Hi there, I have just come across this site. You may find it helpful and interesting

http://realgsd.net/index_en.htm

Interesting site. Kind of supports my rant about US breeding to extremes on another posting. But there are some mythical stereotypes the author is posting about Germans and the purity of dogdom and ownership within Germany. It may be so for the average GSD...but I've lived here and I have seen so much of the bad along with the good.
Example: American Neighbor purchased a German GSD -- for the next two years I watched this poor dog run around with the extremely deformed rear hind legs that are being seen as common in the US. The front legs/chest area were normal, but the rear hips and legs were dwarfed and permanently crouched. Perhaps, these are German breeders aiming for American tastes, but still its unethical and bad for the breed.

2nd example: A German Vet & Kennels near where I live, go over to Poland and cheaply buy up litters of puppies (Yorkies, Maltese, Cockers, etc..) and sell them at $600 each. No shots are given and many times the puppies have parvo. Many people have had dogs/cats become very ill at this location during boarding. No one seems to want to shut them down. I'd consider this a puppy mill. (source: my vet, groomer, and the locals know this)

Another popular myth this site seemed to be saying: All Germans love taking their dogs to Schutzhund or other forms of training. It is rare to have the ill behaved GSD. ---Hate to say it, but this is not in my experience at all. I've travelled all over Germany and it is rare for me to come across a gentle & quiet GSD on the paths. Where I live, there are about five owners that I regularly come across when I walk my dogs. Only one possesses a GSD that can walk quietly along when we pass. The others struggle and pull their dogs off the trail about 10 feet before I can pass. One GSD, that I've seen since puppyhood is unpredictable and wildly struggles to be with my bitches (they're spayed, so being in heat is not the question). I don't know if he wants to "visit" or "attack". I think, just like other modern industrial nations, more people own dogs +also have less time to take them to training.

Oh, last Sept. a six month old male Black GSD escaped his fenced yard and actually attacked my 8 year old Dach/Westie. He grabbed her by the hips and slung her around as if she was a rat. He dropped her and picked her up like this three more times, the last time, his buddy, an adult GSD grabbed her by her harness and proceeded to try to tug her away in a sick tug o' war game. I thought her back would be broken, but other than bruises and fear, she was ok. What really hit me, was my helplessness in the matter. I could not get a hold of her after she was grabbed from my side.
The owner, who had been inside at the time, proceded to try to tell me that it had been my fault and that he was only playing. This was the second time they had escaped the fence yard, and the woman was offering no assurances that this would not happen again, so I made a police report. Apparently, there is a dedicated police officer in the City Hall to handle dog attacks. I live in a large town/tiny city, and to hear this makes me realize more is going on than most breeders/afficianados want to admit. Winter & a broken ankle came on, so I haven't been back that direction, but it was a regular path that I took with my bike & dogs. I just don't want that to happen again.

What is really odd with the various levels of Dangerous Dog breeds for the different German States, no one has declared any German breed as "dangerous" which needs to be controlled. The most restrictive is Bavaria, where SBT and PBT types + Neopolitian Mastiff, Tosa, and I think Bull mastif were declared as Dangerous. Um, has anyone heard anything about a deadly Neopolitan attact in the last five years or more? I sure haven't. GSDs, Rottweilers, and Dobies, as much as I like all of the breeds have just as much problems here as others. Perhaps, the German State fear that controlling a native breed is unecessary.

Hi there, this is truly horrible, and I wish I could show this posting to all the show breeders who rant and rave about Germanic dogs and who try to tell me that my gentle big cream longcoat is not a 'real' GSD and should never have been bred...
Its good to hear the truth about the situation in Germany from someone who is experiencing it first hand...but is it not true that there are GSD breed wardens across there that go around and assess every dog before it can be used for breeding?

even if the wardens checked the parents out as suitable for breeding, we all know you can rear a well adjusted outgoing happy pup-BUT if the new owners havent got a clue, then all things can change, its part breeding but also part rearing, as its a breed that will id imagine be used as a guard dog then perhaps the owners dont bother to socialise the pups at all --its not always the dogs fault,

Hi Bear...love the long coated GSDs In my opinion there is not really any such thing as a 'Pure' example of a breed, since humans have been tinkering with doggy genetics for hundreds of years :D The purest dog there is, has been acknowledged to be a nondescript middle sized brownish shepard-like dog--or that's what canine kind would wanna look like if it was left up to them

Here's what I've grown to understand about registration and membership for breeds here, especially GSDs, and it has been gleaned over the years. A puppy has to be whelped from registered parents. There is a certain color of paperwork (pink, I think they call it that), that goes along with it to the next owner. BEFORE it is bred, the dog/bitch must have been tested for its final set of paperwork (green?). It must pass conformation, (obedience--not sure of this one), AND temperament tests. I think if a bitch is pregnant, there might be a waiver...but if the pups come, that's it. She MIGHT become certified, but not that litter of pups...ever. I'm not sure what the evaluator is called, probably "....meister" (.....master) could be? Anyone out there know for certain?

Of course, that doesn't mean that people are not breeding and selling even though their dog/bitch is not certified. That's probably what happened with the GSD that my neighbor had. There's a growing demand in Germany for dogs of all breeds. I know that us Americans are spoiled with the variety of breeds available in the US. It sounds as if its about the same in the UK. Here in Germany, it is much harder to obtain certain breeds of dogs, even the "national" ones.

The breeding community in Germany doesn't seem to have anywhere near the impact of the UK & US. I know for a long time, that dogs were considered either a necessary working partner, or a luxury item. 8 years ago, I had a German friend who drove cross country from Bitburg (near the Lux. border) all the way to Nuremburg to get his mother a pet quality maltese puppy. It cost around $1200 (abt. 950 pounds- I think).

Around the same time period, I knew a couple whose adult children had finally left the nest. They paid a large amount for a wonderful GSD. Their daughter, a close friend of mine, still complains that her parents treat the dog much nicer and better than her and her siblings ever experienced

Don't get me wrong, it's wonderful living in Germany with dogs. I love it so much in comparison where I lived before. In Reit am Winkel, a Bavarian resort without much English speakers :D , I had so many people coming up and asking about my girls. I had an elderly woman "run" outside with a bowl of water, so that she could have the pleasure of giving them something. (she didn't notice the water bottle on the side of my husband's backpack & I didn't have the heart to tell her.) Life is pretty good here for dog owners. Even dog signs not allowing dogs into the stores, are politely phrased with "bleiben" (remain outside please) and not bluntly stated with "verboten" (forbidden).

I just don't like seeing stereotypes blooming in either direction-- a paradise with perfect dog ownership --- or --- hell with strict cruel laws for hated dogs. Neither gives a realistic portrait of a country. There are good points and bad points, just like anywhere else :D
toodles

Hmm I couldn't get the site up

You have to manually type it in.. She didnt put it in link format. It should come up without any problem. I just tried it again, just to check if it was ok.
toodles.

Nope - I copied the link into my browser and it still isn't coming up - must be my server

Too bad, it's an interesting site. Have you tried just the first part of the addy, up to the .net? That might help. I've been able to do that sometimes when I'm having problems.
good luck.

I've put it in my favs and will try it later.

http://realgsd.net/index_en.htm I wonder if this will work Banger

Yes it is my server. I tried a different dialup and got throught to the site no problem - I've already spotted some info on drives and temprement - good site :D

Hi Banger, Sorry I didnt put it up as a link, hope you found the site of some help.

Ok for all GSD lovers I can recommend the Elements of Temperament Article by Joy Tiz on the realgsd site - really informative and I've already identified a few traits in Max. Joy Tiz also has a site at http://www.dogbehave.com