I'm looking for help/advice re training Gem, my first dog.

She is 10 months old English Springer Spaniel in her 4th home. She WILL be with me for life, [ tho I sometimes think she'll wear me out sooner rather than later !!! ;o)) ]

She was house trained only during first 7 months, learned sit, stay & come with her last owner.
When I take her to training she sees the instructor as a good source of treats and will work so/so for them. Also at home she will sit, come etc for treats and usually just because I ask her to, but mostly not interested when we are out, (turns her nose up at liver, etc. which she loves at home!!). She seems at least as happy just to have a fuss!

I have had her a month and she is doing OK. I appreciate that she has made good progress, she knows 2 whistle commands and no longer pulls on the lead, but I would very much appreciate some tips.

I can keep her at stay for over a minute with no lead in a field, as long as I am right next to her.
We walk in a cornfield which is criss-crossed with tracks and she usually keeps a good eye on me and finds me when I hide.

However, I am struggling to keep her attention and when she gets her nose down she will not come until she is ready. Not good as I want to work her as a gun dog!!

She CAN heel nicely, but would rather not!
She will recall to the whistle & voice about 60%, unless she sees game etc when selective deafness sets in.

My main concerns are to keep her attention, recall and heel.

Any advice would be gratefully welcomed.

Hi Alan.
Are you looking to shoot over her or just use her for beating ? You have not mentioned if she will retrieve ? If she does, then here is the answer to some of your problem !
I would stop "treat" training immediately. Play is a much better reward.

From what you have described, she is doing remarkably well for a dog that has been passed around
I think that you will have a problem to keep her attention when she is free running.
But this is a general problem, not unique to her. She has had ten months of self hunting by the sound of it and that will be hard to overcome.

Have you got any local Gundog training classes ? If you need any help in locating one get back to me.

Leigh

Leigh,

thanks for the help, I am desperate to get it right 'cos she's had way too rough a start and is just totally adorable.

Ultimately I want to both beat and shoot over her. Initially I will just take her beating then move on to retreive for other guns, (mostly on account I only shoot as a guest at pres.), then to work with me when I shoot.

I have done very little retreive training, wanting to get the basics done first. However she is desparate to go when we throw a dummy. A week ago we took her with a friend and his Labs to the 'duck lake', it was all I could do to hold her back when he threw dummies for the Labs. When her turn came, she was straight into the water like a bullet, picked up the bird and came out. Then spent 5 minutes running back and forth as if to say "well if you can catch me, you can have it !!!" ;o)

I would appreciate help with local gundog trainers. The trainer I go to for basics does gundogs also, but Gem seems to think of her as a vending machine.

whilst I'm at it, the other problem is that she is hell on legs with ANY other dog if there is food around. VERY dominant behaviour. I can take food out of her mouth and she will now wait with her nose on a chew until I tell her to take it.

well, I did say I was missing a challenge in life!!

Thanks in anticipation
Alan

HI Alan,

As Leigh has said, you are both doing really well for a rescue dog who has had a lot of previous homes.

I have a springer and a lot of traits you mention, I see in her. She is completely mad on dummies and will do anything for a retrieve. It was hard work but we have finally got there in the end. She will now wait whilst a dummy is being thrown, will go directly out to get it and bring it back to hand.

Maybe you shouldn't teach the retrieve in water just yet. Try doing it in your hallway so she can't go anywhere else. Stand at one end and throw your dummy, send her to retrieve and she hasn't really got anywhere she can go. When she is perfect at that, move outside and try her on short, simple retrieves, building it up.

I'm not so sure about how you can solve the dominance over food but I am sure someone will be able to help.

Helen

Hi Alan, I know nothing of training gundogs but would have thought that in one or more of her previous 'homes' she has been trained to fight for food, may be not intentionaly but certainly sucsessfully. Now your thinking clever clogs how do I cure her, and frankly I don't know. If you are able to take food from her I would have thought her behaviour with other dogs can be improved in time as you get more and more control. I'm sure someone else will have the answer but it may include titbits, something you have been advised not to use. Thats a lot of words about nothing, but I wish you well, it's nice to hear of a dog falling on it's feet at last.

Right, first things first !

Have you got a tracking line or long lead (piece of washing line will do). From now on GEM does not get ANY retrieves at all, unless she is on the line. It is a very good sign that she wants the retrieve, but you must guarantee that she brings it back to you EVERY time. This will also help with the recall and her steadiness too.
Don't over do the retrieving, no more than two or three a day. Make sure that she sits for you to throw or place the retrieve. Then with the lead on, send her to fetch. Make sure that you have a firm grip on the lead (careful of ropeburn though) and as soon as she has a firm grip on the dummy, recall whistle her and start pulling her back to you by the lead. When you have the dummy, then give her lots of praise. It will take a little while to get used to pulling her in on the lead, but stick with it, as it gets results. I think that as she is a bit over the top with food, that is even more reason not to reward her with food. If you can make her believe that You are the best reward, it will make your job a lot easier in the long run

Feel free to email me, if you would like to chat about this some more. Can you also let me know which area you are in , then I will find you a Gundog Club.

Leigh
Whywillow@hotmail.com

Hi Alan. I completely agree with everything Leigh has said. More problems are caused by doing too many retrieves than not enough! Do plenty of steadiness exercises. Sit your puppy up and just toss a dummy around him whilst not allowing him to break stay. Please remember, you’re not going to make a retriever out of a Spaniel, they have separate functions on the field. The retriever sitting quietly beside its handler while the Spaniel is questing. It is a hunter of game and as such is a busy little dog, hunting up any cover it can find! Your job is to get him to hunt for you and not for himself. A spaniel CAN retrieve and a retriever CAN hunt but to expect one to excel at the finer points of the others work is to expect rather a lot. A Spaniel beating or hunting up retrieves in heavy cover is hard to beat and a retriever remembering the positions of birds down and retrieving them to hand is where they are unbeatable!
Incidentally, I never use food to train a working Gundog, I know others who do but I want mine to work for me, not food.
Enjoy the training; it's great fun even if a bit frustrating at times!!!

Regards, John

Thankyou all for your support / advice so far.

I'm having a minor crisis with Gem at the moment, she has decided to 'forget' everything!

She has been walking fairly well on the lead until day before yesterday. I spent time with her playing in our criss-cross field and she improved once she had run around enough to get a bit tired.
She even walked to heel without a lead, albeit up a tyre track, (which she would normally just push past in.). The walk home was pretty good too.

Since then she has deteriated.
On this morning's walk she was pulling on the lead again until after about 200 yards from home, she was back to laying flat and scrabbling with the lead dead tight, (first time for 2 weeks).
I turned around and walked back home with her at heel - without needing to say a word !!!!

She is, I guess, just pushing to see if she can be top dog.

I wonder if the whole thing has been complecated by us looking after the 2 Labs from next door. They still live there, but we feed and walk them.
One is dominant and puts Gem in her place, the other isn't.

Since Saturday, I have been less 'hard', on the advice of the dog trainer I go to, with the intention of doing away with the check chain, again on her advice.

The big questions are
1. should I return to the more forceful, (but no not yanking her around), regime?
and 2. Would starting retreive training hinder the basics or help by giving her something else to think about?

John,
Thanks for the reminder. I had been advised about the difference but had forgotten.

Gem will mainly be working as a hunter, with a small amount of retreiving. Or at my current strike rate, VERY little retrieving! ;o)
I don't intend using her for ducks at all, so will only need to shoot over her 4 or 5 times a season max

I know some of you folks may be a bit concerned that I'm out of my depth.
Well although I am, I do know that a Spaniel is hard work & will be at least 2 before she can come out working for real.
The extra work I need to do, will be as nothing if I can make up for the first 9 months of her life.
I just need a little hand holding to get me through her 'teens'

Alan, we do not think that you are out of your depth at all ! In fact I admire you for having the courage to ask for help. Never forget that EVERY ONE OF US started out knowing nothing We have all made and learnt by our mistakes (well, most of them ANYway) and we are all still learning. We are happy to help you out if we can.

Leigh

I will answer your email, as soon as I get five minutes

Hi Alan
First of all may I say I have absolutely no experience of training gundogs as such, although I have experience of training dogs so my suggestions are based on training any dog rather than aimed at the specialised training for a working dog. I would be tempted to go back to the basics for the moment and just to do things you know she can and will do, and make absolutely sure that you always end on a very good note, even if all she has done is look at you when you have told her to, or sat on command. Try not to issue any command unless you are in a position to insist that she obeys it immediately so that she doesn't learn she can get away with things.

Instead of thinking how much she has deteriorated in the last day think back to when you got her, and how well she has come on since then. Personally I don't think I would revert to the 'hard' routine, although it may take a little time for her to realise that you still mean what you say even though your methods have changed.

You really have come a long way in the month you have had her, and she has to get over the previous 4 owners. Give yourself a pat on the back and take things slowly.

Joan

Hi Alan, when we post to a question we never know the experience level of the poster so we tend to assume no experience so if we appear to be talking down to you then I apologise, but as Leigh says, we all have to start somewhere. (And that includes answering a posting)
Gem appears to have had a hard start to life so it's no wonder she is a little mixed up.

Don't mix hardness in handling with firmness. There's no place for hardness in my training but I can be firm when I have to be. Leave no room for doubt. If you say sit then you mean sit NOW not sometime soon. You can never tell a dog off for not doing something if it doesn’t KNOW what is required or, if it is afraid to comply! Always break things down into the smallest parts and train each independently. Then, when each bit is learnt, gradually, bring each part together one bit at a time.

If things go wrong (like the heelwork) try to work out what's different. Have you encouraged her to work forward, hunt up in front? Often a dog "Learns" something we didn’t intend because our intentions were not clear to our dog. Never be afraid to take a step back and start again. dog training seems to be two steps forward followed by one step back. (Or in some cases the other way round!!!) I would definatly avoid training Gem when the Labs are in attendance, at training time NOTHING should disturb either gem's or your concentration!

Regards, John

Hi

Don't know much abot gundog training, but i like John's advice.

I wanted to mention that there a learniing plateau that many dogs reach, often after about 6 weeks of learning a command/situation; they appear to be almoxt stupid but if you gently keep at it or even stop your requirements for a few days, the dog usuallly ends up better than ever. I have noticed this in my own dogs and it is well documented by several differenet trainers, John Fisher explains a bit about it in "Dogwise".

I don't feel personally that there is ever a need for hard handlng, with knowledge and help almost every dog can be taught not to pull; the secret is not so much to stop it pulling, as to make it really brillinat to be with you.

I am starting to train a rescue BSD for a friend, at 2 years old he was left crated all day and no training, he is starting to walk very well now on the lead with the helpl of clicker training. I know this is not a gundog type of trainng (or is it?!) but it works very well. You do use titbits to start but can then phase them out so tha tthedog is indeed workng for you, not titbits.

A trainer I know took her Toller to Crufts this year and the dog was clicker trained, and quick-smart in spite of having as she called it short fat ginger legs!!!

I admit not tonknow much about gundog training, buthoope my thought s may add toyour decisions and wish you luck. I am sure you will have rewards and succes with your dog.

Best wihses
Lindsay

Lindsay,
I honestly do not think that Alan meant Hard Handling , I think that what he meant, and as John say's, was FIRM handling and this is something that most animals need. I knew what you meant Alan
Clicker Training is nothing new. It was used during the war to train the forces dogs I believe.

Leigh

Will email you today, sorry

Again many thanks for sticking with me, I am finding your comments VERY useful.

John, no apologies needed, firstly cos I know next to nothing anyway, but mostly the tone of ALL these comments has been very positive, so I certainly didn't feel anyone was 'talking down' to me. Given the nature of these boards, not knowing the person you are helping, seems that to assume no knowledge is by far the best policy.

Both last night and this morning we took Gem out on her own, a vast improvement.
we walked arond our criss-cross field for several minutes with her heeling well both on and off the lead. THANKYOU all so very much for helping me through.

The poor Labs are looking very confused now, Gem is very jealous when I give them any fuss and they have been walked by my wife rather than me!!!
Ah well if I take them out separately I'll just get fitter and slimmer sooner ;o))

Alan

Hi Leigh

Email is a difficult medium sometimes and I hope very much I didnot come across as critical to Alan; I did not mean to be at all. I admire very much his dedication with Gem.

However, it was mentioned by Alan that his trainer suggested he train less hard and give up the choke chain. This made me feel that perhaps if he is using such methods (or has been advised to) then I would, yes, count this as hard handling. NOT necessarily being critical at all but refer to a situation.

I was going to ask Alan whether he was using the choke chain to train Gem when the dog was pulling/scrabbling on the walk he mentioned, as this is a classic situation of choke chain use; the dog pulls in excitement for goin gout but also is iin pain so tends to adoopt this kind of posture; going home the excitement is not there so neither is the problem.

I was trying to help Alan, and re-reading I still believe I came across that way.

Of course clicker traiining is nothing new; I was simply illlustrating the fact that it is possible to train a difficult dog without a choke chain.,and thus give Alan some encouragement with my own experience . We all have different methods. More people are using clicker traiinng now and it does seem effective. I was a bit sceptical til I tried it <G>

I stress again that I was not being critical of Alan; the words "hard handling" were his words,or those of his trainer, not mine, and surely if he had meant"firm" he would have said that? If he had originally been jerking and yanking the dog as is the usual way with choke chain traiining, then I would agree with his trainer (and Alan?) that that would be classified as "hard".

Lindsay,

Yes we all have our own ideas on training methods and what works for one person and there dog may not work for the next person and there dog.

I use a slip chain on my Border collie and a full slip on my Labrador ( choke chain, god I hate that name ) and do not have any problems or guilt with using them.

As long as you know how to use the slip chain the correct way and yes there is a right way and a wrong way to use them then I do not see why there is a problem.

I will not train either of my dog's using food treat's but that is my choice.

Would also like to say to anyone who is looking to train there dog's if you see a training class and like the trainers methods etc don't be put of if that trainer is not registered with the APDT ( Association of pet dog trainers ) as there are many good training classes who are not with the APDT.

Karen

Hi karen

I understand what you say aboutinstructors, however the reason I recommend the APDT is because I know many of the trainers and feel they are good with dog and owner. Let me stress straight away that there are, I am sure, many many good, indeed fantastic trainers who arenot such members, however the generral public do not have any yardstick to measure agianst.

There is one instructor who is with a very well known organisation (and no I can't tell you who he is - slander and all that) who has killed a dog withhis rough tmethods. His organisation is highly respected and the public wouldthink it was fine.
I expect many members jof that organisation are also great trainers. However I feel confident recommending the APDT. Apart from anyting else the trainers have to continually update their understanding of dog training and behaviour.

Howmany instructors do we kknow of who use jerk and pull, jerk and pull, shout and throw a beanbag, jerk and pull....well I know loads and wouldnt put my dog through it!!

Personally I don't agre withchoke chains because in most hands that is exactly what theydo - choke!! Also I have not met a dog that cannot be trained without a choke chain. So, why use them? I feel that many owner suse them to jerk and punish without training first!!

I understand that many people willl differ wiht me, and that's OK, so long as I am alowed to put my ideas forward. Its not a problem fo rme and I admire your straightforwardness and honesty Karen.

Best wishes
lindsay

Hi Lindsay. No problem .

As you said we all have our own tried and tested methods of training dogs. At my classes I am quick to stress that when you are training your dog you will be given countless bits of advice and it is up to you to interpret what you are told and adapt it to suit your dogs needs. We all know that what works for one dog will not work for another. The beauty of a board like this is that there are a lot of knowledgeable people here and more importantly, they are all happy to share that knowledge.

Leigh

Karen, I call it a check chain And I totally agree with your comments about Instructors too.

Hi Leigh

Yes, that's what I like about this board too; gives us all a chance tohave our say!! And I think we're all pretty well behaved on here and don't get personal, it's good to hear different views.

As you say Leigh, it's no problem

Best wishes to you Leigh
Lindsay

Lindsey,

I certainly didn't consider you were criticising, having re-read Leigh I don't think she was really concered in that area (?).

To clarify, I was failing miserably to get anywhere with the pulling, (which was every time regardless of direction etc.). A gun from the syndicate helped me by using a gundog style slip lead, he pulled her back twice and repeated no and heel many times and she started to respond. With the 1 exception, she has been pretty good since. May be worth mentioning that he never uses any other type of lead, and can take his dogs anywhere new or old without a lead. Unfortunately I am not near enough to him/others and holidays etc to get consistent advice.

The choke chain was suggested as more a noise than strangle tool, by someone else, as Gem still wants to be in front and I hadn't been getting far with stopping every time she pulled forward. 20 minutes to cover 150 yards was a bit daft!

I have had some pretty unpalatable advice from colleagues, but am not convinced that this is actually based on knowledge. I reckon if I'm not good enough to train her without getting violent then I'll give up.

The 'hard' regime was pretty much telling her off, as it were, everytime she did wrong. I wasn't very good at that, so probably didn't convince her either!!

I have decided to use a slip lead now rather than the chain and I am trying to always use tone rather than volume. (See, you can teach an old dog new tricks ;o)) ) and praise her for good stuff and say just no for the 'bad'.

I'm beginning to get the message that I may have been expecting too much from her, ie that she should walk to heel all the way to the fields, about 5 minutes.
Though if I allow her to get ahead then, am I negating the heel training later?

Please keep your comments coming, they are ALL appreciated.
Alan

You come over as a very caring dog owner, and although it is of no real help I would like to say that before you 'tell your dog off' do be sure she knows what it is you are asking of her, we are all guilty at times of thinking that dogs speak and understand english, they don't, they understand dog and it's up to us to try and meet them half way by trying to understand their way of comunication.

Thankyou Jackie, I'll try.
It's a good job she doesn't speak English, the way I rabbit on when we're out alone.!!!!

Hi Lindsay, Gundog work brings it’s own set of problems. Because our dogs are often working in cover, very often having to jump a fence directly into cover, the risk of a collar getting caught up and hanging the dog is very real. So much so that working gundogs and working sheepdogs are by law allowed to go collar less. This means we have nothing to clip a lead to, hence the gundog slip, a rope slip lead. As both you and Karen know, to teach a young to walk to heel is the work of a moment, tackled right from the first time you take it out. You just don’t allow it to go wrong! Heavy checks on the lead are not needed. The problems start when a dog has got a little older without learning this lesson and because of circumstances beyond his control this is what has happened in Alan’s case. The type of heelwork again is different. In obedience you need close control in obedience for no more than about 5 minutes or so and this includes about turns and stops to break it up and provide interest for the dog. With us on a walked up shoot the walk-up could take half an hour with the dog only getting very limited respite from the tedium! Not only that but the dog must concentrate to the extent of not missing the fall of a bird or dummy ten minutes or more after starting to walk.

Alan, dogs pull for a number of reasons. Excitement, impatiens, dominance are all good reasons in a dogs eyes. Your dog is of course working on your left, (unless you have a very good reason to change from the normal) If Gem gets in front do a smart left about turn or left turn and go back the other way. Your actions are saying to your dog, “Don’t get in front because you don’t know where I’m going!” the turning towards your dog is crowding, literally saying, “Keep back, I’m coming through!”

In the early stages of training a dog works for it’s self. It fetches the dummy because that’s what it wants to do but gradually all this changes. It starts to work for you and it’s at this point when the training starts to really take off. If you are training in a public place, try to pick a time when there will not be too many dog walkers around to distract Gem. (The pouring rain is a good time!!!) And try to work Gem in as many different places as possible, (although Spaniels are better than Labradors in that respect, take a Labrador to a new place and it says, (We don’t do that here dad!”) And most important, never go training if your not in a good mood, nothing good will come out of it!

Regards, John

Hi Alan

i've just re-read everything pertaining to your training with Gem, including your last post, and I agree with Jackie, you do sound very kind and caring. Perhaps you could indeed get in with a local gundog club, didn't Leigh say she could recommend one? Then you will be able to talk to other owners and son on, and share experiences. I think you have had good advice, so far, and John an dLeigh especially have given you some great ideas .

I remember I had a friend with a ESS who had terrible troulbe with her, she was from working stock and would never recall, or heel or do anything, but I think that it was because she didn't have a job to do. So I understand how difficult itmust be.

However, think how proud you will be of Gem one day; after all that hard work, just remember that Rome wasn't built in a day. )

Anuway best wishes Alan

lindsay

Hi John

I agree that rope slip leads are definitely the best fo rgundog work, I know one APDT trainer who is a working gundog man and uses them, in fact we all had a discussion about it!

It is indeed harder for an older dog tolearn (or even unlearn) and more difficult for the owner. That's why earlier I mentioned Olllie, the rescue dog I am teaching, as he was totally untrained and over 2 now.

I am teaching Ollie to walk on a loose lead close to my side rather than the obedience heelwork as I feel that is fine for a pet dog, does gundog traiiining mean a similar type of thing - i.e.close and under control but not "heel" as such, is the case? So long as the dog does not surge forward?

Best wishes
lindsay

Hi Lindsay,
Well I can't speak for John, but we train that the dog is close enough to heal but not so close that it interfere's with your movement. If you are carrying a gun, the last thing that you need to do is trip up ! Also, if your arms are full of game ,then the dog will need to walk off of you. If you have trained it to walk stuck to your leg then the dog will become very anxious if there is a barrier in the way.
Incidently, I will use a check chain on an adult dog if I feel it warrants it.In certain situations , a rope lead just does not do the job. People assume that a check chain can only be used violently, as you know this is not the correct way to use it

Leigh

Hi Leigh

Thanks for clarifying how the dog should walk on a shoot, sounds sensible, as you say, you do not want to trip up when carrying a gun!!! Could be 'orrible

Best wihses
lindsay

LOL yeh, just a bit

Leigh

A friend of mine likes her dogs to walk with their heads level with her leg to keep them well out of the way, whereas her husband, who is a keeper, likes his dogs to walk with their shoulder level with his leg so they can have the best possible field of view to mark anything which falls. In all cases the dogs work just a little wider than an obedience dog to give freedom of movement without tripping them up. As Leigh says, that could be a disaster! I personally like "The Flower" a little forward but then, I don't shoot, (I'd probably hit the beaters!) I just pick up so I like her to see what's happening around her!

Regards, John

Hi there:
I found this web site and saw the posted message and I am looking for help with Gun Dog training. I live in North Yorkshire and have a 4 month old pup (father was an Int FTCH. I am keen for beating rather than shooting, but my change my mind latter once I get involved. I do not want to get into bad habits so any help pointers, books etc would of of great help. I have been told that I should get along to some beats with pup, kept on lead so he can get used to the day. ANy advise on this would also be of big help

So far I can call him on a whistle (More often than not). On adviose I have started zig zaging walking patterns useing arms to indicate chatge of direction.

My dog loves to smell scent when out walking, and will retrive when in the mood which is not very often

Hello,
It's good to hear people taking on dogs like this. My friend Rory has taken on two ESS both from Blue Cross, one had been found half starved and very scared, the owner did not want her as she was "gunshy". The little dog was supposed to be untrainable and chewed everything rather than retrieve it, according to his previous owner. Both are happy well balanced dogs which regularly beat on two shoots, and both will retrieve to hand! Just shows it can be done, keep us informed how you get on?

Yes, it is good isn't it Polly !
Over the years I have had hundreds of GSP's come to me because they are supposedly Gunshy, don't hunt, don't point, out of control or just generally 'useless' !. After a little education they have all gone on to lead happy, fulfilled working lives in one discipline or another.
I am sure that Alan will get a get the best out of Gem, given a little time and patience.

Leigh

WOW, I didn't expect this much help!! Thanks again.

Lindsey, I'm beginning to realise how good Gem 'really' is, and starting to feel proud already.

Introduced her to a new slip lead this evening, she pushed her head straight in as if to say well that's what it's for, lets go.!!!

LOL, me thinks that Gem is also very pleased with the way that YOU are coming on Alan.
Didn't take her long to get you trained did it !!

Leigh

Well done Alan, I'm convinced you will get there in the end. Sounds like a willing lady you have there, given time you will wonder what you were concerened about and posting on here with advice for others. All the best keep us posted. There will be hickups but you know where to turn for help, I've learned a lot about gundogs too.

Yippee Alan and Gem, that's a really good sign!

You must be feeling pretty happy just now

Best wishes
lindsay

Hi Lindsay,

You could say that!!!!

isn't it wonderful what a little help can do? !

We went out and did some heel work earlier, after about 2 minutes of these turns without warning, she was almost perfect for the rest of the session :o)) AND walked most of the way home nicely. Tralaaa.

If I can just keep ahead of her, we're going do all right!!

Next project is to convince her that jumping the fence over to next door isn't as good as going through the gate!! Although it really is true that their grass is greener at the moment!!

Thanks again all.

Alan

Well done Alan, with a bitch, next doors grass will always be greener:p I've got good news today, my pup has found out how to do a down:o Was trying to teach a show stand at the time:o Hay ho back to the drawing board:D

Jackie,

So good to know the tribulations you experieced folk have, helps to put everything into perspective.

I hope your dog is getting the message again !! btw, what sort of dog(s) do you have?

As I watched her run around the meadow yesterday, I was wondering how she would view being a show dog. I can just imagine the look on her face, as she thought 'yea, right! You think I'm going stand still THAT long?' ;o)

We are doing pretty well again, just need to convince her that coming when she's called is a good idea!!!!

Alan

Hi Alan, don't think experience comes into it realy, every dog has different problems and my present puppy keeps inventing new ones that I've never come across before. Yes thank you we have sorted downs from stands, now we have decided that if a human touches your nose the world is about to come to an end, oh! the joys of dog training. My lot are Elkhounds, well know for their independence, & not standing still in the show ring, I must be mad when I think of all the nice obliging breeds there must be that I could have chosen. Never mind I always loved a challenge and there is no hurry as long as we get it right by the time he is a veteren. I'm realy pleased about the progress you have made with your bitch, no I'm not I'm green with envy:D LOL

Lovely Alan, do keep in touch and let the board know how you are doing with your Gem.

Sounds as if things are almost improving by the day, even though I said abov e that Rome wasn't built in one LOL!!

Best wishes
Lindsay

Hi Jackie, you don't fool me, I bet you'd still choose Elkhounds if you had to start all over again!!!!!
I know what you mean though, I was set to wait till one of the syndicate members bred from his Black Lab. She and the prospective dad are THE most lovable of dogs and she can find a bird in any sort of cover, nose like radar!!!

Thanks Lindsay, though I am beginning to think that I should stop saying that we are making progress! She was a little so and so yesterday!!!
She keeps getting grass seeds in her eye, so we are trying to keep her in the meadow, (been cut), rather than the corn field. Guess where she snuck into? And took forever to come back :o(

Still as someone mentioned earlier, you don't get a Saniel if you want an easy time! ;o))

I'm off now to try and find out what an Elkhound looks like!

Later
Alan

LOL ...Guess where the Bunnies are Alan. Glad Gem is being a normal springer.

Leigh

You are sooooo right Leigh, I am eagerly awaiting the 2002 season to see her work 'for real'. :o)

Yes, me to Alan. I have a new dog and although we have had him out rough shooting, I can't wait to get him out on "proper" game...and see if he is as good as I think he is
Did you have any luck with the contacts I gave you or do you need some more ?

Leigh

Leigh,

I have to admit to being a bit slow:-(
I did try searching for websites and didn't find anything, I WILL phone soon!

4 John W.

Leigh suggested that you may be able to point me towards suitable clubs in the North Bucks area?

Alan

Alan, if you click on John's name you can access his profile and his email addy.

Leigh
Did you get the telephone numbers that I emailed to you?

Thanks Leigh, I did try but email is hidden. Hopefully he will see these messages.

First number was incorrect, very nice lady but nothing to do with Spaniels !!

Second rang but not answered, I'll try later. 3rd one not free to speak till next week, so will call again then.

Alan

Jackie,
I've just found a picture of an Elkhound - they are gorgeous!
Now I definately don't beleive you'd give them up

Hi Alan, I'm just about to send you an email with a phone number. Most of the clubs I know are Retriever clubs and don't handle Spaniels but this one may be of use to you.

Regards, John