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Previous Next Up Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Umbilical hernia HELP!! (locked)
By eikcin79 Date 27.11.04 02:52 GMT
Ok, I have had a Boston for four years. Two years go I bought a female. She had umbilical hernia surgery before I brought her home. The Breeder told me the mother had chewed the umbilical cord to close. My female had her first litter six weeks ago. She was chewing on the cords on day one. I ran to the vet and explained my concerns from what had happened to the mother due to this chewing. The assistant told me not to worry. It was rare for a mother to actually cause a hernia from this chewing. A bumps on the cord area appeared and did not go away. I took them today for their first set of shots. I showed the vet the bump on ALL FOUR of my Boston Terrier pups. I told him my story about thier mother and what one of his assistants had told me. Oh no, he said this is not from chewing, it is heredity. I got on the enternet to look up information. It talks about true hernias being inherited, but most information was that a umbilical hernia is not inherited. Why do all four of my pups have this? Could it be just as possible that she truly chewed ALL the cords to close? I don't know what to think. I can't find any real information. Can anyone HELP????? Nickie
By gary22U (*) [gb] Date 27.11.04 03:27 GMT
Most umbilical hernia's are hereditary however you can get a swelling without the hernia from the bitch pulling at the cord, if the hernia reduces when you rub it gently and you can feel a small hole inside then it will probably be inherited if however the swelling does not reduce then the hole in the abdominal wall is closed it should never cause the dog a problem and is most likely caused by the bitch being a bit too attentive.
hope this helps
By eikcin79 Date 27.11.04 03:41 GMT
Yes, I can feel it push back into a hole. Does the hereditary hernia cause any problems? Also, I want to keep one of the pups (female) can this be bred out after a few generation? Is it safe to breed them. The mother had one and did fine having her pups. Its just that I had all four pups with this what are the odds? Thanks
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 27.11.04 08:53 GMT
It is generally agreed that umbilical hernias have a hereditary component, and that those affected shouldn't be bred from.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By SharonM (***) [gb] Date 27.11.04 09:07 GMT
I bought a bitch a few years back with the intentions of breeding from her, the breeder (a good friend at the time) knew this but told me again that the mum had done this due to chewing too close, after seeing 4 vets they all agreed I shouldn't breed from her as it probably was an inherited condition. 

I did the sensible thing and had my girl spayed
Life is too short to worry about muddy pawprints.....
By gwen (***) [gb] Date 27.11.04 09:26 GMT
Just to add my bit to what everyone else had said,  yes they are a hereditary defect.  Unfortunately  it used to be thought that they were caused by over attentive mums, and this school of thought still persists :-( .  It would not be wise to breed on from any of your pups.  As you have seen with your first litter you have 100% affected.
bye
Gwen
By Puppycat (**) [gb] Date 27.11.04 10:05 GMT
Although....
My girl who does not have a hernia herself, in her first litter - natural birth she had 3 out of 8 pups with a hernia, she was literally swinging them to break the cords (before i could get there lol).  Pups with hernias were first ones out i tok the others off her and sorted cords myself.
Second litter of 6 were by c section and not one hernia.

So mom can cause them.
By Zoe (**) [gb] Date 27.11.04 13:58 GMT
Nothing about your dog just wanted to post cos I just had surgery for umbilical hernia :p
"Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail."
By giggles Date 07.01.05 01:17 GMT
I have a German Sheptard with a umbilical hernia. She is one years old and after reading some things you guys wrote i dont belive my vet. They told me its ok to breed her and she shouldnt have any problems having a litter. I did go to another vet and they said the same thing that she shouldnt have and problems. Now im beginning to wonder about that. The herina is very small and you cant really see it but you can feel it. what do you think?? Should I breed her? Or have her fixed. Thanks......
By Brainless (*****) [gb] Date 07.01.05 01:38 GMT
have a read of this article and see it it is what your vets have found and what you think.

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/umbilical.html
Barbara and the Grey Curly Tails.
By sheppiemad (*) [gb] Date 07.01.05 18:45 GMT
My girl had a litter 6 months ago, neither her or the sire of the litter have a hernia.
She had 3 bitches and 2 dogs, the dogs were the first and the last puppies to be born. The 3 bitches had hernias and the 2 dogs didnt.
When she had the pups she didnt know what to do with the first puppy(dog), so I sorted the cord out myself, the second, third and fourth puppies the mother chewed herself (all 3 bitches), the last dog was born and she had been in labour for 26 hours so she was very tired so I did the dogs cord myself.

I am pretty certain that the hernias in the 3 bitches were due to mum swinging them around whilst trying to sever the cords, the 2 dogs that I did myself are fine.

IMO It is abit of both, in my case Im sure that if I did the cords myself then they wouldve been fine, but you never know do you?
By britney1000 (***) [gb] Date 08.01.05 15:41 GMT
I have a Tibetan Spaniel that is 8 years old, she has a hernia so we never bred, I am pleased we did not as her sister was bred from  twice and each time she has pups with hernia's in her litters. Just my experience
Forget artificial intellegence Find a cure for real stupidity
By taggartgolf [gb] Date 08.02.05 16:55 GMT
What are the consequences of having pups with umbilical hernias? Is it dangerous to the dog or does it just mean that they can't be showdogs?
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 08.02.05 17:09 GMT
Hernias vary in their severity - a bad one can be life-threatening, so it's best to avoid the tendency and only breeding from unaffected individuals, just in case.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By cowgirl68966 Date 04.02.09 20:09 GMT
I just bought a victorian bulldog and found out after I paid for him that he had a hernia that they had fixed.. If I use him for breeding will he through that or will the pups be ok?? I was hoping to be able to use him for breeding since he cost so much. Please help!
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 04.02.09 20:22 GMT
It's possible that he'll pass the condition on to his puppies so no, he shouldn't be used for breeding and should just remain your much-loved pet.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By white lilly (***) [gb] Date 04.02.09 21:35 GMT
can any of the other dogs in a litter pass on umbilical hernias if 1 of the pups had 1 in the litter? hope that makes some sense lol (needing my bed lol)
By Nova (****) Date 04.02.09 21:45 GMT
White Lily, yes, if one pup has a hernia that is caused by a hereditary reason then all the pups can pass it on to any pups they may have.
Jackie H
By Nova (****) Date 04.02.09 21:46 GMT
What is a Victorian Bull dog is it one of the Staffie crosses?
Jackie H
By white lilly (***) [gb] Date 04.02.09 21:49 GMT
thanks nova thats what i thought :-) x
By Papillon (**) [gb] Date 05.02.09 14:37 GMT
Next door had a dog they said was a Victorian Bulldog, it looked a lot like a long legged Staffy with a wider type of head, I'm not sure they are established as a breed with a fairly uniform appearance yet.
By mahonc (***) [gb] Date 05.02.09 14:53 GMT
i agree, i bought a bitch with a hernia not to breed from then bought her mum as she was up for sale at a later date, she was accidently mated and has 5 pups, 3 with hernias so in a total of 9 pups that mum had (she didnt have a hernia herself) she ended up producing 4 with!
one dane, two dane. three dane four, five dane, six dane, seven dane MORE
By cowgirl68966 Date 07.05.09 17:22 GMT
a victorian bulldog is a mixture of an american with an english.. his mom is american and his dad is english.. He looks just like an english will get to be about 16" and up to 75 pounds.. but look english, with way less health issues.. english bulldogs have lots of eye issues, breathing issues, as to where victorians dont.. He is an awesome dog.. Love him to pieces. id recommend one to anyone.
By Isabel (****) [gb] Date 07.05.09 17:43 GMT
So you are assuming that this cross breed will inherit only the best qualities of the two types? :-)
Rather puts you in mind of when Isadora Duncan suggested to George Bernard Shaw that with her beauty and his brains they should have a child together.  He replied "What if it has my beauty and your brains?"
When you cross two different types you never know what you will get do you :-)
Eco Warrior - Motto "vous serez tous désolé"
By carolyn (***) [gb] Date 07.05.09 17:43 GMT
Not all Victorians are healthy they arent a recognised breed for health issues to be monitored, and not all bulldogs are unhealthy.
My bulldogs do not have breathing or eyes issues,we heart and eye test our bulldogs.
An empty vessel makes the most noise. :-)
By Em (*) [gb] Date 07.05.09 17:58 GMT
A victorian bulldog is a cross breed unpredictable in shape size and charateristic so how you can say what size your dog will grow I dont know (must be a wild guess, or a load of bull the so called breeder told you) they are made from one of many breeds and that is why there is no guidelines to what they will grow into. More often than not these type of cross breed dogs end up in homes as they do not live upto the owners expectations. Cross breeding should not be happening in any breed!!!
As for a healtier Bulldog thats just an excuse the puppy farmers like to use so they can charge ridiculous amounts of money for a mongral!!
And as to you wanting to breed your cross breed as he cost you alot of money, more fool you!!! You are the type of person who give good breeders a bad name!!
There is health issues amongst all breeds and good serious RESPONSIBLE breeders go out of their way to breed healthy dogs not CROSS BREEDS.
By Liz_R (*) [gb] Date 08.05.09 11:36 GMT

>A victorian bulldog is a cross breed unpredictable in shape size and charateristic so how you can say what size your dog will grow I dont know (must be a wild guess, or a load of bull the so called breeder told you) they are made from one of many breeds and that is why there is no guidelines to what they will grow into. More often than not these type of cross breed dogs end up in homes as they do not live upto the owners expectations. Cross breeding should not be happening in any breed!!!As for a healtier Bulldog thats just an excuse the puppy farmers like to use so they can charge ridiculous amounts of money for a mongral!!
>And as to you wanting to breed your cross breed as he cost you alot of money, more fool you!!! You are the type of person who give good breeders a bad name!!
>There is health issues amongst all breeds and good serious RESPONSIBLE breeders go out of their way to breed healthy dogs not CROSS BREEDS.


Please be more tolerant to Em, you sound very angry.
No matter what you do to me, I will not give you the power to make me hate.
By perrodeagua (****) [gb] Date 09.05.09 09:26 GMT
Funny looking at the few that have been hipscored on the BVA they're not any better!
If I wanted a Poodle, OES, TT or IWS I would have bought one. SWD's shd. be natural and rustic. No
By cockerpup [gb] Date 04.09.09 10:51 GMT
I'm getting a working bred cocker of a friend soon. She has a tiny umbilical hernia, I recognised it because one of my cats had one. My friend is a very reputable breeder and has been breeding since before he hit double digits as it is the profession of both his parents so I know he would not breed from dogs with hereditary conditions but I am concerned that it will need surgery to fix. I've spoken to our vets who say that it will cost a minimum of £200 and a max of over £500 to fix if it needs it which means I can't afford the pup at all. He owns the pups parents, their parents etc etc and none of them have had any problems, none of the other pups do either and it is really small. But has anyone had a dog that had a hernia that was definately not hereditary and had to have it surgically fixed? Or if they are just caused by tugging on the cord do they go away on their own? Thanks.
By Jeangenie (*****) [gb] Date 04.09.09 10:54 GMT
If you plan to get the bitch spayed the hernia can be repaired at the same time and at minimal extra cost. If it's very small it should cause no problem even if left.
A closed mouth gathers no feet
By cockerpup [gb] Date 04.09.09 14:02 GMT
I don't intend to get her spayed. With my cat we did just have her spayed, even though hers was huge. I'm hoping it will pop back in but I have very bad luck with animals and unavoidable costs so I'm not that optimistic. Thanks
By JeanSW (****) [gb] Date 04.09.09 14:18 GMT

> max of over £500 to fix if it needs it which means I can't afford the pup at all.


In that case, you shouldn't have the pup.   What if an emergency came up, and you couldn't afford a vet?  Witholding veterinary care means you could face prosecution under the new Animal Welfare Act.
The hurrier I go - the behinder I get!
By TheMutts (*) [gb] Date 04.09.09 14:48 GMT

>A victorian bulldog is a cross breed unpredictable in shape size and charateristic so how you can say what size your dog will grow I dont know (must be a wild guess, or a load of bull the so called breeder told you) they are made from one of many breeds and that is why there is no guidelines to what they will grow into.


It really is a shame that before you get so angry, you should know what it is you are talking about. The Victorian Bulldog was founded and bred by the late Ken Mollett in the mid 1980's and continued by dedicated breeders (which are in fact registered with the Victorian Bulldog Foundation). If it isn't tracable and registered, it isn't a Victorian Bulldog. There are loads of people crossing this bulldog with that bulldog or mastiff and some do unfortunately ride on the back of other more responsible breeders by trying to pass off these dogs as Dorset or Victorian. It's buyer beware and the same in any breed, if you don't do your research and go out and spend stupid money on a dog that you know nothing about, then that is your own fault.

>As for a healtier Bulldog thats just an excuse the puppy farmers like to use so they can charge ridiculous amounts of money for a mongral!!


But it's ok for Bulldog breeders to charge £1,800 for a pup born out of an artificial mating and then c-section? I don't just mean artificial insemination, but cradles that have to hold the bitch in place, so that she can accomadate the dog, dogs that have to be helped to get into the bitch and then held in place because they can't tie... etc... etc... You get puppy farmers in EVERY breed, but don't knock the people that do it right! Bulldogs breeders disgust me, how they are allowed to continue to artificially keep this breed alive is appaulling, because that is what a lot of them are doing. Then to charge the earth for a poor dog that can be driven insane by just trying to scratch an itch, that has so many health problems, can't even lick it's own bottom, needs a bottle of lemon juice on standby in the fridge just in case and often drops dead from heart problems way before it's time...

>There is health issues amongst all breeds and good serious RESPONSIBLE breeders go out of their way to breed healthy dogs not CROSS BREEDS.


Responsible breeders go out of their way, regardless of their choice of breed or cross. Crossbreeding with other breeds is how some breeds have been changed and newer ones created. So I really don't get your point? The KC Bulldog is one very good example!
Handsome is what hansome does...
By TheMutts (*) [gb] Date 04.09.09 15:03 GMT Edited 04.09.09 15:11 GMT

> max of over £500 to fix if it needs it which means I can't afford the pup at all.


>In that case, you shouldn't have the pup.   What if an emergency came up, and you couldn't afford a vet?  Witholding veterinary care means you could face prosecution under the new Animal Welfare Act.


Very valid point... but assuming the puppy would have had insurance from the breeder, then this was carried on, all would be well. Apart from that the problem already exists and therefore wouldn't be covered for by insurance, meaning the new owner has to then fork out for the op out of their own pocket. Should this breeder be knowingly selling a pup with a hernia? Is it not their responsibility to have this fixed and then explain the procedure that has been done and why to the new owners?

I got stung with a pup who came with an Umbilical Hernia (not the hereditory type) that wasn't noticed until I got home. I was never told by the breeder and never did get a response back from them regarding it. In fact, despite sending emails on my pups progress, I never did get one response back from them. Guess they took my £1,250 and ran all the way to the bank with it. All that from a supposed reputable breeder and member of the Breed Club that regularly shows and does well with their dogs.
Handsome is what hansome does...
By perrodeagua (****) [gb] Date 04.09.09 15:20 GMT
If it's as tiny as you say in reality there's a good chance that it will never need operating on.
If I wanted a Poodle, OES, TT or IWS I would have bought one. SWD's shd. be natural and rustic. No
By cockerpup [gb] Date 04.09.09 15:29 GMT
Well I would pay it, obviously it's a living animal. But it would put me in debt, something I'd rather avoid. The breeder is confident that it will pop back in as he's bought pups himself that have had the equivalent and they've never had a problem. I'm also sure that he would offer to help with the cost if it didn't. I just wondered if anyone had had any experience with any that didn't need operating. Thanks for all the replies.
By JaneS (Moderator) [gb] Date 04.09.09 15:36 GMT
Cockerpup, it would be better if you started a new thread if you needed anymore info - this thread seems to be a very old one which was resurrected a while ago and seems to be going off on a tangent re the posts on Victorian Bulldogs which is why I'm closing it now before it gets even more confusing!
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