Hi, We have just got a new Polish Lowland Sheepdog, we've had him for 2wks and he is now 10wks old. But we have a problem with him biting all members of the family especially my 2yr old daughter and my husband when he comes home from work in the evening. When we tell him off and say no he barks and goes to bite even more, and when we ignore him totally he bites quite hard on our trousers and legs and it hurts alot. I am particularly concerned about my daughter. She feeds him with me and we stand and eat a biscuit before he gets his food and we also ignore him for the first few minutes of each time we are away. I know about the alpha sinario but I dont know what behaviour to adopt with him for the best now, I dont want an aggressive dog, can anyone offer any advice please!

Don't worry this is not aggression, just puppy, it does want correcting though. I don't feel able to tell you what to do for the best I am sure some one will soon come to your aid. In the meen time try a spray of water to stop him, try not to let him see where the spray is coming from. Hang in there for better advice. JH

I agree with you Jackie, that this is normal puppy overexcitement. However, just because it's normal, doesn't make it particularly pleasant especially with the larger breeds - ouch!
With my puppy it only happens 1st thing in the mornings when she is so excited to see me that she runs around like a mad gremlin (she's a Lhasa) jumping up,nipping and squealing. I deal with it by holding her tight and stroking her until she calms down ( a bit like you would with a hysterical child). If she still trys to nip I say 'NO' very strongly . I will not let her nip me. She calms down after about 2-3 minutes.
The experts will probably say I am wrong to do this, but as I said, it's the way I would deal with a young child who is over excited and hysterical. The way I see it, there isn't much difference between a young pup and a small child!
Sharon

If just ignoring isn't working, and why should it? You're still there as a target, so he can keep going until he does get a response, try removing yourselves from the area, walk through a door and close it for a few minutes (so long as you are sure he's safe) He will want to be with you - and soon realise that it is his behaviour that is causing you to leave........

HTH

Fran

I agree with Fran - puppies can get enormously confused by us sometimes, and this breed of dog is i beleive very instinctive so you do need to be very consistent and not confrontational (not suggesting you are). Also do try not to react when the pup nips, as he will find this very exciting.

YOu may find you have to go out of the room lots, time and again, but it worked with my bitey pup, also from a herding breed, and is IMHO the best method - we tried several others, the "ouch" scenario which is someties recommended often only works with very sensitive little pups.Most pups just get more excited!!

But the most important thing to the pup is your company - remove that and he will soon understand that biting/mouthing/nipping is just not on!

Be very consistent though - you may feel like a yo-yo for a couple of weeks!!! :D

lindsay

If it was mine, he would get a bloody good wallop [$ learn the meaning of "no" in a couple of easy to understand lessons!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I am probably not allowed to say this on this board!])

But you won't let that stop you will you Sam

Sam,

For someone like me a "new" puppy owner I can't believe you said that! Thank goodness I brought my little Oliver Home and not YOU.
Aggression surely "breeds" Aggression!

Annie

Sometimes you get some very bad advice from people.
The Folks with brains will disregard such rubbish

Sam you are welcome to express your views and opinions, I suspect you may need to justify the reasoning behind your methods a little more thoroughly though

Heelerkay - Do you have any constructive advice to help Niki with her problem ?

Admin.
I feel I gave good advice to niki.
I told her to disregard such rubbish. Is that not constructive advice?

i agree a touch with sam, i use a rolled up newspaper, and give it a swift clonk, it usually works very well and very quickly, sorry if its not everyones idea but it works for me!!!

Dizzy,Im glad you said that because I had posted the same but deleted it as felt people might jump on me,you must be braver than me,yes the rolled up newspaper has always worked for me, only have to say 'wheres the paper' now and its magic.I also think that Sam makes a refreshing change by speaking as she finds.

If a rolled up newspaper had been mentioned. I would not have jumped
in so quick as I find this quite exceptable.
But what is a (A BLOODY GOOD WOLLOP)

well I must say I have always used a rolled newspaper as well . it is necessary to stop them misbehaving in an unacceptable way. I have bullmastiffs . can you imagine them getting away with that. a nip from even a puppy would be dreadfully sore so when the biting starts, and it does, its newspaper time , and they soon get the message. this is not allowed .works for me and it insures my dogs are safe to move on. thing is no harm will come to pup with a swipe of a paper. mari

Thank goodness I'm not alone in giving dogs a smack and being willing to admit it!

I use my hand rather than a newspaper, and find that while a tap on the nose with one finger is enough for a young or sensitive puppy, an older, boisterous, confident pup may well consider anything short of a hard smack to be a pat. (Bullmastiffs are not my breed, but we had one, a much loved and much missed 'guard dog', called Bully Beef because she was solid meaty goodness . Bully loved nothing better than to have you sit in a chair and drum your heels quite hard on her. Apparently she thought this was a delightful massage :D.)

As Dave said, watching a good maternal bitch in action is an education. When a pup gets out of line, and doesn't respond to a glare or growl, he gets grabbed and maybe even nipped. She never does any real harm, and the pup gets a lick immediately afterwards.

Even more to the point, watch a mother who doesn’t discipline the litter, or rather watch how her pups behave. They become little hooligans who not only torture mum, they soon begin to inflict damage on each other as well as on stray human fingers. I had that situation years ago, and by 5 weeks the pups were really hurting each other. Mum preferred to stay away from the little monsters, so I put their very maternal, but very strict granny in with them. (Daz's alpha bitch sounds a lot like Gran, who in her old age still efficiently sorts out youngsters that are too full of themselves :D ). After 48 hours with granny, the litter from hell had become the sweetest little pups you could ask to meet.

Just to get into real trouble I do give my young dogs a bloody good wallop for excessive interest in livestock, and although I've never had to do it, they would get the same if they showed any true aggression (not puppy mouthing) to humans. My dogs are never out unsupervised, but there is always the chance that one will escape, or slip the lead in a field of sheep. I reckon that getting one or two hard smacks as a youngster is a lot better than being shot or put down as an adult for worrying sheep, killing cats or - God forbid - biting a person.

I used to tap my Ridgeback on the nose (and I mean a light tap) for sticking his big nose in my dinner as I sat down, and last year I lost him to bone cancer in the face! Every time I think of tapping him on the nose I beat my self up for doing it now! I suppose you learn by your mistakes and a guilty conscience (even though the vet assures me that it made no diffence I wont ever do it again to my other animals).

Snap Mattie, the rolled up newspaper is my correction method too and like you the words "wheres my newpaper" has a miraculous effect from a long distance too!!! But then I believe in never letting problems start because correcting problems is far more difficult than teaching correct behaviour from the outset and a puppy biting in the way this one is needs sorting PDQ.

I don't believe that Sam meant a whallop to come out as it did, what is a damn good whallop to one person is not necessarily the same to another and in no way do I believe that she meant that she beats her pups up. I will hold my hand up to having given my dogs "a whallop" in the past particularly in the case of dog to dog aggression, when there is no way are they going to hear any of my commands as their blood is up.

Instant correction is the answer, and as someone else said I'm afraid there is no way I will leave a room, that is giving the pup the idea that it has beaten you into retreating. If you see two dogs fighting (not bitches) the underdog will be the one to retreat and no way will any of my dogs ever have the opportunity to think of me as less than top dog.

By the way if you read my posting about the growling puppy you will realise that I do not use aggression in my training, except when the circumstances call for it.

Someone else posted about how a bitch corrects her puppy's, but I will go further than that my Alpha bitch will immediately down a puppy when it steps out of line and would never walk away from it, but I can promise you that all the pups that have grown up here respect her and her authority and have never shown aggression back to her (so I cannot agree that aggressive correction teaches a pup to be aggressive to the corrector).

Regards

Daz

I have found that a pup who just thinks the no is part of the game, and when ignored latches on to any part of the body or clothing handy, is soon brought up sharp, but harmlessly, by a well aimed jet of water straight in the face from a water spray bottle (empty frontline bottle, well rinsed, set to jet). this doesn't hurt, but has shock valye and distracts from the mouthing!

Some pups with strong characters will play in a bullying fashion, as they find it fun they want to do it so there, it is just a game, but can get out of hand with the lower ranking members of the pack, like the children!

I have found that physical confrontation with such a pup only encourages them, as you are touching them, so they can grab you, and their reactions are usuallyfaster than yours!

I started that when mine were young and the little sod in the end used to take the rolled news papers off me and shred it, (with a great sense of achievment and satisfaction) so I resulted to a sqirty bottle which did the trick and in the end just the hand signal of the thing was enough!

I think withdrawal from play would work just as well Sam that was the course of action we took with our terrier when she was a pup. I am glad we took that line because I believe it has taught her that it is alright to play but not to get too rough. At 13 years old she still thoroughly enjoys a roll about on the floor with a silly women, growling her head off flashing her teeth with good humour and never hurting me once, she only does it on my invitation and she stops as soon as I say so and she has learned all this just from us withdrawing from the game, or putting her in another room if she was very excited. I think if we had actively punished her be it with rolled up newspaper or what ever she would never have learned to play which she loves so much.

sorry, have to disagree with that one,, the dogs ive needed to use paper on do still learn to play and inhibit their bite ,its a normal part of growing up,all mine still have a roll around and tussle but never ever get too rough,

Fair enough Dizzy but do you think the same could have been achieved with removal from the play. I do agree a bob with a newspaper is not too severe but if the same end can be achieved with nothing physical why not do it that way.

firstly i wouldnt give a pup the privelage of having bitten,nibbled or whatever at me , then to see me walk out the room, in my veiw the pup has learnt how to capture the focal point , he has removed me,!!!!
if its the pup thats put out, then you're having to pick up or drag or whatever a chewing nipping pup out the room, -still giving him some attention, whereas a quick swipe with a paper and carrying on as if you did nothing is instant,-sorry i wont be removed from my own room,
thats the way i see it ,cant help it

I understand your point, but from the pup's perspective he doesn't see it as a triumph that you left the room - the LAST thing he wants is to be left alone! If they wanted you gone they wouldn't put up such a fuss when you go out:)

But each person has their own way - each of them work - what's best is to find out what works with your dog. Ours dislike the water gun - but they're NOT afraid of it - they will even drink out of it. The gun gives them a choice - do the wrong behaviour and get wet - or choose not to get wet. Sometimes they choose to get wet! They're stubborn.

With the biting - we held her nose and said 'no biting' until she was prepared to quit. We still allowed some playing and rough-housing, but they learned really quickly that 'all done' meant the game was done. They knew if our hands were covered by sleeves that wrestling and some teeth were okay, but the second the bare hand appeared the teeth stopped. Have done it this way for years. We also have 'blanket monster' where hands are under the blanket and they attack, but the second hand comes out from under they stop with the teeth and stop the game.

Dizzy, it does not have to involve leaving the room, I don't think I ever did, just refuse to play anymore.

Like others have said it's not really aggression at that age , he jsut hasn't got any manners yet!With Buddy we gently move him away from us but if he persists we remove him to the kitchen for 5 mins and then invite him back in to play with a toy, if he gets over excited again we just start over, he seems to be getting the message quite well now and rarely ends up in the kitchen.
On a totally different approach ,I did have a GSD a long time back who used to nip continually at my legs so one day out of sheer fustraton I bit him back on his ear!! Not hard I hasten to add but it did seem to work! Didn't taste too good as we'd just been down the fields!!and he was a long haired monster

Sam's comments may seem a bit strong, but if you watch the actions of a puppy's mother, and to some extent it's brothers and sisters in a similar situation, you will see her take some pretty swift, firm action.

She will make a lot of noise, glare at the pup, and if it continues, possibly grab the pup and exert some serious (for the pup) physical force.

I'm not sure to what extent Sam means by 'a good wolloping', I hope he doesn't mean a good beating, but wouldn't emulating its mother's actions be productive?

The difference between play biting & real biting.

Most dogs mouth their owner’s hands & clothes as puppies. Most owners quite unwittingly encourage this by letting them! Some owners positively encourage this by turning games into play fights! Play fights are great fun because this is how most dogs play with each other. But, while a puppy play fighting with other dogs will learn valuable lessons like, biting hurts, a puppy play fighting with humans often gets confusing messages! When pup starts to bite too hard, he gets slapped so he bites the hand that slapped him – it’s all part of the game isn’t it? He also learns that interaction with humans entails much excitement! At the sight of human hands, he starts to jump up & mouth. He gets pushed away sometimes so he goes back for more that’s how humans like to play isn’t it?

IT IS AN INTERESTING FACT THAT BOYS & MEN DO MOST PLAYFIGHTING WITH DOGS – IT’S A MAN THING!

Women rarely do it! So ladies, get tough! Do not allow your sons, husbands, boyfriends, brothers, fathers and other male friends & relatives to teach your dog bad habits! If they’re doing it already – put a stop to it! Lots of dogs are got rid of because of play biting being mistaken for real biting when it’s not their fault! Some dogs, particularly those with strong characters may see play fighting as a trial of strength & dominance and may start getting serious about it as they get older – sometimes with disastrous consequences!

Real biting is unmistakable! The dogs’ pupils dilate, his lips lift to reveal his teeth, he may slaver and snarl, in fact his whole body language conveys the message that he’s about to bite. Humans often fail to recognise these signals and carry on doing whatever is upsetting the dog. The dog then bites. Some dogs may give no apparent warning. This is because some warning signals are hard to see – another dog would pick up on them but unless the human is experienced in canine behaviour they are not recognised early enough.

So take the good advice offered by people on this board and disregard the less informed ones!!!

Good luck!

Well I agree with Sam. Sometimes a short sharp shock to say THAT IS ENOUGH is what is required, and it seems that is what is required here. Not to continue doing it because it probably wont be necessary.
Ted

With my shelties when I need to give a sharp quick correction like it's mother would I grab him by the ruff around the neck , give a guick shake and say NO! In a deep commanding voice. This gets their attention, then I redirect to some behavior I like, Like SIT and then followed with a good puppy! I don't like to pop them on their heads, because this breed can become easily head shy and they posses a long memory, like that of the PON mentioned. Talk to the puppy's breeder, because it's important not to make the situation worse. Some of the methods talked about will only compound the problem, the breeder should be able to tell you what is affective with this breed.

So what happens when the pup whose had 'a bloody good wallop' decided he's had enough and retaliates with equal ferocity?......

well id say its position in the pack is questionable wouldnt you, although id use a paper and depending on the pup and its character also breed i might give it a good scruff or a pin down -i wouldnt expect the pup to turn on me ,if a pup as young as that turns on its owner then id say it was going to cause a lot of problems sooner or later----im talking normal and fair correction here -not brutality which a lot of shy and well adjusted pups alike would go into defence mode over, and you couldnt blame them , its a survival trait,

I wouldnt say the postion in the pack is questionable...I woud say it is a dog with an active defence reflex (which Polish pups have) defending itself from a frightening human.

Sorry!

Lindsay

sorry digger but when you start to be dominated by a puppy its time to throw the towel in lets face it we all love dogs on here or why the hell would we bother logging on to the site short sharp shock is no bad thing.Dont know how old you are but I was child of the sixties and got a regular slap and at school !!!!perish the thought nowadays that children are hit but im sorry it did me no harm at all!! having said that I only hit my son once and By god he deserved it still remembers it today but guess what my son adores his mum and I him and he would do anything for me.
Lets be sensible here a rolled up paper works miracles,and respect is the word here an animal at the end of a day is that no matter how much we adore them.

As a child of the fifties, I got 'the taw', or else a rap over the knuckles with a ruler from a wide range of teachers, and I'm grateful to almost all of them .

My husband was born in 1945, and his dad wasted money by sending him to a posh boarding school where the prefects were allowed to beat the other boys. Their favourite weapon was an old running shoe with a golf ball in the toe. I don't much like the idea of young men physically punishing boys, given the tendency many lads in their teens have to be bullies when they can get away with it. But Ian says it didn't do him any harm, and that he preferred a sore backside to detention, lines or whatever.

When he was about 15 my older step-son said that some of the boys in his class were having a hard time coping with their peers, because - in his words - they "suffered from" parents who "pissed about" with time-out, sending them to their room, 'gating' and other "politically correct codology". He collected a fair few smacks in his time - always given in cold blood - but at 30 he is someone to be proud of, so they can't have damaged him too much.

i agree we all have differnt ideas and are entitled to them, but why smack when other ways work just as well? I have smacked dogs in the past, but would never ever choose to do so now, because i have other ways which I believe/know work. Many people have mentioned what the bitch does - ah yes indeedy, but how many people really study what happens? Do they only see the admonishment?

I regularly visited my Terv pup from 24 hours old til 8 weeks, at the breeders, and the main thing that struck me was that, after a warning growl from mum Jenna, and the threat of a snap if this was ignored, what did she do?

She removed contact with the pup - for a few seconds, and then and only then did she behave in a friendly way again.

Also there was a rescue dog who had been disciplined with a newspaper, and one day the new owner was walking past someone and the dog just leapt into attack. Why? Because the passer by, poor fellow,was folding up a newspaper!!!

Sorry if i appear blunt, and not meaning to offend, but I do feel owners use a smack because either they don't know what else to do, because they lack patience or are frustrated, or because it is seen as being a quick method. I feel I can say this because I have been there in the past when a teenager.

lindsay

Nothing breaks my heart more than to see a dog duck away from a hand or from something in my hand. I vowed I would NEVER again put my dog in a situation where they couldn't trust that a hand coming towards them was anything but friendly. I do have to admit to the occasional light smack on the bum in a serious situation, but that is rare, and still doesn't cause them to duck away as I have never hit them in the face/head etc.

They don't even duck away from the water bottle. They just stop. And then they'll occasionally come up and nose at it till I give a light enough spray that water drips out and they'll drink from it.

I test the 'duck' response occasionally by aiming a quick hand over their head or an empty pop bottle that they're playing with just to see - and they don't even flinch - they just look at me like - 'duh mom - you're just being stupid.'

Wendy

I used to be able to hold my hands above my Tervs and bring them down quickly and laugh with joy to see them still looking up and me with love and trust, even though the hand was half an inch from them....and they were very well behaved and trained (better than BAnya, Wendy LOL!!!) before anyone thinks I let them run riot or anything.

As Wendy said, I used to say "no" on occasion when they were younger, but we all fitted together so well I hardly ever had to even say that. One reason i believe it is possible to have a well behaved dog without resorting to physical punishment.

Tervs are also very active (some not knowing them would say hyper :D) and easily get into trouble through being bored or whatever, so I had my work cut out, with 2 pups at the same time. It was the best time of my life though.

lIndsay

I couldn't agree more Wendy. I once lightly smacked my puppy on his nose with a newspaper beause he was being persistently naughty in a certain situation. I didn't do it very hard but his reaction made me feel very bad. He ran and hid in the kitchen under the table, and I had to coax him out. Ever since then, he's always remembered what happened and when the situation arises for which he was reprimanded, he suddenly crouches and slinks off. OK it has cured his bad behaviour but it's heartbreaking to see how he now reacts, and I'm very sorry I ever wrapped him on the nose with a paper. I'm sure some bigger breeds of dogs wouldn't be so sensitive to this, but many smaller ones are. I think the water spray method would be far kinder than a smack, especially on the nose or face.

I do think you make a good point. If you're dealing with giant breeds, what would be a smack for a small dog would be a tap to them, so of course that goes into consideration. Just for me personally on the few occasions I even give a small smack on the bum - the look I get makes me feel so bad that I could never use it as a regular correction.

Wendy

Hi Lindsay, because I'm not convinced that other methods do always work as well. Like Sam I have giant breeds, sighthounds with very strong hunting instinct. Adult wolfhounds or deerhounds could dispatch us easily if they chose to, and the deerhounds (and the wolfhounds that choose to work) would have little problem in pulling down a cow. Fortunately they have what must be amongst the most solid breed temperaments in dogdom so aggression is well nigh unknown, but if a stubborn adult wolfhound decides that it is not going to do something when you tell it not to, there is precious little the average owner can do about it: and if an adult deerhound is in full flight after forbidden prey, well you surely are not going to be able to catch it!

So I need my hounds to have certain rules so well ingrained as puppies that they don't even consider breaking them as adults. They have to know that the slightest sign of dominating me - even by stubborn defiance - will not be tolerated, and that while rabbits, hares and foxes are fair game, sheep, cats, horses, cattle, small dogs etc are not.

As long as there is a clear understanding on a very few absolute rules, I'm pretty easy going with the dogs. Most of the time I'll step over the hound snoozing in the doorway, but if my elderly mother or father-in-law are staying I need to know that the same hound will move instantly when it is told to in a certain tone of voice. If we meet a child on a pony that is only half under control (and this area is coming down with same), I need to know that the hounds will come instantly to heel, although they are friendly with many horses, and may just have been chasing some legitimate prey.

With all respect, I just do not believe that the average owner - including me - can achieve instant obedience when required, with the average hound by entirely non-physical methods. That isn't to say that I don't applaud those who can, but imo too many rural dogs create a problem because their owner can not. As Sam says, its just no good thinking that you can get away with the hound that chases the sheep once, because the neither the sheep (nor the farmer!) are apt to be impressed.

I love to watch the interactions of the dam and puppies at different stages. Because they are giants that develop slowly both mentally and physically, I like to keep pups until they are 12 weeks, and since I only breed when I intend to keep at least one pup, I have the chance to see how mum behaves with older pups as well. In my experience a good maternal bitch is 100% love until the pups start to emerge from the whelping box, then she gradually becomes stricter as the pups get older, and she maybe begins to act differently to different pups. I can only speak for sighthounds, but the dam does hurt and frighten older pups when she is teaching them 'to be proper sighthounds', never mind when she is disciplining them. While the overbearing 4 week puppy will just get a growl, at 12 weeks mum will roar and snap at the same pup. She never causes any real injury, but she does nip them - as do the ranking pack members if the pup gets out of line after it is no longer under mum's direct protection (usually at 16 -20 weeks imo). What I do think is maybe different from a frustrated human punishing an older pup, is the way that the dam/older dog will snap a pup without anger. It is done, dusted and instantly forgotten by the adult, who doesn't simmer on in fury the way a human might.

I'd be totally horrified if any of my dogs were hand shy or scared of me, but they are not. I use very different methods depending on the individual dog. In my experience some need no more than a sharp voice while others require much firmer management. The hounds that need most discipline are the dominant ones that go on to be high ranking within the pack, and I depend on my pack leader a lot. In one sense, as long as the pack leader respects me as ultimate top dog I can largely stop worrying about the others. So I am much firmer with wannaba alpha youngsters, but looking back over the years the dogs that I have had the closest and deepest relationship with as adults, tend to be the very ones that I have disciplined most as youngsters.

At present I have an 11 year old wolfhound who has never had so much as a tap, and who is till given a cuddle if I'm telling another dog off, because she tends to worry that she has maybe been bad too. She isn't nervous, just very sensitive, loving and anxious to please. Had I ever been even slightly harsh with her, I'm sure it would have had exactly the opposite of the effect wanted. But if I treated our 13 year old deerhound the same way, she would have thought - and would still think - that I am a complete charlie, and not worthy of any respect from her at all - not that I get all that much from the same lady anyway . Yet although I love both, my relationship with the oft-spanked deerhound, and her's with me, is close in a way that isn't possible with the sensitive wolfhound.

Sorry to go on at such length. I don't mean to offend either, and am just thinking aloud!

Hi Sharon, what a great read your posting read.............common sense prevails..........also, I know exactly what you mean about deerhounds shoving you out of bed, my youngest one is a complete horror once she gets her head on the pillow she edges her way across the duvet until I have a minute inch of bed to cling to & no duvet atall!!! And they are all elbows & boney bits too!

When my parents smacked me I was totally humililated and lost trust in them - maybe it depends on the child

I do bellieve in discipline, and not allowing kids to run riot (how i hate rude kids, and ones that run round the supermarket screaming), but kids can be given good discipline without smacking. Some kids i know who have been smacked end up smacking their parents back, it's awful

Lindsay

Welcome to the forum DaveN Leigh

I knew I would get a few comments, but not believing in all this PC cosh, I tend to speak my mind!
Ok, let me explain.........I have giant breeds/hounds, they are bred to work and have very strong instincts.
Firstly, in reply to the person who said what if the pup retaliates? Well if one of my pups had a sense of aggression that made it behave like that I would be VERY worried about my breeding plan!!! I recently had a youngster who started play nipping, now bearing in mind its going to stand 30" at the shoulder & have a natural instinct to chase, my hound had to have a very reliable temperament, so when this behavior started to become unacceptable (ie it was happening when the pup dictated it, too hard and too often) I scruffed her, put her on her back, kneeled over her and shouted no in her face. She tried it on again and she got the same treatment but with what I term "a bloody good wallop" (ie a smack on the bum) and another firm "NO" which soon ended the problem as she understood the word no. I have seen countless dogs who think "no" means " oh please don't do that, well ok, just once more then"
WHat rubbish..no means no, whether its a child or a dog. You can't say "NO, don't run into the road under that car, well just the once then"
All my dogs learn the pack order, ie me at the top and what I say, goes. Not in 10 minutes, not after 5 commands, but for their safety & that of other people,its now. For this behaviour I am rewarded with loving hounds whom I can take out 5 at a time, no leads and keep with me or with my horse just by 2 commands and carrying a hunting whip. They have never ever been hit with a hunting whip, before someone suggests this....they simply learn from day one, that you do not go past it because it makes a noise if you do...and so does Mum!!
So, no beating, no cruelty, just simple common sense combined with a few commands which have to be obeyed, plus treating them as a pack, with a strict pack hierachy and teaching young pups with the same discipline as their bich mother would/does.
Oh yes, just to throw the modernists into dissaray......... they take it in turns to sleep on my bed every night!!!

Common sense..... how refreshing Apart from the sleeping on the bed bit lol

HI Leigh,

Wolfhounds generally keep to their own side, have nice cosy full lengh hairy chests, don't snore, don't fart, don't make unreasonable demands and they wake you up by gently whuffling in your ear in the morning. Altogether a great improvement on husbands.

Deerhounds are cosy too, but they have an awful lot of angular bits and most do a nifty job of edging the human out onto the floor. IMO most of them score slightly lower than husbands

Hiya Sharon, gentle whuffling in my ear.... sounds like bliss :D
Unfortunately, all I would get is 90lb of Italian 'stallion' doing a HPR on my eyelashes I'll stick to Bear's thanx Leigh

I'LL SWAP !!!!!!