keep the singleton puppy

Dollface,

I take it there was no additional clause dealing with dead puppies or single puppies.  

Generally I think if a puppy is used as payment then this is because the bitch owner has agreed this which is not always the best way. 

I guess really she would need to speak to the stud owner at the end of the day it really comes down to how reasonable they are. We could all say what we would do in this situation but people are all different. 

If a stud fee had been paid and the puppies died or a singleton resulted most stud dog owners would give a free return but as she didn't pay a stud fee anyway she can't have that option.  Think best to go speak to the stud dog owner.

It may be worth paying for the puppy as the fee and seeing if they can get a free return.

Oh, waht a sham, I do sympathise wiht your Sister - I had 3 pug pups in June and woudl have devastated if anything had happened to them!  If I was your sister I would certainly contact the dogs owner and ask if a stud fee would be acceptable as only 1 pup has survived and  she obviously wants to keep it.  They may agree to this, may agree to a pup from a second mating (or might even waive the fee altogether)  there are no hard and fast rules.  However,  they can insist on the agreed payment, which is the puppy.  It wont seem fair, but it was the agreement.  I dont know what Batril is, but lots of medication can have adverse effects on in whelp bitches - we have had disastrous results in the past with Frontline, which is meant to be safe for use in pregnancy.   Is your sister USA based too?  If so, if you want to send me deatils of the medication I can ask my American Pug list friends if they have heard of adverse pug reactions with it.

Hope the remaining babes does OK

bye
Gwen

Hi,

What a shame - you can find more info on www.baytril.com, but it does seem to be OK for pregnant bitches from the little I've read.

I would agree with the other posters - the stud has done his job, there were 3 puppies born even if only one is surviving, and no saying what the reasons were.  No doubt that the stud fee is payable, and a puppy was the agreement.

All your sister's friend can do is offer to pay the equivalent stud fee/price of the puppy and hope that the stud owner is either sympathetic or doesn't want the sex/colour/quality that remains.

Easy to be wise after the event, but one very good reason to ensure that stud fees are ALWAYS paid up front - no way I would go through the hard work/trauma/possible expense of a whelping and have someone else with first call on the results.

Hope it works out well and she gets to keep the pup.

Marina

I have had this happen to me in the past, the agreement we came to was that the puppy should be put in joint ownership and I would keep the puppy and if of show quality I would show her, If we then went on to have a litter she would then take her puppy and the mother would be transfered into my ownership, but before then all fees and expenses would be shared.

Thank you all I will let me sister know so she can tell her friend....I will also send her the link

Thanks again

Could help seeing you have pugs, I have a pug to, Gambole, he is 6, and we have just been to view another little one 14 months old pug for company as we lost our little peke 15 weeks ago and gambi is missing him terrible.  We are having him the end of the month for a trial period to see if they get on.  Love pugs such beautiful little dogs and so good natured, though ours is sometimes a little naughty.

Gail

Aaaaaaaaw sorry to hear of your loss I do hope this one fits in nicely, best of luck

Hi There,  if she wants to keep the pup then she will have to front up with the stud. Now the Baytril question, under NO circumstances should Baytril be given to puppies or a bitch who is still feeding pups, if the bitch is so sick that she needs Baytril then the pups should not be allowed to feed off her. I do not know if the drug would cause the pups to go down hill, in fact I don't think so, but it   causes problems with the pups cartiage growth, and if you are large breed breeder like me then it is something we really need to know about. Had a friend who's bitch became unwell when the pups were 5 weeks old, the vet suggested Baytril but first made  very sure that the breeder understood that the pups were not to feed off their mother again. I asked our vet  and he said that he would only recomend baytril if there was  very little hope, the pup would have to be dying. Don't get me wrong baytril is a wonderful drug  just not for lactating bitch's or young pups.

Not suggesting for a minute that I believe all I read but the Baytril website states that pups of a certain age can tolerate it as long as it isn't for an extended length of time without cartilage damage, and that it shouldn't affect unborn pups.

Agree with you that all medication in such cases should be last resort, and would also say that I knew someone years ago who blamed Baytril for some problems experienced, but haven't had personal experience of it.

M.

This is a tough situation for your sister to be in. Unfortunately the stud owner can still insist on taking the puppy as the fee. Hopefully they will be sympathetic and take a monetary fee instead or perhaps wait for the next breeding.

I would highly recommend though in the future to pay a stud fee upfront to avoid these types of situation. I have always paid the stud fee instead of giving the stud owners a puppy. It would be very hard to go through all that and end up having to give them the best puppy in the litter. Generally a stud fee is quite a bit less than the actual cost of a puppy, so if the stud owner gets a puppy they actually get the better end of the deal.