I went to an exemption show today where I was sponsoring the prizes by doing portaits of the winners. As I was stood at the ringside I overheard the most amazing conversation & I just wondered if I am being naieve or is this sort of thing commonplace?
I man was telling his friend how he had just bought a 7 month old American bulldog bitch pup. He then got her out of his van & showed her off, she was a very friendly sociable bitch. He then went on to say she is due in season any minute, and he had been offered a £1000 a puppy from a dealer, he was going to mate her twice a year & earn £20,000 from her until he had got a few bitch pups off her & increased his turnover. His words, not mine!!!!
Has the world gone mad, what is it coming to? This was a t a small rural village country show, not some heaving metropolis. Has anyone else heard of anything like it? I was horrified.

Hi sam

No it's not unusual a woman near me has a WHITE(well off white)GSD

It is three & has had 13 puppies

She has her own stud dog & is going to breed four more litters to register at the KC & then the alternate litters with the Dog Lovers people

She has kept a bitch to breed off next seaon & register with the Dog Lovers

None of the dogs are X rays or Haemophillia tested as WHITe gsd's don't have these problems!!

Both her original dogs are nervous & the bitch she kept is worse

Two have already gone through rescue

At £400.00+ a time it is a nice little earner!

OMG!! I KNOW it must happen, but it just SHOCKs me no end reading that. at SEVEN MONTHS even. That poor dog is just a baby herself!

I think I must be naive as I thought most of that was pretty much wiped out in this country:(

Sadly not & because the Kennel system is based on trust it never will be

Very very sad

what "kennel system"? Are you refering to the KC? I don't actually see the relevamce here:Confused:

Should have put Kennel Club System is based on trust ie breeders giving true information!

I have to say the kennel club must shoulder some of the blame, I reported a wellknown breeder for falsely registering litters to fictious dogs but I was told
there was nothing to be done,! I was more than a little surprised. We register our dogs
with KC so that they are credible, but if there is no way of enforceing the policies then they are not worth the paper they a written on sorry to say. I wish there were ways of making it more difficult to do this sought of thing. But unforfuneately
the new one ltter every 12 months policy is just sending the offenders under ground so to speak.

I have also had many dealings with the KC over the years. On one occassion, someone got hold of a rescue bitch (without papers and not from me I hasten to add) and the next thing she was churning out puppies every season. The owners had acquired paperwork from somewhere and the pups were sold as pedigree. When the KC were notified they said that there was nothing they could do at all.

The only sure method of identification is DNA, it will come eventually, but maybe not in this century

Leigh

I doubt that the Kennel Club would have anything to do with this as the pups won't be registered.

I don't know how they do it, but it's people like them who don't care about their dogs who don't have any problems withtheir puppies!!

I don't really know what can be done about this kind of thing, it's ok saying that we will have to register all our dogs pedigree and non-pedigree but these people would never use a register scheme.

Sorry Diane, do you mean the pups I mentioned ? Yes, they were registered. Yes, the KC were notified that the paperwork was dodgy and no, the KC did nothing about it

Leigh

I would guess Dianne was probably referring to my original posting about the am.bulldogs. Fail to see what the KC system has got to do with my original posting!!!!!!!! but as a new subject it has obviously got peoples interest.

Sam the reason the KC was mentioned was because dogs are supposed to be worth more with a KC, your man with the bulldogs was just the tip of the iceberg, and the only organisation that can do something about it is the KC, but they are sleeping partners, they aren't prepared to enforce their code of ethics, therefore
makeing it easier to the opportunists to make more money out of the pedirgee bitch, after all could you see people paying £1000.pounds for a heinz variety. So really the pedigree system for which the kennel club is responsible in part has a loop hole which can be used to exploit more money out of unsuspecting buyers and over breeding our poor bitches.
Perhaps we all need to be more vigilant and perhaps if we all pushed the kennel club to enforce their code of ethics then perhaps we can regain some form of decorum in the dog community, alas im sure it wont happen in mylife time.

If the bitch is 7 months old and he's going to mate from it, it won't be one before the pups are born so the pups won't be registered. Therefore don't you wonder what these dogs are going to be used for, not as nice sweet pets, I'm sure!!!

I did not mention the KC because they would be worth more as I do not believe that these will be KC reg.

This is only my opinion. What do others think?

This breed being not recognised by the KC, are really just the same as Heinz 57, paperwork wise I hasten to add. In my breed we had problems with someone who had gotten hold of a bitch and kept her daughters. they were selling from Northern Ireland to a commercial kennel in the north (the one who runs dog lovers registry). As some of the puppy owners joined are club, we were able to prove infringement of the KC code of Ethics, and they stopped registering for a while, but we were still getting rescues from this source, turns out they were registering from the Dog Lovers registry. One of the bitches has since changed ownership, and more litters were registered with the KC. All the rules in the world will not stop these people as they will find a way round. Only honest reputable breeders get inconvienienced, as in the 12 month between litters rule, suppose your bitch whelps just a tad early?

Why are there people willing to pay for designer puppies from such sources. I spend the year after a litter keeping in touch, and still on average one pup will come unstuck per litter due to change in circumstnces of the owner, or because the people found puppy ownership more hard work than they bargained for! Sometimes you have to take back (morally) a puppy you bred years down the line!

Opps. it has gone a fraction off topic hasn't it ! Sorry

I'm still with you on this one leigh!!!!

Yes I was talking about the original topic.

there seems to be a growing band of people all for doing dna and chipping the dog from which the dna comes from,i know chipping is not everyones idea of the way forward but as i have a breed that will bog off if they get the chance then i used it as some peace of mind, if everyone who bred had to have either a chip or tatoo along with dna then i feel it opens possibilities of stopping all the SECRET! litters that people have,the ones inbetween a year that go unregistered to pet homes,this way the dna could be checked as i believe even sisters have different dna,it would make it hard to pull a fast one.i feel the kennel club try but people dont like their options taken from them,if we're not willing to identify our dogs then the kc can't do a lot about it,

As both a responsible breeder (of shetland sheepdogs and rough collies) and someone who is actively involved with breed rescue, I was horrified to read this section of the notice board.
Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to "name and shame" people such as those who adopt an approach such as you overheard here. Anything that can be done to thwart this sort of irresponsible breeding and obvious disregard of an animal's welfare should be done.
I have recently heard of a disreputable "dealer" who on having his sheep all destroyed as a result of having been diagnosed with foot and mouth, promptly went over to Ireland and bought EIGHT litters of puppies and has been advertising them for sale here in Ayrshire. Many of the genuine dog people in the area have made it their business to spread the word and alert as many organisations to the true situation as possible. Even some prospective "purchasers" who have seen for themselves the situation are positively campaigning against this type of activity.

It would even be worth contacting the breed rescue organisation to alert them to the situation in order that they can be forewarned.

to be honest I can't imagine ABD's have a rescue. Are there even any registered in the uK yet?
This one was apparently registered with the "Dorset" (I think!!) KC. OK I realise that its just a club & has no recognition, I'm not daft, but has anyone else come across this? Its certainly out of juristriction of KC thats for sure!

Aileen,

I know exactly who you mean when you talk about the dealer in Ayrshire. I have actually reported him to the SSPCA and the papers he was advertising in. The last time I spoke to the SSPCA they told me that they and the police were both investigating him. Lets hope something will be done.

if you lived in the northeast we have a paper that comes out weekly,in the last few months its advertised pitbull pup for sale--wanted pit bull.etc,papers dont have a clue,and seem willing to advertise anything regardless,

why not give them (the paper)a ring & tell them the law, or report it to the advertising standards authority, its very simple to do. If they can't advertise 'em, then they can't sell 'em & they won't be so quick to breed 'em.

i've contacted the paper on more than one occasion to complain about the adds they sometimes place,the girls who usually take the messages for the paper aren't clued up on dogs at all,they seem horrified when theyre told about the law and promise to sort it out,i've even reported it to the rspca and they said they where keeping an eye on the situation!!!!!!they advertise irish staffords.with brags of powerful heavy muscled dogs etc---is there such a thing as an irish stafford?or is it a clever disguise,i hate to say this but in the north you can occasionally see pitbulls walking without a leash,sometimes very obviously just had a litter,its not the dogs fault its a worry who's hands they land up in.i dont follow to see where they go or confront them,i'm too busy hurrying my dog in a different direction.

Sought after breed by certain people.
On the peke sites one sees pups for over £2000, and the money the winners sell for abroad, are £30,000 to £47,000.
I have just come back from the World show and a CACIB winner owner asked $50,000 .for the dog.

Exactly....these would be KC registered pekes, yes? I don't think this situation applies in the case o the ABD I saw.

I am appauled to here this, I myself am a breeder (peke's) and any responsible breeder will tell you that breeding is not an income !

I spend more money or just break even on my puppies - they are KC registered and I provide a KC 3 generation pedigree with them to show the new owners how many litter my bitch has had. The KC will not register more than 1 litter a year from the same bitch so this person is in for a surprise !

If anyone states that they are making a fortune off their puppies - somethig is drastically wrong ! Have the puppies been vacinnated ? wormed ? socialised ? do they look healthy ? these are things to look out for

Donna

Welcome to the Forum Donna

Leigh